Mahakumbh 45-48: Suspended animation - Page 6

Created

Last reply

Replies

70

Views

6k

Users

17

Likes

235

Frequent Posters

sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#51
Mahakumbh 50: Yudhviraam

Folks,

The title comes from the (temporary) halt in hostilities between Daadi and Rao-Shiva, with the apparent retreat of Professor Rao from the Saraswati Kund investigations. I say "apparent" because he cannot possibly abandon the quest, but I do not see how they can return now unless they lock Daadi up, but where? The haystack that is masquerading as the Brahma Nisth Panth Hqs in the Mahakumbh grounds does not have any handy cupboards!😉

I was delighted with the neat trick by which they winkled Sahadev Malla away from his duties, but alas, it did not work, as I had half feared. But how on earth does Daadi scent mischief, even while she is making Rudra's head as sticky a mess as she can, and the pillow too, and apparate in on the dismayed duo? I begin to think she is a witch, and not just a jail warden!😉

The debate between two, both dignified in their stance and their expressions, was, as all such debates must be when one side has already closed its mind, inconclusive. And just like Shivanand when Charles threatened to blow his brains out if he was not allowed to take Katharine back from the underground hideout, so too now, faced with an implacable Daadi, Rao has no option but to retreat for the present.

No ritual obeisance by Shiva: Did you folks note one thing in this segment?Shivanand, who otherwise makes it a fetish to do paanv padna of his mother when he meets her and again when he leaves her, regardless of the fact that she almost never blesses him, did not make any move to do that last night. Maybe this will be the beginning of his defying her openly; he was dismayed and almost rebellious when Prof. Rao ordered him to pack up. More of this below.

An unregenerate dinosaur: The problem with Daadi is that she does not understand that nothing can be retained unchanged, for change is the one certainty in life. And there is no such thing as doing nothing (to change things), for inaction itself is a form of action, as it has definite consequences.

So, when she thinks that by avoiding all investigation of the Kund, and not provoking the Sri Santh Panth, all will be well, she could not be more wrong. Hatred and the savage desire to dominate cannot be foiled by the tactics of an ostrich.

But the most disturbing thing about Daadi is that she seems perfectly ready to forgive and forget the destruction of her family and of the Brahma Nisht Panth by Balivesh and Naanu, but she cannot forgive Shivanand for his probing of the miracle of the Kund and for his devotion to vigyan,This is truly incomprehensible, as much as her total indifference to all that her son went thru. And because of this hard heartedness and incredible obtuseness, I am unable to share the reluctant admiration for her that is felt by many here.

Daadi may be kind and compassionate to the kalpavaasis, but she is at heart an aggressive, obstinate dinosaur, and she belongs in a museum. And how does she acquire the sole rights to the governance of the Brahma Nisht Panth anyway? In our tradition, it is the son who inherits his father's mantle, not the widow. Strange, the way she asserts her sole right to the Panth, and the way in which the eternally paanv padofying Shivanand never questions it. He has as much right to the Brahma Nisht parampara as she has.

As for our ancient Rishis, as Meenakshi has rightly noted on Arshi's latest thread, their aastha and gyaan were not at all as allergic to vigyan as Daadi would have it. In fact the Rishi Kanada, who was an agnostic, if not an atheist, is widely credited with having originated the atomic theory of matter long before Dalton.

The Rithambara pragyna: As for the concept articulated by Shivanand, of all matter being sound, modern quantum physics says that the fundamental building blocks of matter, the protons, electrons, positrons, neutrons and other smaller, fundamental building block particles, can all be explained as either waves or quanta, or packets of energy, the two being interconvertible. But the wavelengths of these particles, and thus their frequencies, would not be in the audible range at all. So these particles would be waves, yes, but they could not be heard as sound.

This aspect of the Rithambara pragnya that Shivanand cites is thus stretching the edges of physics to fit a fantasy framework. This does not rule out the idea of a seeker getting a particular sensation, from a particular object; it merely means that an object cannot be visualised as a vibration.

Maya ki maya:
in The explanation for Maya getting hit by Balivesh's thugs has been very neatly and convincingly scripted, but what was it with all those swords et al and about half a dozen men with all that ironmongery to kill just one fragile woman? And to do that openly, at the Mahakumbh? It is utter nonsense.

But perhaps it will allow from some of the dishum dishoom that I have missed of late, as Rudra takes on the SSP gang. I hope it is better than the tepid one where Charles and Rudra rescued Maya and Katherine rescued herself.

