Mughals - JA(REAL) is not Fiction-Pt4 - Author/TM's note on Pg1 and 91 - Page 32

Originally posted by: justlovetv

history geek and kdr81, I just love the information you guys post! Very factual and true! Anyways I had a question with respect to Akbar, Maansingh and Bhagwant Das. I was on Wikipedia yesterday and I happened to read that there were problems between the three regarding the acceptance of Din-e-Ilahi. Is it true that Maansingh and Bhagwant Das refused to accept the religion and there were problems regarding that?

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thanx buddy.😊

First, would like to inform you that we are highly skeptical of the matter on wikipedia/Internet/Digital domain. So, informing you to use it carefully.😊

About your question,
First, a correction, It was NOT Din-i-llahi originally , but Tauhid-i-llahi.

Tauhid-i-llahi means Divine Monotheism. Abul Fazl and Badayuni have used this word only in the accounts. After Akbar's death, after 80 years, the word Tauhid was replaced by Din.

{Guys, P.S., this "change" again occured during reign of Aurangzeb..!🥱..(another example.!.)}

Din means faith. Tauhid-i-llahi, was the "real order" of Sufi type. Now, meaning changed to Divine Faith. Earlier, it was Divine Monotheism. So, it was not called a 'faith' initially. !

Yes, Bhagwan Das and Man Singh, did not gave acceptance for this "new path" . Bhagwan Das said i know only 2 creeds - Hindus and Mussalmans,and did not accept. Man Singh was invited, but could/did not attend.
There was NO deterioration in their relations due to this. 😊

P.S. ---> I have not used the word "religion" for this..

Originally posted by: adianasr

Excellent Abhay. I have always felt that it was never a religion but more an order in the lines of the Sufis but could not find the correct resources to justify my gut feeling. Every time I used to have this argument with ppl but did not have the material proof. Thanks buddy!!!

Welcome Adi,

After reading about this "new path", even i had the same feeling, that this did not appear to be a religion. So, to enquire, just went into chronicles. And, found my 'nightmare'. The original concept itself😲 was changed. Tauhid changed to Din..!!😲!!😕..
Such a big distortion. And, again, this happened, during Aurangzeb's rule.😕.🥱.

BTW, even i had arguments/debates with many people when i tried to justify that it was a new path to propagate monotheism. But, they advised me to focus on my studies and leave history.😕

When it is mentioned that it was a 'tauhid' not 'din'. Still confusion..?..I finally stopped discussing this, thereafter...😕

I have still remembered, when i was in class 8 there was a part on Akbar in social science book..n there was written akbar had started a new religion that name was Din -E-Ilahi but there was no detail explanation(even i never saw Din was Tuhid in any book till date) ..As it was board approval book,i don't think the information were much researched..anyway this Din-E-Ilahi made a curiosity in my mind that time but after being totally science student i never tried to retrospect on this issue..
@abhay: thanx for giving information on din-e-ilahi..but i want to know largely what was the base of this din e ilahi? If it was not any religion issue then for which reason akbar started this din e ilahi? Behind din e ilahi was akbar influenced by any peer type person?

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thanx buddy.😊

First, would like to inform you that we are highly skeptical of the matter on wikipedia/Internet/Digital domain. So, informing you to use it carefully.😊

About your question,
First, a correction, It was NOT Din-i-llahi originally , but Tauhid-i-llahi.

Tauhid-i-llahi means Divine Monotheism. Abul Fazl and Badayuni have used this word only in the accounts. After Akbar's death, after 80 years, the word Tauhid was replaced by Din.

{Guys, P.S., this "change" again occured during reign of Aurangzeb..!🥱..(another example.!.)}

Din means faith. Tauhid-i-llahi, was the "real order" of Sufi type. Now, meaning changed to Divine Faith. Earlier, it was Divine Monotheism. So, it was not called a 'faith' initially. !

Yes, Bhagwan Das and Man Singh, did not gave acceptance for this "new path" . Bhagwan Das said i know only 2 creeds - Hindus and Mussalmans,and did not accept. Man Singh was invited, but could/did not attend.
There was NO deterioration in their relations due to this. 😊

P.S. ---> I have not used the word "religion" for this..

Thank You for the info! I myself was a victim of misunderstanding! Thanks for clearing it up😊👏 Now I know never to believe Wikipedia or any other source on the internet😊😃

Minor Update :

In reference to few PM's. There are some articles on INTERNET which say that "octagonal plan" of a building, means association with negativity ( read a traitor). Ex: Sher Shah Suri's tomb is octagonal in shape and so is Adham Khan's/MA's tomb. So, it's claimed that Adham was given an octagonal tomb coz, he was viewed as a traitor. I had a doubt on this theory. So, decided to share with you all.😊

Reasons, read and think yourself ::

1. Red Fort, original plan is also octagonal.

2. Humayun's Tomb, by his wife, Haji Begum, also has main cenotaph as an octagonal conception.

3. Tomb of Firoz Shah's 'loyal' prime minister, Maqbul Khan, is also octagonally conceived. (first octagonal tomb in India), in Nizamuddin village in Delhi.

