A Question of Ethics : Chanakya, Dharma, Ashoka

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MaddyO

@MaddyO

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Maddy

Great points raised. :)

About Dharma telling Ashoka not to reveal their identities - when he is jailed for the arrow attack on Bindusara - I think if I remember correctly, Chanakya had already made it clear in their village only, before they left for Pataliputra that while both mother and son would go to the city, but they would stay apart and not acknowledge each other.

Anyway, the important point here is that both C and D agree that their identities must be kept secret. In Thursday's episode, D revealed another reason she had kept their identities hidden - she had believed that B didn't love her and was responsible for the sorrowful lives of D and A. But in the Shiva puja and later in the interaction between B and D, D finally discovers B is not at fault and still loves her though he thinks she is dead. But again the earlier dilemma of being unable to reveal her identity due to security issues and the uncertainty of the future of Magadh.

Maddy, I agree C would have got any suitable person to sit on the throne. For instance Chandragupta MAurya. Also I like the manner in which C is teaching / training Ashoka. By playing mind games with him and manipulating him to think that he is himself responsible for a particular course of action. For instance, the way C has managed to convince A to stay back and reveal the demon's secret. :)

Your last point is interesting - why doesn't C take Prince Dhrupad under his wings? What could be the reason?

So, you feel Subhashree will be another negative character. LOL Let's see :)

I liked how A got around the promise he had given his mom that he would never use violence against anyone by convincing Balgovinda to thrash Sushim. LOL A has the common sense to get around tricky situations.

Radhika your thread is rocking 😃 So many wonderful posts
Very busy but just wanted to reply to your point about Chankya telling A & D

C told A & D after he had saved freed him from jail on attempt on B's life.
Remember when A is arrested from his home and he escapes - he comes home to find D not there. Thinking that C has also arrested her he goes after them. While D goes to find C cos she knows only he can free A. This is when C tells her to nurse B as he was in bad condition. C does not let on that A had escaped!

Later when A comes over does all the fracas and to escape arrest goes hiding into the tree.

D is the one who first takes vachan from A not to reveal she is his mother and is around.

It is only later C takes promise from D - after he tells both are going to Pataliputra with him.
A & D go to Pataliputra after Ashoka is freed from charges but is ordered to pay "50 pan" as damages - a ruse of C to take him to Pataliputra.

By this time D has come to realize why C was asking for anonymity on her part so she also agrees.

I wonder if D will now want to reveal herself to B cos she knows the truth.

BTW : the new sweet queen might be joker of the pack - she will be kept sugary sweet only to reveal her hand later for her son's future.

PS : I hope they keep Ashoka character in check - do not let him turn into annoying prachy all knowing smug typical bratty tv kids. So I like it when C and B scold A and keep him in check! Much needed for Ashoka and viewers 😆

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RadhikaS0

@RadhikaS0

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Radhika your thread is rocking 😃 So many wonderful posts
Very busy but just wanted to reply to your point about Chankya telling A & D

C told A & D after he had saved freed him from jail on attempt on B's life.
Remember when A is arrested from his home and he escapes - he comes home to find D not there. Thinking that C has also arrested her he goes after them. While D goes to find C cos she knows only he can free A. This is when C tells her to nurse B as he was in bad condition. C does not let on that A had escaped!

Later when A comes over does all the fracas and to escape arrest goes hiding into the tree.

D is the one who first takes vachan from A not to reveal she is his mother and is around.

It is only later C takes promise from D - after he tells both are going to Pataliputra with him.
A & D go to Pataliputra after Ashoka is freed from charges but is ordered to pay "50 pan" as damages - a ruse of C to take him to Pataliputra.

By this time D has come to realize why C was asking for anonymity on her part so she also agrees.

I wonder if D will now want to reveal herself to B cos she knows the truth.

BTW : the new sweet queen might be joker of the pack - she will be kept sugary sweet only to reveal her hand later for her son's future.

PS : I hope they keep Ashoka character in check - do not let him turn into annoying prachy all knowing smug typical bratty tv kids. So I like it when C and B scold A and keep him in check! Much needed for Ashoka and viewers 😆

Maddy

My head is still swirling from all the ABCDs in your post 😆

D was maintaining anonymity ever since she came to nurse B.