And yes, the blue-eyed one, who is apparently introducing the blue vish into Maya's drip (another stupid cliche beloved of pedestrian TV shows, and unworthy of Utkarsh😡) is sure to be a naga. Hallelujah, they are here at last!👏 Just when I was beginning to feel sick of having to watch Balivesh, who has deteriorated so badly from his early, Sinister Swami days, and now looks merely repulsive in a pedestrian fashion.

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di


Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
mishtidoi thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#52
Aunty, can GR also portray head of Naag?😛 At least we can watch GR in action as a Nag, if not as Garud...here toh he's busy eating lollypops and blowing bubbles with Maya😡
shruthiravi thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 10 years ago
#53
Shymaladi yesterday epi was the clear indication of what I have been always feeling about religion. I mean for few people to hold power in the name of faith they propogate all false ideas. if you do this curse will fall. If you ask question earth will shatter and swallow you. They thrive on the fear created in the minds of people telling God's wrath.
Look at Dadi yesterday. She is so closed. I am always for having faith in a ritual but I want to understand the true meaning of it. we are forced to believe we are some secondary species because our literature, our religious scriptures tell that way. Unfortunately the answer is no. If you go asking questions, go deep into our literature you will find it has not placed man or woman in the inferior position. They are kept as equal but different.
Coming to vibrations theory propogated yesterday I will tell you these. We know that we cannot see UV rays or infra red rays. Similarly there is lot of sound which we cannot hear or distinguish. But there are people who can understand or hear what most people cannot, can see things which most people cannot. It is a special power bestowed. Maybe Mai's strength is to hear the right voices from the cacophony, make sense of the noise which not many can make.
jayaks02 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#54

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Shymaladi both orthodox and idealism are like 2 faces of same coin. Both resist change. Look at certain idealists, they don't even know what that idea means in real sense but if it benefits them they will stick to it. Same is the case with orthodox people, orthodoxy arises from sticking to certain back dated ideals which have no use in the contemporary world, but the person needs it to hold his or her power.

See Shiva alteast does what he says. Right and wrong of his actions is a different thing. His understanding it correctly or incorrectly is also a different thing. But his actions are true to his conscience. When he says you have to keep a distance from everyone or rakshak ke parivaar nahi hote he practices it.
But look at Dadi she says Karma Ka bandhan. What does that mean. In hus-wife you should have prem ka bandhan. Karma is ok in other relations but not in this relation.
Then she says pass se dekho. Has she really gone near anyone. Has she really understood anyone's else's feelings. Yes she has if it benefitted her, not if it does not benefit her. She never went near her son to understand him.
Allow Maya to do Sankalp, ask Rudra to visit and disturb her. It is complete double standard and hypocrisy.


Orthodox and Idealism is very deep and broad based subjects - We cannot just like that dismiss the customs in the name of Orthodox. I used to frown on many customs as Orthodox but when we understand the logic, tatparya behind it, it is a different thing altogther. Just my POV.

Of course this dadi seems QUITE a character. She seems to trust only herself - I am somehow beginning to think that Indian Telly Show makers create one character like this per serial to increase viewers BP and also sustain some discussions - A TRP Ploy !!!
sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#55
Don't ask me, my little Mishti. I have no idea, nor why she looks sideways all the time in that odd, exasperating fashion.

Thanks a lot, child. I am glad you liked this one too.

As for your idea of Gautam playing the head naga, that would be a fantastic idea, but they would never try it out, for fear of confusing and antagonising such viewers as they have, poor things. It is very depressing, to see such a good show get such a poor viewership, if one is to believe the TAM ratings.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: mishtidoi

Aunty...great post👍🏼

I've one kweshchun...why Maya was blushing so hard, constantly ? I couldn't fathom head and tail of it

Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#56
I agree with you completely, Shruthi, about the first part,and also with your very sensible post on Arshi's thread. I am going to reproduce my second response to hers here, and you might like to add yours as well, It would make for interesting reading.

As for other idea that Thappadiya Mai can hear ultrasounds, yes of course that is the only explanation possible. That is why I had noted above that the script had here entered the framework of fantasy. I have no problem with that, after all the whole thing is a fantasy.Poor woman, it must be awful for her on a day to day basis, like the boy in The Sixth Sense who could see dead people!

Shyamala i

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Shymaladi yesterday epi was the clear indication of what I have been always feeling about religion. I mean for few people to hold power in the name of faith they propogate all false ideas. if you do this curse will fall. If you ask question earth will shatter and swallow you. They thrive on the fear created in the minds of people telling God's wrath.