4. Sher Mandal, Humayun's library in Purana Quila, Delhi, was also octagonal in conception.

5. Outside Humayun's Tomb enclosure, is built Nila Gumbad (blue dome), credited to Rahim, in 1625. This is also octagonal in plan. It is said that this contains remains of Fahim Khan, one of his favorite attendants.

5. The Aizzabad Bagh, where Aurangzeb crowned himself on 31 July 1658, was also octagonal. Today, this is called Shalimar Bagh. This was perhaps built by Shah Jahan, and named after his mistress 'Aizzu'n-Nisa-Begum. This garden/bagh is also mentioned in the memoirs of European traveller Catrou.

6. Most interesting : MUZ's palace of Agra, had 'step-well/baoli' in the basement of her palace. This was also an octagonal cum circular plan.😉

I have more examples, but after considering these examples, i feel that, such theory of :
equating octagonal = traitor would be "😕".

Moral:
Same story. Internet = House of Stories (read FF). 🥱.

References:
1. Waqi'at-i-Daru'l-Hukumat-i-Dihli by Bashiru'd-Din Ahmad
2. Athar-us-Sanadid by Sayyid Ahmad Khan

Originally posted by: history_geek

Minor Update :

In reference to few PM's. There are some articles on INTERNET which say that "octagonal plan" of a building, means association with negativity ( read a traitor). Ex: Sher Shah Suri's tomb is octagonal in shape and so is Adham Khan's/MA's tomb. So, it's claimed that Adham was given an octagonal tomb coz, he was viewed as a traitor. I had a doubt on this theory. So, decided to share with you all.😊

Reasons, read and think yourself ::

1. Red Fort, original plan is also octagonal.

2. Humayun's Tomb, by his wife, Haji Begum, also has main cenotaph as an octagonal conception.

3. Tomb of Firoz Shah's 'loyal' prime minister, Maqbul Khan, is also octagonally conceived. (first octagonal tomb in India), in Nizamuddin village in Delhi.

4. Sher Mandal, Humayun's library in Purana Quila, Delhi, was also octagonal in conception.

5. Outside Humayun's Tomb enclosure, is built Nila Gumbad (blue dome), credited to Rahim, in 1625. This is also octagonal in plan. It is said that this contains remains of Fahim Khan, one of his favorite attendants.

5. The Aizzabad Bagh, where Aurangzeb crowned himself on 31 July 1658, was also octagonal. Today, this is called Shalimar Bagh. This was perhaps built by Shah Jahan, and named after his mistress 'Aizzu'n-Nisa-Begum. This garden/bagh is also mentioned in the memoirs of European traveller Catrou.

6. Most interesting : MUZ's palace of Agra, had 'step-well/baoli' in the basement of her palace. This was also an octagonal cum circular plan.😉

I have more examples, but after considering these examples, i feel that, such theory of :
equating octagonal = traitor would be "😕".

Moral:
Same story. Internet = House of Stories (read FF). 🥱.

References:
1. Waqi'at-i-Daru'l-Hukumat-i-Dihli by Bashiru'd-Din Ahmad
2. Athar-us-Sanadid by Sayyid Ahmad Khan

BENAZIR TRACK UPDATE


Hi all.

Finally, posting something related to veracity of ongoing Benazir track, on our show JA. Though, did not want to write on this track, but was "compelled" to write otherwise my inbox would have been converted to spambox.!😆

This is what was "READ" --->

A vishkanya, from Kabul was sent to kill Jalal . Reason given is : ---> "Jalal had lust for beautiful women." And, so his enemies decided to use such a "weapon". Further, the vishkanya was caught "JUST IN TIME", and was executed / hanged. Tried but could not find more. 😕 If find something more, will share soon..

BTW, bit more info, may be a future track. 4 incidents of such type were mentioned, but only 1(i.e., present), was from vishkanya. Rest 3 attacks, were from, normal girls, but none of them were during wars. So, in future we may get atleast 3 more tracks, like this... 😕

References :

1. A really tattered translated old book sans name (could not get the cover page). In references, it was mentioned this event is from some 'Namah' . On grilling hard, concluded, this could only be Akbarnama. On further digging found, ATLEAST 3 different Akbarnamas exist.😕
a. By Abul Fazl (we all know)
b. By Faizi
c. By Akbar Shah
Don't know if more are present, even last 2 are not easily available.

2. A Marathi source (a forum member😉 and a friend of mine have read this)


Vishkanyas :

Before concluding, it will be better if we clear misconceptions associated with vishkanyas. The CV's have portrayed them in such a manner that they appear to be a fantasy.😕.
Read further to clarify, what actually were they...!...