I think at the time she didn't want to reveal herself to B because she was of the opinion that he had deserted her after marriage, got her father killed and even attempted to take her life. If A had told the truth in court and D had to come up to give witness, B might have recognized her and that might have created problems for her. Hence, she may have asked A to keep her identity secret.

I missed episodes in between. Did C never ask her to keep her identity a secret while she was attending on B? (Before the prison scene I mentioned ^^^ )

D now knows B loves her but is still reluctant to reveal herself because she doesn't want to upset the status quo. She doesn't know how B will accept her and A. She doesn't want A to get involved in the political conspiracies in Pataliputra.

Somewhere I still feel she is not yet ready to accept A becoming a part of the political cauldron in P. She is happy he is bonding with his father and she is happy to be close to her husband. But she is not yet ready for the next step.

But she is hopeful of an eventual reconciliation with B because she says to Shiva that she recognizes His hand in everything that is happening and she is prepared now to accept it all because it is what is willed by God.

You may be right about SS. She may be already evil or she may later get drawn into some conspiracy against B/D/A thru jealousy or insecurity perhaps.

Have stopped watching, so no idea of what's happening right now. :)

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MaddyO

@MaddyO

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Maddy

My head is still swirling from all the ABCDs in your post 😆

D was maintaining anonymity ever since she came to nurse B.

I think at the time she didn't want to reveal herself to B because she was of the opinion that he had deserted her after marriage, got her father killed and even attempted to take her life. If A had told the truth in court and D had to come up to give witness, B might have recognized her and that might have created problems for her. Hence, she may have asked A to keep her identity secret.

I missed episodes in between. Did C never ask her to keep her identity a secret while she was attending on B? (Before the prison scene I mentioned ^^^ )

D now knows B loves her but is still reluctant to reveal herself because she doesn't want to upset the status quo. She doesn't know how B will accept her and A. She doesn't want A to get involved in the political conspiracies in Pataliputra.

Somewhere I still feel she is not yet ready to accept A becoming a part of the political cauldron in P. She is happy he is bonding with his father and she is happy to be close to her husband. But she is not yet ready for the next step.

But she is hopeful of an eventual reconciliation with B because she says to Shiva that she recognizes His hand in everything that is happening and she is prepared now to accept it all because it is what is willed by God.

You may be right about SS. She may be already evil or she may later get drawn into some conspiracy against B/D/A thru jealousy or insecurity perhaps.

Have stopped watching, so no idea of what's happening right now. :)

LOL ok no more abcd 😆😆 You are right Dharma did have distrust about Bindusar and did not want to reveal herself & Ashok to him.

If I remember correctly, Chankya just told Dharma that Bindusara's life was in grave danger and he trusted only her to take care of him. Chankya told her she has to do this as his dasi. As Chanakya took Dharma to Bindusar's bedside - Dharma saw Mir Khursan also there so she took veil since then.

When Dharma was in darbar as a witness, she was asked to show face by Mir and luckily just that moment news came that Bindusar had gained consciousness. So next time Dharma was to be present as witness Chankya replaced her with his spy. Not just Bindusar but Dharma was afraid that Mir will see her face and recognize her. Also at that time even Ashok did not know it was his mother, he might have said something accidentally.

Radhika you missed watching a beautiful scene between Chanakya & Dharma yesterday. Bindusaar sees leadership qualities in Ashok and feels he is wasted working in stables and should be sent to the Raj-shala. Chanakya supports this whole heartedly while Amatya Khalantak, Helena, Sushim are very upset. Helena says to Bindusar but Ashok works in stables and to counter her and Amatya - Chankya proposes that Ashok should stay in the palace otherwise he will feel inferior in school, Bindusar agrees much to Helena's annoyance. 😆

When Dharma hears of this she is concerned that Ashok will learn warfare and follow the path of violence, so she goes to meet Chanakya with her worries. Chankya requests her not to stand in Ashok's way as he has created this place for himself on his own merit.

In a beautiful scene Chankya questions Dharma what she means by non violence? If it comes with anxiety, fear, cowardice, helplessness can one say it is non-violence? He asks Dharma if she will value such non-violence? Chankya tells Dharma the kind of society she dreams of is possible one day - but what if the path to achieving that goes thru the path of violence first? What if for that state to come those who are plotting for the throne have to be dealth with strictly? Dharma is left thinking about this. It was very good scene.

