Mughals - JA(REAL) is not Fiction-Pt4 - Author/TM's note on Pg1 and 91

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#361

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi.
Yes, i know about Pontus, the ancient kingdom of Asia Minor.😊

BTW, which King of Pontus are you talking about.😕 Coz there were 10-12 major rulers.

King Mithridates VI Eupator, used to take such poisonous doses in "controlled' amount, as there was a fear of conspiracy to kill him using poison. So, to develop immunity he did so.

But, this costed him as well. After getting defeated from Pompey, he tried to commit suicide😕. And, ingested poison, but did not die.😆

Coming to point:

Chanakya time-period is around 330 B.C. And, that King of Pontus 100 B.C.
So, clearly, Chanakya existed 230 years, BEFORE that king.

Hence, Chanakya DID NOT learn this art from that Pontus's king.😊

P.S --> Mithridates VI is mentioned as the deadliest enemy of Roman empire. Roman texts do give a good account of him.

1. A History of Rome, LeGlay
2. The Poison King-The Life of Mithridates-Rome's deadliest enemy, by Mayor

Chanakya learnt this from his opponent (not sure if he ever created one) Amathya Rakshasa, the chief minister of Nanda's. Amathya Rakshasa had reared one Vishkanya and when Chandra Gupta revolted against Nanda's and won the battle, that girl was sent a treaty to CG. In the nick of the moment, Chanakya noticed some dead ants around left overs of Orange ate by that girl. Then he realized that That girl was actually a VK and he took her to his confidence and used her against Nandas.

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Petal_Pose

@Petal_Pose

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#362

The next big villian is Hakim's mother, and I guess since Maham has to go someday .Your theory sounds very plausible.The CVS preparing for the next villian sounds possible. let's see, i don't have any high hopes from the show now.Hakim mother was one hell of a woman ,whatever i have read so far.😉 Can't wait for more.:)

Edited by Clumsy_Wings - 11 years ago

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sonia_1

@sonia_1

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#363

Originally posted by: history_geek
Hi friends

A reminder, and a subtle hint. 😉
Hakim's mother, Mahchuchak Begum may soon enter into picture, in the ongoing track.
More info we'll update near weekend.

Great Abhay ! So its Hakim's mother , another protagonist who is responsible for Ben. Hakim may not be innocent either. 😕

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Cleo12345

@Cleo12345

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#364

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi.
Yes, i know about Pontus, the ancient kingdom of Asia Minor.😊

BTW, which King of Pontus are you talking about.😕 Coz there were 10-12 major rulers.

King Mithridates VI Eupator, used to take such poisonous doses in "controlled' amount, as there was a fear of conspiracy to kill him using poison. So, to develop immunity he did so.

But, this costed him as well. After getting defeated from Pompey, he tried to commit suicide😕. And, ingested poison, but did not die.😆

Coming to point:

Chanakya time-period is around 330 B.C. And, that King of Pontus 100 B.C.
So, clearly, Chanakya existed 230 years, BEFORE that king.

Hence, Chanakya DID NOT learn this art from that Pontus's king.😊

P.S --> Mithridates VI is mentioned as the deadliest enemy of Roman empire. Roman texts do give a good account of him.

1. A History of Rome, LeGlay
2. The Poison King-The Life of Mithridates-Rome's deadliest enemy, by Mayor

Good post...

I've been reading about Mithridatism as well.

Trying to explain this very complex process of ' how to make a vishkanya' by modern medicine can be attempted. Some things make sense to me...some don't. I'll try to stay away from complex medical terms.

There seems to be some similarity to vaccination where there is administration of a killed or weaker form of pathogen/ toxin in the body...the body's immune system senses the danger and produces antibodies( weapons) in abundance...more like an army prepared for an overkill after a weak enemy attack. If the next attack is powerful ( exposure to actual disease...here the pathogen is strong) ...the body ready and thus immune.

