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rsnarula67

@rsnarula67

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Posted: 7 years ago

#71

@Mahakali

Thanks once again.

Its the second story I am struggling with.

Physical body or body part cannot be the person. The soul is the important part. Like how we believe the soul departs and attains a new body and the cycle goes on. It is the soul that reaps the benefits/gets the punishments as per Karma.

So according to the second story, it would mean head & soul of Gajasura and body of Vinayak. As otherwise how can the boon given to Gajasura of living and learning from Mahadev be fulfilled.
So upon revival, it is not the son created by Parvati - as the soul is of Gajasura.

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mnx12

@mnx12

Channel Moderator

+ 14

Posted: 7 years ago

#72

Vinayak was created by Parvati. He wasnt born like other humans & animals.
His soul was too was ansh of Parvati.
A head was needed to make him alive. Gajasur gave it willingly. Since soul doesnt die, it either takes another body or merges with Brhman, getting liberated from the cycle of birth & death.
It can be said, Gajasur's soul, after giving his head got liberated. As per Mahadev's boon, his brain would keep on getting knowledge from Mahadev. Here Gajasur's brain along with his head revived Vinayak. Vinayak's soul was there itself. So Vinayak's wisdom was due to Gajasur's brain as well as what his soul learnt from the entire experience.

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Elpis

@Mahakaali

Beginner

Posted: 7 years ago

#73

Originally posted by: rsnarula67
@Mahakali

Thanks once again.

Its the second story I am struggling with.

Physical body or body part cannot be the person. The soul is the important part. Like how we believe the soul departs and attains a new body and the cycle goes on. It is the soul that reaps the benefits/gets the punishments as per Karma.

So according to the second story, it would mean head & soul of Gajasura and body of Vinayak. As otherwise how can the boon given to Gajasura of living and learning from Mahadev be fulfilled.
So upon revival, it is not the son created by Parvati - as the soul is of Gajasura.

As minaxi di says boon soul ko nahi milta body ko milta hai.. like har asura amaratava mangta hai for body cause aatma to amar hi hai...jab koi penance karta hai to uski soul powerful hoti hai but jaise hi koi penance ke liye boon mangta hai to power body ko milti hai... sage boon nahi mangte sirf soul ki peace ke liye penance karte but jab vo shrap dete to kahte tapofal jo ki penance ke karan hi hota hai aur shrap dene se unke tapofal me kami hoti hai... boon body ko milta hai soul ko nahi.. isiliye jab koi dubara janam leta hai to uske paas vahi powers and qualities nahi hoti jo last birth me thi... like kamdeva, jay-vijay (jinhone 3 baar demons ke roop me birth liya), even lord vishnu unhone har baar alag-alag tarah ki qualities wale rupoo me birth liya

Edited by Mahakaali - 7 years ago

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mnx12

@mnx12

Channel Moderator

+ 14

Posted: 7 years ago

#74

@ Mahakaali, wonderful answer. 👏

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rsnarula67

@rsnarula67

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Posted: 7 years ago

#75

Hi Minakshi ; Hi @Mahakali

First of all sorry for the late response, I have been ill with the flu ...
Thanks so much for your responses.

@Mahakali : Your response sort of turns a part of my understandings on its head, so I need to reflect on it a bit. Thanks a million for giving me your take, which gives me further food for thought

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

Sparkler

+ 8

Posted: 7 years ago

#76

I don't think you can differentiate brain from soul. Brain stops its functioning once soul leaves the body. So Gajasur's brain taking knowledge from Mahadev is not at all possible. His soul is liberated means his body including his brain becomes lifeless.. Vinayak's soul will function in his body that controls his brain. So there is no existence of Gajasur present in Vinayak anywhere.

As such Shiv Mahapuran says Gajasur asks two boons ..one Siva has to wear his skin and then he should bear the name Krittivasa.

The boon is for body not for soul..that also is arguable. When Siva says Nalayani will get five husbands it is for her soul which will take the form of Draupadi. So how could the boon be related to body?

Kamadev and Bhandasur both are different. Bhandasur was generated by Kamadev's ashes not with his soul. Kamadev's soul remained formless till he was graced by Siva that he will appear in form for Rati but actually will get a rebirth as Pradyumna.

When asuras ask immortality they aim to live in the same body forever which is against the rules set by Tridev. So there will be exceptions to that boons that will work in favour of Devas.

Just my take

Lakshmi

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rsnarula67

@rsnarula67

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Posted: 7 years ago

#77

Hi Lakshmi,

Yeah, that was my understanding too and also the reason for my 'struggle' with the Gajasur-Vinayak story.

Usually the back story and forward story always has a logical connection. In this particular story, the logic is not clear at all.

My Dad always told me that based on the deeds in each life the soul moves on to higher and higher status and finally attains complete merging with the Almighty. So, I felt that it is Gajasur's soul which should be the participant (as per the boon) not the body or body part.

@Mahakali gave me something different to think about. I still need to reflect on it and process, because it is completely divergent from what I thought until now.

Edited by rsnarula67 - 7 years ago

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Elpis

@Mahakaali

Beginner

Posted: 7 years ago

#78

Thankyou so much minaxi di and @rsnarula76 (sorry I don't know ur name and u can call me yashi 😊) and get well soon and no need to say sorry we understand it completely... even I came here rarely and after long intervals of time

Edited by Mahakaali - 7 years ago

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

Sparkler

+ 8

Posted: 7 years ago

#79

Originally posted by: rsnarula67
Hi Lakshmi,

Yeah, that was my understanding too and also the reason for my 'struggle' with the Gajasur-Vinayak story.