Look at Dadi yesterday. She is so closed. I am always for having faith in a ritual but I want to understand the true meaning of it. we are forced to believe we are some secondary species because our literature, our religious scriptures tell that way. Unfortunately the answer is no. If you go asking questions, go deep into our literature you will find it has not placed man or woman in the inferior position. They are kept as equal but different.
Coming to vibrations theory propogated yesterday I will tell you these. We know that we cannot see UV rays or infra red rays. Similarly there is lot of sound which we cannot hear or distinguish. But there are people who can understand or hear what most people cannot, can see things which most people cannot. It is a special power bestowed. Maybe Mai's strength is to hear the right voices from the cacophony, make sense of the noise which not many can make.

sashashyam thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#57
Folks,

As a supplement to my minitake above on Episode 50, Yudhviraam, I am reproducing below a very interesting response to it by Arshi, on her thread, Aastha ya vigyan?, and my return response to it.

I hope you would have looked thru the annexure to my main post on this thread, about the the Rao-Shiva plan for the amrit, for I have referred to it in brief here. Also that you will find this exchange of interest, and will not end up exclaiming A plague on both your houses! and shutting off the laptop or i-phone!😉

That is a reaction that I would empathise with. I must confess that all this excruciating hair-splitting regarding plans and motives that we indulge in here, and with such seriousness, is beginning to resemble the (equally serious) medieval debate in Europe and England about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin!

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

MY RESPONSE TO ARSHI'S COMMENTS ON MY TAKE ON EPISODE 50

Arshi my dear,

We are beginning to resemble last night's duelling duo, you and I! 😉I dislike Daadi for the reasons I have stated in this comment, and there I stay, I have no use for anyone whose compassion is so selective and whose capacity for harshness toward those she distrusts seems unlimited. You admire her for all the reasons you have cited here. So the only vikalp is for us to agree to disagree re: this unregenerate dinosaur!😉

As for Rishi Kanada, yes of course he used the word anu, for that was the only one he could have used at that time. And he might have been wrong on many other ideas of his. He was not the first nor will he be the last man of science to be wrong in his ideas, Any number of practicing scientists are wrong, all the time, and when one loses out, the shindy that is made is terrific!

But that does not negate Kanada's scientific bent of mind, even if he could not prove the anu concept because of a lack of the empirical approach. That is why I noted that he was "widely credited with having originated the atomic theory of matter", not with having discovered the atom. Just like Einstein propounded the Special Theory of Relativity, which was not proved by experiment till much later. That is why he got his physics Nobel for discovering the photoelectric effect, not for his theory of relativity.

The point is that no one else, not even in the scientifically advanced West, had that idea of the atomic theory of matter, and that for hundreds of years, till Dalton came along. The person who originates an idea deserves the Nobel as much as the one who proves it, though he often does not get it.

As for the Great Amrit Hunt, I tried hard and at great length, both in response to your comments on my last but one thread, and in the annexure to my latest, to clarify that

-Rao and Shiva are not thinking of using the amrit for themselves beyond using a kan to revive the Kund (or perhaps, as seemed to be the idea last night, just discover an existing one and use it to revive the Kund)

-that they are not scheming to somehow use the Kund to make the amrit appear at the end of the Mahakumbh.

As far as I can make out, and I have listened repeatedly and carefully to the Shiva-Rao conversations and to Greyerson's long explanation to Balivesh about what the Secret Society had gleaned from the ancient tomes they had laid hands on (undoubtedly from the Nazis who escaped to Argentina!😉), the amrit will appear on its own, and the task of the garudas is to keep it invisible from the bad guys.

As for the fear that activating the Kund will revive the war for the amrit, why, the Secret Society has, quite independently of both Shivanand and the Kund's miraculous properties, decided to fight it out for the amrit, not the one kan in the Saraswati Kund, but the whole lot. Of what use would one kan be for the Secret Society of for that matter to the 'Veshes? They want it all, and they are not going to forage in the Kund to get it.

I do not see the Rao plan for reactivating the Kund and the amrit protection issue as separate. As far as I could make out from what Rao tells Shiva about the machine, they are planning to locate the jeevit ansh of the vilupt Saraswati under the Kund, and then trace its course back to the presumed point at the Sangam, the hotly contested Sector 53, and thus get a clear fix on where exactly the Saraswati, and the amrit kumbh, will surface there. They need to know this so that they can spot the rising amrit with the minimum delay, get to it in time and hide it from evil eyes.