Desensitization or allergy immunotherapy is a medical treatment used for severe allergies ( this is different from infection ) ... There is regular administration of increasing doses of allergen ( the culprit)... This also brings changes to immune system and the next time patient is exposed to the culprit the allergic reaction is not that severe.

anti venom used to treat snake bites is also prepared by injecting a diluted form of the actual venom into an animal like horse or sheep. The animal will have a immune response and produce antibodies( the weapons ) which are used to prepare the anti venom.

All this can partially explain a few things... But immune response in people can be different . Some of these girls may have died... Probably only the fittest survived. BUT...this only explains how they become immune.

How do they become weapons of assassination? I am immune to polio but it does not mean that if I bite someone, they will get the disease.

Another theory can be : There are diseases where people are 'carriers' of a disease and appear to be healthy on the outside but can still transmit it to other people. Some forms of hepatitis and even some HiV patients in the initial stages of the disease.

How were these processes combined using snake venom? I don't know...

Their knowledge of medicine in those days must be really advanced as far as snake venom is concerned. First making a person immune to snake venom and then a toxic carrier as well!!!

I Havn't had the time to do a lot of research today. I'll go through some older publications to see if I can find something that can help me scientifically understand the 'making of Vishkanyas' . If it has been mentioned so many times in different eras and civilizations, I 'll not dismiss it right away and try to find a logical explanation( if there is one)

I don't underestimate our ancestors. ' Vimaans' are mentioned in our ancient texts...in 15th century, people probably dismissed it as something mythological only...but we have ( airplanes) today. Our ancestors were probably smarter than we think. The vishkanya theory may be a myth but if there is any truth to it , there are aa lot of missing pieces ...Just because we cant explain it today does not mean we won't be able to do so 100 years from now. A lot of wars happened...civilizations were wiped out...all evidence of progress in the field of science may have been lost...who knows if we are rediscovering things that ancient civilizations were familiar with.

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brownprincess25

@brownprincess25

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#365

Abhay, I have heard from so many the real Akbar had meant Meera on many accounts. If so, how were their visits like since he was a spiritual person I am very interested in his spiritual aspect.

Thanks for answering my questions,

Shivani

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sara5471

@sara5471

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#366

I am amazed by your info! I knew that there were Vishkanyas but I didn't know that it was so deep rooted. My grand-mum had told me about these. But my knowledge is deeply limited.

I wonder how CVs will ever turn Mirza negative.

Hat's off Abhay!

(LOL, I just noted one thing on WIkipedia[I know, very unreliable] that I when I sought out the info on Mirza just when he entered the scene, there was a detailed page about him. Now it's just two or three lines)

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#367

Originally posted by: brownprincess25
How did Chakanya found out about using girls like that? Because it was started by King Pontus...do you know?

Originally posted by: history_geek
Hi.
Yes, i know about Pontus, the ancient kingdom of Asia Minor.😊

BTW, which King of Pontus are you talking about.😕 Coz there were 10-12 major rulers.

King Mithridates VI Eupator, used to take such poisonous doses in "controlled' amount, as there was a fear of conspiracy to kill him using poison. So, to develop immunity he did so.

But, this costed him as well. After getting defeated from Pompey, he tried to commit suicide😕. And, ingested poison, but did not die.😆

Coming to point:

Chanakya time-period is around 330 B.C. And, that King of Pontus 100 B.C.
So, clearly, Chanakya existed 230 years, BEFORE that king.

Hence, Chanakya DID NOT learn this art from that Pontus's king.😊

P.S --> Mithridates VI is mentioned as the deadliest enemy of Roman empire. Roman texts do give a good account of him.

1. A History of Rome, LeGlay
2. The Poison King-The Life of Mithridates-Rome's deadliest enemy, by Mayor

Originally posted by: deejagi
Chanakya learnt this from his opponent (not sure if he ever created one) Amathya Rakshasa, the chief minister of Nanda's. Amathya Rakshasa had reared one Vishkanya and when Chandra Gupta revolted against Nanda's and won the battle, that girl was sent a treaty to CG. In the nick of the moment, Chanakya noticed some dead ants around left overs of Orange ate by that girl. Then he realized that That girl was actually a VK and he took her to his confidence and used her against Nandas.