Usually the back story and forward story always has a logical connection. In this particular story, the logic is not clear at all.

My Dad always told me that based on the deeds in each life the soul moves on to higher and higher status and finally attains complete merging with the Almighty. So, I felt that it is Gajasur's soul which should be the participant (as per the boon) not the body or body part.

@Mahakali gave me something different to think about. I still need to reflect on it and process, because it is completely divergent from what I thought until now.

Reena

If at all Gajasur want to learn jnan in the presence of Shiv it can be possible by being a shiv Gan. Like Anthak,like Indradyumna, like many Shiv devotees..Not by the way it is assumed I mean by being the brain of Vinayak. I will not buy this thought. Vinayak in soul is himself with his own brain..

Gajasur got liberation and may have merged in Shiv or became his Gan as there are two types of salvation mentioned by Krishna in Geeta..by being one with the god or by being there in his presence.

Lakshmi

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Elpis

@Mahakaali

Beginner

Posted: 7 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: ltelidevara
I don't think you can differentiate brain from soul. Brain stops its functioning once soul leaves the body. So Gajasur's brain taking knowledge from Mahadev is not at all possible. His soul is liberated means his body including his brain becomes lifeless.. Vinayak's soul will function in his body that controls his brain. So there is no existence of Gajasur present in Vinayak anywhere.
As such Shiv Mahapuran says Gajasur asks two boons ..one Siva has to wear his skin and then he should bear the name Krittivasa.

The boon is for body not for soul..that also is arguable. When Siva says Nalayani will get five husbands it is for her soul which will take the form of Draupadi. So how could the boon be related to body?

Kamadev and Bhandasur both are different. Bhandasur was generated by Kamadev's ashes not with his soul. Kamadev's soul remained formless till he was graced by Siva that he will appear in form for Rati but actually will get a rebirth as Pradyumna.

When asuras ask immortality they aim to live in the same body forever which is against the rules set by Tridev. So there will be exceptions to that boons that will work in favour of Devas.

Just my take

Lakshmi

Hi Lakshmi di

Di you said about gajasura so u r talking about only shiv mahapurana not the other stories but I know u don't believe other stories and I respect that so there is no reason to talk about this..

About Nalayani.. yup she got 5 husband boon and the boon will fulfill in the form of draupadi but people believed she was incarnation of mahakaali and different various goddess so how come it was only Nalayani's soul?? and draupadi got boon from rishi ved-vyaas to get kaumarya every year after marriage to fulfill wife duties and many puranas states that every year she consists different energies and soul of different devi.. like arjun's year she has part of indrarani (sachi) herself and after chirharan puranas states that she takes the form of mahakaali and maa chandi... think of these all if we believe only soul is getting a boon so how come rishi ved-vyaas boon came to effect... and we all agree that draupasi is most sacred and sati woman of her time and don't forget about uppandvas.. she gives birth a baby in year and how come she gave birth to babies of one brother if she was living with another in previous if there is only one body and soul through out... Draupadi is just most mysterious personality in our purana.. we don't get much information about her while just reading I personally believe... she was so much pious and her life story is teaching us so much things and now boon is that nalayani will have 5 husbands and draupadi have 5 but do we surely state that draupadi is a single body a single soul person whole her life time??? I don't think we can understand or conclude this

about kamdeva... I don't personally think bhandasura as incarnation of kamdeva cause he was born by his ashes.. there is no role of his soul... I was talking about pradyumna.. as we read about him.. he was not fully like kamdeva and his duties are not like kamdeva..kamdeva has boon to spread love while I don't think pradyumna had one

you said brain is part of soul but I don't think this is right personally... cause as we knew ravana is highly educated person and biggest lord shiva devotee but after his incarnation as shishupal he didn't possess the same brain or same qualities either... even there many different stories of incranation in our puranas and mostly about devas, demons and rishi and I always read different types of personality in a different birth and I agree there was similarity also but that similarity cause of purity or impurity of soul not cause of any blessings or boons... Hiranaykashayap, ravana and shishupal is the incarnation is the same soul.. hiranyakashyap ne boon manga tha jiske karan narsingh bhagwaan ne unka wadh kiya but ravana ne human ke hatho marne ka boon manga (ravana ko kai boons mile the jisme se koi bhi usko agle birth me nahi mile) and shishupal ne koi vardaan nahi manga tha bhavishyavaani/ jyotish vaani hui thi uski death ki... if we agree agar boons soul ko milta hai to this important and main stories of our different yuga will be contradict it

if boon is carried out by souls so when people will take a new birth specially demons they should have the power of previous birth but they didn't have the same power cause soul can't be take or give anything...nothing can effect soul except our own deeds or karam ( geeta me lord krishna ne kaha yeh)... soul can be pure and impure... if soul is pure so person will get "Moksha" and if impure so person will have to take birth again in any form has to try to get his soul pure in the life cycle while travelling on the path of karm and bhakti... Actually for I am not ready to accept the fact about soul cause of geeta but it is not compulsory I am 100% right

I don't say My knowledge is right cause I know we can't say anything certainly... and this is pure based on our belief, faith and the personality and the way we take things... I always try to get the meaning or lesson of any story which I read that's why I said my take... It depends on person which we believe and follow

Edited by Mahakaali - 7 years ago