Shades of Munich:
As Daadi's idea that Shiva and Rao are going to violate a sacred space by running that gizmo there, but that the outrage inflicted on her Panth and her family by the 'Veshes is only due to their karma, for which no revenge should be sought, but instead they should be drawn into the warm embrace of the Brahma Nisht Panth by the Rudra-Maya union, it reminds me of just one thing.

Of Neville Chamberlain, his infamous meeting with Hitler, and the Munich Agreement of September 1938, after which he proclaimed, on his return to England, that he had won "peace for our time". We all know what happened a year later. With the 'Veshes, it will not be a year!

Never mind all this, Arshi, I love your posts no matter how much I disagree with you at times. You stick to your stand, and I will stick to mine! What intrigues me is how Utkarsh is going to keep all these tangled threads separate and then weave them into one neat tapestry at the very end. It is not going to be easy, not at all, and I only hope he manages it with a minimum of appeal to the willing suspension of our disbelief!

No ritual obeisance by Shiva: Did you note one thing in this segment?Shivanand, who otherwise makes it a fetish to do paanv padna of his mother when he meets her and again when he leaves her, regardless of the fact that she almost never blesses him, did not make any move to do that last night. Maybe this will be the beginning of his defying her openly; he was dismayed and almost rebellious when Prof. Rao ordered him to pack up. There is hope for him yet, it seems!😉

Shyamala

Originally posted by Arshics

Aastha se itni unaastha kyon?

While Dadi's point of view seems to have lost all support, her POV is significant and Is the fibre of our society.

( another powerful line from last night - drishti vs drishtikon )

When we site rishi kanada as having discovered atom - I don't think he discovered atom - he postulated that all matter must be made of indestructible particles called 'Anu', from brilliant logical deduction.

This today has been borne out by experiment, he also postulated many more things which have been disproved by modern day experimental science.

But his inner gyan led him to postulate many wonderful scientific ideas, which in the absence of scientific and empirical proofs, remained confined to a time and Became 'lupt'.He had gyan, but not the 'Vigyan'

But that is not the point here. We know more than Dadi, so we know of the danger to amrit, and hence we dismiss her stubborness.

We also laud Shiva as a hero when he says rakshakon ke parivar nahi hote

But what has the raksha of amrit got to do with rejuvenating the saarswati Kund?

These are two separate projects.

and this is the conflict - sansaar vs parivar

Gyan vs Vigyan

Astha vs shodh

Yog vs payog

Whether Dadi is right or shiva - it's a question that to me has no answer

Should they be protecting the sansaar at all costs and sending the amrit back into hiding - yes

Should shiva violate a space his mother considers sacred - no

Should shiva and professor Rao use a part of the amrit for their own plans - debatable - for while their intent maybe 'for the good for humanity' it will prove to be like -fusion - atomic energy - discovered by Einstein due to his passion for science and brilliance ( shiva ) envisioned by him to become a source of energy. And misused by powers that be ( veshes? Rao himself? Cardinal and Grerson? Our corrupt politicians) for creating a nuclear holocaust of terrifying proportions the tremors of which shake our world till today.

It is in this that shiva and Rao display Vigyan and not gyan - having found something as powerful as amrit and having taken that one boond - how do they ensure that it doesn't fall into wrong hands

Will the war for Saraswati Kund not start again, if it's magical powers are established again? And is not the family again in danger of being destroyed because everyone will want to own that one boond of amrit ?

Will there not be death and destruction again if an ansh of amrit exists in the Shivanand home, which while he may consider to be his sole property, but the others who are clearly more vile and evil and unethical and greedy will kill for?

Rakshakon ke parivar hote hain! Shiva ka parivar hai!

Amrit ki raksha uski niyati hai

Lekin amrit ka ek ansh apne liye rakhna - iska adhikar usko nahi hai...

Vishlesh roop se tab, jab yeh Uske poore parivar ko ek baar phir bhasm kar dega

Woh swarthi hai, utna hi Jitni Dadi hai

Kyonki ek bhi amrit ki boond par adhikar uske kissi rakshak ka nahi hai!

But I again digress by getting lost in the story,

The point is that while Shivas is the voice of reason, Dadi's is the voice of caution.

He denotes progress and she restraint.