BTW seeing Dharma & Ashoka together Bindusar asks them if they would mind staying together, much to delight of both.

PS : from next week Ashoka will be half hour episodes.

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Shivani Priyam Kumar

@Meself

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 10 years ago

#24

Three days of writhing in cold translates as a superfast discussion of everything series! I was honestly surprised seeing posts after posts, especially when I thought I'll have ample time to read all that I missed. No problem, it's all cool as it have done that now. Three things that I came across while reading the posts here were:

Why is Dharma on an agitated pedestal about her son when boys were sent away to Gurukuls for long duration of time?
Why can't Chanakya, not reveal their identity?
Why can't Drupad be taken under Chanakya's wing and trained to be the future emperor?

Well as far as the first question is concerned then Dharma is, according to me, not sure as to what her son will turn into. She had lived all her life thinking that Bindusara betrayed her and her son. Now that the truth is in front of her she knows that things are barely what they seem to be. On the outside the entire Mauryan clan looks like a bunch of happy family but on the inside there are scheming minds and personal interests put to good use. Parting from her son in such a setting is not a sane thing to do. I do agree that Dharma has no interests in power of luxury that comes with being called a queen and a raajmata but nonetheless she knows what it is all about. And she knows that how hard every woman in the royal household is struggling to get to that nucleus of power! Putting Asoka in this setting, even like a stranger, would make a shift in this struggle of power with first instinct being to eliminate this new threat. Charumitra has already begun with putting Asoka in line of fire, it wouldn't be long enough before Noor does the same; once she sees what a massive talent this boy Asoka is. In this Imperial setting no one is interested in their win as much as they are interested in other's loss. Dharma might be politically nave but she has been able to see through all of this. Her fear is mostly generated from all the revelations that has been made to her lately. If it indeed were a happy-go-lucky scenario, she might have pushed her son into the Chanakya's hand for she wants him to be an idealistic man, but since its far from all of that, she is trying her best possible ways to avoid coming in contact with these elements.

Secondly, their identity. Well given the present deployment of eccentricity and primal hunger for power in Mauryan household it will be nothing but stupidity to let everything out in the open. A game of cards is diabolical only because your own cards are always hidden driving your opponent to edge of desperation. Chanakya here is employing the very trick. He knows as long as he keeps Asoka's identity at bay, all the enemies of Magadha will beat around the bush, but none will dare to touch it. This will give Asoka ample time to prepare himself for the upcoming power push, because by the time everything will be out in open Asoka will be a major contender in the race with almost all placing their bets on him. Also, by keeping Asoka's identity under wraps and putting him at an equal stand with other prince and royal dignitaries, Chanakya is giving him opportunities to unravel the layers that are present. Asoka is diabolic mind; he is able to see through things and meander his course accordingly. By allowing himself to walk the path laid out by Chanakya, he will actually prepare for the future brawl that has to come his way. The more he plays in shadows, the more he'll be prepared for the battles in the light. Maybe this is the reason why Chanakya is so touchy about his identity being hidden safely until the right time comes.

Now the third question. Yes, Chanakya could very well take Drupad under his wings and train him. But here the crucial factor is time and ability. Chanakya is withering and no man can escape death. He knows this and hence is trying his level best to ensure Magadha's future before reaper comes for him. Drupad is too young and at the moment is not adultered with the political scenario of the capital. Secondly if we are to see all the princes of Magadha then none have come across as exceptional. They are very mechanical in their stand and have almost nothing that could be termed as brilliant to offer to the masses. Asoka on the other hand surpasses his royal siblings in terms that he has been gifted with a sharp mind and caustic tongue that speaks and makes people shift in their stands. So far all the events that have unfold are testimony to these facts. When Asoka was accused of Bindusara's attempt to murder it was his caustic tongue that played everyone to the hilt. Next in the daanav's case it was his mind that revealed facts to the investigating officers. In Chanakya's words he is a boy of exceptional talents and hence he only needs a direction to proceed to. While the other princes are devoid of such elements and would have to trained tremendously before they can be put in the race. Drupad is too young, he is still a kid and no one knows whether his training will prove fruitful or not. So the only winning bet is Asoka and so far he has proved his merit in every test that was taken. Possibly why Chanakya has chosen him and no one else

Edited by Meself - 10 years ago

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