Originally posted by: history_geek

Such girls were immune/resistant to poison..
They were "prepared", i mean trained from childhood, and made to eat, slightly poisonous fruits, etc.
So, that in due course of time they develop immunity to it.And, their body became adapted to it.
And, they used to become so poisonous that, even their "Most minor scratcH" could result in death..😕.(as i read...)
There is EARLIEST explicit mention of such girls by Chanakya in Arthashastra. He prepared such girls to protect Chandragupta Maurya from traitors..😊..Such girls were probably part of his bodyguard-unit..(around 320 B.C.)

The actual concept became SLIGHTLY different with time.😉..(around 500 years after Chanakya's period..)

Originally posted by: KDR81

These things happened those days but more in times of Gupta era...😊..
However, the Vishkanya concept is a bit fudged ..where as an actual one was something more practical...

Originally posted by: KDR81

Hey Abhay,
I asked u whether I should give the real account on VK concept or not...But I never found the thread again with ur comment...😆
Here's what was the procedure and execution for VKs...

Ok...It's like this...

This is True that the VishKanya's were fed with small amount of Poison everyday under supervision.The amount and Type of poison was adjusted according to age and desired effect.
Now, these girls were not randomly chosen ones, but were carefully selected among many such girls whose parents were willing to accept the proposition.The girls had to be born under a specific birth star constallation and were the ones with certain flaws in Kundli like Vaidhavya -yog or Anura-Yog..and the girls who had not shown signs of Puberty.🤔
The girls were taken to Gurukuls where they were taught various arts and science.These girls, getting those various types of poisons slowly got immune to those types of poison. However, Their blood was NOT Poisonous.😊

The tactics used to kill people were as follows:
Being exceptionally beautiful and talented , these girls easily got recruited into the Royal Household of Kings either as Courtesans, Concubines or Maids. After making themselves noticeable and intimate to the Targeted Kings / Princes, these Girls took such amount of poison in their mouth which were fatal to normal human beings(but not for themselves) and either mixed that in food or transferred to the victim while kissing.😉

The VKs being immune to the venom used, did not show any adverse effect but the victim succumbed to death. So, after the death no one could find the source of the venom as there were no trace left anywhere except the VK's own body which no one could imagine or guess

😊 Clean Act u see...
Sometimes they could even smear their fingers with Poison and scratch their victims to death, without the danger of harming themselves.

The mission thus accomplished, the VKs returned to their centers.😊

Regards,
Kamal

P.S.(Ashwin Sanghi does have a good account of these in his books)

Originally posted by: KDR81

Venom is actually one of the most precious types of Addiction till date...🤢.But alas...The Cvs missed the biggest point to be kept in mind...!!😒
Vishkanyas were given Venom not for "Addiction" ...but they were administered controlled doses mixed with milk and various other potions as a "Medication"... a med to make them immune to the ill-effects of the same...😳 Pls Note," Immune "not "Addicted"...


Hence , the point of getting Drug-induced effects through Snake venom is a Homology and not an Analogy here, as people might otherwise think...😊

(And neither did they BITE to give venom...😆unlike the common notion)


P.S.: Venom as medication is a well-known one...however, different snake venom have different medicinal values...like, Blood-clotting, Blood-Unclotting, Neuro-pathological etc etc.... In Fact some of strongest of Sedatives and Pain-killers have Venom as ingredient...😊
But, VK issue here is a bit different...

Originally posted by: history_geek

Refer Arthashastra by Chanakya. He has given the code of conduct, living style and almost everything about these VK, if anyone is highly interested in original VK concept.

Though, we left this topic of vishkanyas, since we had no intention to do a PHD on this topic. But some mis-conceptions like...
1. They were addicted to venom..
2. They bite their victims..😆.etc. etc..is fudged.

OTHER MAJOR UPDATES::

Page - 20- Mirza Hakim history
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/jodha-akbar/3848936/mughals-ja-real-is-not-fiction-pt4-author-tms-note-on-pg1-and-91?pn=20

Page - 28,29 - Info on Shivani Track
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/jodha-akbar/3848936/mughals-ja-real-is-not-fiction-pt4-author-tms-note-on-pg1-and-91?pn=28

Page 31 - Akbar - MUZ conversation (lectures)
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/jodha-akbar/3848936/mughals-ja-real-is-not-fiction-pt4-author-tms-note-on-pg1-and-91?pn=31



Though something is there on every page..New updates on following page..

Page 6 - MUZ
Page 8 - Tansen and Mughal dresses(updated)
Page 9 -'Wali Ni'maat'.another title given to Heera Kunwari.apart from MUZ
Page 14 - Mughal dresses(new update)
Page 16 - Some OLD graves unearthed..!!..About MUZ..

Akbar had SEEN Heera before marriage - on page 16,17..

Thank you so so so so much abhay...😊

thank you Abhay!

thanq abhay! 👏

3 more trcks ... uff ... 😭