We need both, she can see that once Saraswati Kund is active, vultures will again attack, and again what she is so painstakingly rebuilding will be lost

Her family will be again exposed to death and danger

Last time maybe shiva did not know the consequence of exposing the Kund to the world

This time he does - the project amrit raksha and Kund jeevan are two different -and not interlinked, but Rao has made them so, and shiva seems to have too much astha in him, to realize that.

Dadi is oblivious of the first - and I am sure will be proud of her son for it. She has lived through the tragedy unlocked by the second, and so is staunchly opposed to it.

I stand with her. We have had debates on who suffered most in that devastation of Dadi's family (yes Dadi's for clearly shiva has no family )

How does it matter? From different standpoints each suffered worst than the other.

Shiva needs to understand that activating the Kund will again put the parivar in the same situation - but then it's not his parivar!

Let's look at project amrit raksha and project Saraswati Kund as two seperate projects.

One is inevitable and dharma - the other is a choice - a conscious choice made by shiva - a choice that is dangerous - a choice that Dadi opposes

And I do too.


mishtidoi thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#58

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Don't ask me, my little Mishti. I have no idea, nor why she looks sideways all the time in that odd, exasperating fashion.

Thanks a lot, child. I am glad you liked this one too.

As for your idea of Gautam playing the head naga, that would be a fantastic idea, but they would never try it out, for fear of confusing and antagonising such viewers as they have, poor things. It is very depressing, to see such a good show get such a poor viewership, if one is to believe the TAM ratings.

Shyamala Aunty


I got this idea, coz in DKDM too there was Mahadev and Jalandhar played by Mohit...that track was superb, in story as well in execution onscreen. I felt those eyes were of GR, just the colour was blue.
shruthiravi thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 10 years ago
#59
@jayaks please read my new post in this thread. I have clearly told I am not against any ritual or any practice. Only thing is that I want to understand the meaning of it. In childhood I have abhorred many rituals just because I couldn't connect to it. Nobody could answer my valid questions also. Instead questioning was always discouraged and I was treated a rebel.
Growing up not satisfied with answers and not willing to let go of what I believed in, I have read extensively to understand the meanings in stories, which have thrown open a new meaning to many things are which are practiced are rituals. It gives you an option whether to follow it or not. By understanding you allow the other person to practice if they want to without making fun or insulting.
Orthodox is the condition in which you are forced to follow something which you don't want to do. I pray to God daily but I am not a person who visits temples frequently or keeps multiple vraths or do poojas. My husband does pooja daily of saligram, he visits temples as and when possible. We don't impose things on one another. He doesn't expects me to do the things the way I do, or I expect him to do the prayers the way I do. We respect each other's way of reaching God.
But the orthodox person wants everyone to like himself or herself because he or she thinks that is the only correct way.
It is said that you can aspire to be like someone else. But you cant expect another person to be like you. An orthodox person clinging to ideals without understanding exactly does the latter.
Edited by shruthiravi - 10 years ago
jayaks02 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#60

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@jayaks please read my new post in this thread. I have clearly told I am not against any ritual or any practice. Only thing is that I want to understand the meaning of it. In childhood I have abhorred many rituals just because I couldn't connect to it. Nobody could answer my valid questions also. Instead questioning was always discouraged and I was treated a rebel.

Growing up not satisfied with answers and not willing to let go of what I believed in, I have read extensively to understand the meanings in stories, which have thrown open a new meaning to many things are which are practiced are rituals. It gives you an option whether to follow it or not. By understanding you allow the other person to practice if they want to without making fun or insulting.
@Shrutiravi - OK - I agree and relate to this. Somehow it comes with age only 😃
Orthodox is the condition in which you are forced to follow something which you don't want to do. I pray to God daily but I am not a person who visits temples frequently or keeps multiple vraths or do poojas. My husband does pooja daily of saligram, he visits temples as and when possible. We don't impose things on one another. He doesn't expects me to do the things the way I do, or I expect him to do the prayers the way I do. We respect each other's way of reaching God.
But the orthodox person wants everyone to like himself or herself because he or she thinks that is the only correct way.
I have a doubt - Do you call them Orthodox or self-righteous ? Because I have seen some grandmas in my life , who follow customs diligently but never force it on others - Should we call them Orthodox or traditional ? The term Orthodox Jews confuses me - Are they always the people who force people to follow the rules ?
It is said that you can aspire to be like someone else. But you cant expect another person to be like you.
Nice
An orthodox person clinging to ideals without understanding exactly does the latter.

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".