Hi.
The incident you mentioned is absolutely correct. 😊 TFS this incident.

I would like to add a point here. Before, this incident also, Chanakya had started preparing Vishkanyas. Actually, in the university at Taxshila, where Chandragupta Maurya was undergoing training/education. There, secretly, he had started this. The incident goes like this-->. Once on a trip, he noticed that a girl miraculously survived after eating poisonous fruits from a wild tree, while others died. It did not take him long to understand this issue, and he took the girl to the university. And, then made further arrangements to prepare more such girls in this order. He had a peculiar method of choosing girls. About this method of choosing, already, has been written.

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/99995240

Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#368

Originally posted by: MaddyO
Abhay there is so much talk on JA forum about whether Jodha will go back to Amer????

If there was a big incident that lead to Jodha going back to Amer, then it would be documented in the archives right?
If Akbar went to Amer to bring her back (like shown in JA movie) that also would be documented

Did this actually happen?
I know real Akbar did visit Amer, but how many times?
Your informed opinion please

Maddy,

This talk is not only restricted to IF, but even my inbox, as well.😆
So, finally writing what we know.

Told you already, that the movie was a sheer NON-SENSE. Neither Akbar was like that nor Jodha. And, "NEITHER" Bharmal "gifted" his daughter in that manner. Hope, you have not forgotten Amer's war with Sharifuddin.

Originally posted by: history_geek
Regarding JA movie - "Non-Sense".
They didn't show even the war of Amer-Sharifuddin, before Akbar-Heera marriage, which led to capture of Bharmal's nephews and son.
Where was Ruqayya and other begums of Akbar.?😕 They showed a good-goody Akbar only.!
Even, Akbarnama mentions this war as the reason of marriage & Chugtai Khan. And, movie ignored all that..!?😕?!
That movie showed their marriage in poor light, but actual was a very "NICELY ORGANISED WEDDING CEREMONY"(as per Badayuni & Abul Fazl's chronicles).
Credit KDR81--> Even a few gifts which Akbar received from Amer in wedding are worth mentioning, which he appreciated as well.(though don't have the list RIGHT NOW.!)

Now, your MAIN question. None of us, have read " TILL NOW ", about Heera leaving Agra for Amer, in that manner, means after falling out with Akbar.
Though, still reading, if find something, will update.

Yup, you are correct, Akbar did visit Amer. How many times - No idea, as of now...A lot of text is still to be read..! But, you may for time being settle down with following information. And see his strong affinity towards Amer😉-->>

This was Akbar's policy.
" Akbar's Hindu Father/brother's in law, stood as equals with his Muslim Father/Brother's in Law. They held their heads HIGH in the Mughal court, like other Muslim nobles/courtesans. The only restriction he had put on them was -- they could not drink, dine with him. "

Now, the "STRANGE DEPARTURE" from this practice ---> Akbar DID drink, etc. with his Ameri relatives..!!. This was in Ameri and other contemporary accounts. And, they were invited in his royal functions, etc. as well.

Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago

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Shraddha

@lashy

Trailblazer

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#369

Originally posted by: history_geek
Hi friends

A reminder, and a subtle hint. 😉
Hakim's mother, Mahchuchak Begum may soon enter into picture, in the ongoing track.
More info we'll update near weekend.

This would have been an AMAZING twist...had they executed the current track properly...with Hakim being introduced as innocent...and turning to be the true plotter behind Ben..not Abul Maali as we thought etc etc...

However, since the focus of this BENAZIR track has shifted to something else completely, adding this new Begum to the twist now feels like 'Oh God ANOTHER villain'

Lets see how they take it!!😃

Thanks for the info...