~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 60

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@bold is this true?? I thought it was some creative liberty by SP Mahabharata

Then Purandara, surrounded by the Maruts, descended from the firmament and addressing Partha and Kesava said, 'Ye have achieved a feat that a celestial even could not. Ask ye each a boon that is not obtainable by any man. I have been gratified with you.'

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Then Partha asked from Indra all his weapons. At this Sakra of great splendour, having fixed the time for giving them, said, 'When the illustrious Madhava becomes pleased with thee, then, O son of Pandu, I will give thee all my weapons! O prince of Kuru's race, I shall know when the time cometh. Even for thy austere asceticism I will give thee all my weapons of fire and all my Vayavya weapons, and thou also wilt accept them all of me.' Then Vasudeva asked that his friendship with Arjuna might be eternal. The chief of the celestials granted unto the intelligent Krishna the boon he desired.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01237.htm

THAT was when their friendship started. Not before.

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

In Ramanand Sagar Krishna serial he was named Krishna in gokul by kulguru of yadavas rishi garg.

Yes Rishi Garg named him, but what was his real name, unable to find the citation

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Then Purandara, surrounded by the Maruts, descended from the firmament and addressing Partha and Kesava said, 'Ye have achieved a feat that a celestial even could not. Ask ye each a boon that is not obtainable by any man. I have been gratified with you.'

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Then Partha asked from Indra all his weapons. At this Sakra of great splendour, having fixed the time for giving them, said, 'When the illustrious Madhava becomes pleased with thee, then, O son of Pandu, I will give thee all my weapons! O prince of Kuru's race, I shall know when the time cometh. Even for thy austere asceticism I will give thee all my weapons of fire and all my Vayavya weapons, and thou also wilt accept them all of me.' Then Vasudeva asked that his friendship with Arjuna might be eternal. The chief of the celestials granted unto the intelligent Krishna the boon he desired.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01237.htm

THAT was when their friendship started. Not before.

This is so cute

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I get it. I'll look up Krishna's naamkaran again. I believe he was called Govinda, but now I'm confused.😆

Panchali's is clearly stated as KrishnA. Arjuna says his father called him that because of color, so for him at least, we know that was not a real name.

Krishna Arjuna friendship I think started with Subhadraharan. I think Krishna asks for eternal friendship or some such after Khandavadahana.

When Arjuna reached Prabhas Patan, Krishna is described as his friend

I think Krishna visited them when they were building Indraprasth

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I get it. I'll look up Krishna's naamkaran again. I believe he was called Govinda, but now I'm confused.😆

Panchali's is clearly stated as KrishnA. Arjuna says his father called him that because of color, so for him at least, we know that was not a real name.

Krishna Arjuna friendship I think started with Subhadraharan. I think Krishna asks for eternal friendship or some such after Khandavadahana.

He wouldn't have suggested Haran if it wasn't for their friendship.

They might not have been bffs back then, but they definitely were friends even before that

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Introduction isn't done to someone you already know.

As I listed previously, if they knew each other before that scene:

1) Pandavas would've contacted Krishna, not decided to kill themselves (IIRC) when they were wandering around as poor beggars.

Pandavas do not try to kill themselves after Lakshagriha, they are guided by Vyasa regularly on what they need to do. At no point were they left alone or helpless. Vidur arranged for their extrication and passage into hidimbvan. Vyasa after Ghato before Ekchakra guides them and arranges their stay. Then again returns and guides them to Kampilya.

Kunti and Yudhishtir may have not felt the need to contact Krishna at the time. They followed Vyasa and he had plan and they were safe though not living as prince but wandering mendicants.

2) Krishna would've contacted them.

Not necessary. He may have suspected they may be alive, but he had far bigger problems to deal with. Balram had accused him of theivery and left him. Akrura had vanished with all the money. Kritaverma was his enemy close by. His army was still recovering from the war with Jarasandh. He did not have time to do social service. Specially since Pandavs themselves even if alive were powerless refugees. He had to get his house in order before he could contact and help Pandavas

3) Kunti never returned to her bio family at any instance.

Yes she did not, I said Pandavas visited, I didnt say Kunti did. It is not necessary that Kunti has to go with them. Also in Adiparva Bhima's training with balram is mentioned at the same time as Arjun's advnced training with Drona and Sahadev's training with brihaspati. This was before Lakshagriha. Not later. Duryodhan trains after Lakshagriha.

Drona training Vrishnis is mentioned in the same section. We know satyaki and gada (from southern recenssion, subhadra haran) were his students and they were also friends with Duryodhan at the time as per Dury satyaki convo in the war.

So there is every opportunity for YANS to meet Bhima in Dwarka or Krishna to visit gurukul to meet satyaki and gada. Gurukul is not part of the palace and may not even be near Hastinapur

And at both situations it is perfectly reasonable to presume Krishna did not meet Kunti.

4) Kunti mentioned Vasudeva and Shurasena only once and that was with bitter feelings.

Yes the same Kunti cries to Akrura about the persecution her sons are facing and asks him to inform Krishna. This is there in Bhagvatham and Harivansh. Kunti may have her issues with her fsther and brother, but she kept her sons before her own feelings always. Most importantly she always was nice with krishna

Add to those:

5) Krishna supposedly didn't know Arjuna was exiled until the 12th year (or 13th month).

That is after Draupadi swayamvr, and has got nothing to do with their first meeting

And beholding those elephants in rut--the five (Pandavas)--attracted towards Draupadi like mighty elephants towards a lake overgrown with lotuses, or like fire covered with ashes, Krishna the foremost of Yadu heroes began to reflect. And he said unto Rama (Valadeva), 'That is Yudhishthira; that is Bhima with Jishnu (Arjuna); and those are the twin heroes.' And Rama surveying them slowly cast a glance of satisfaction at Krishna.

How did Krishna recognize them here if he had not seen them before. This is at the start of the swayamvar.

Arjun had not walked into limelight or won the contest. Bhima had not uprooted the tree yet.

Pandavas were standing quietly in a crowd of Brahmans in a similar get up.

By the way I read the next section again. After Bhima uproots the tree, Krishna says its confirmed these are pandavas. Krishna tells Balram he heard that Pandavas had escaped. So word was sent to him, probably through Vidur or his wife, Krishna's aunt

Originally posted by: Chiillii

And beholding those elephants in rut--the five (Pandavas)--attracted towards Draupadi like mighty elephants towards a lake overgrown with lotuses, or like fire covered with ashes, Krishna the foremost of Yadu heroes began to reflect. And he said unto Rama (Valadeva), 'That is Yudhishthira; that is Bhima with Jishnu (Arjuna); and those are the twin heroes.' And Rama surveying them slowly cast a glance of satisfaction at Krishna.

How did Krishna recognize them here if he had not seen them before. This is at the start of the swayamvar.

Arjun had not walked into limelight or won the contest. Bhima had not uprooted the tree yet.

Pandavas were standing quietly in a crowd of Brahmans in a similar get up.

By the way I read the next section again. After Bhima uproots the tree, Krishna says its confirmed these are pandavas. Krishna tells Balram he heard that Pandavas had escaped. So word was sent to him, probably through Vidur or his wife, Krishna's aunt

I always had this question in my mind how could Krishna identity Pandavas without meeting them , he may had heard about them before.

But if he had just heard about them or only seen their painting how did he recognise them disguised as brahmins with matted hair, amongst other brahmins who were in the same get up.

And he actually recognises yudhishtir first. Not even balram whom he may have met in dwarka

Originally posted by: Chiillii

@Chili

1. Vyasa visted them after Ghatotkatcha was born IIRC. So after more than a year of wandering in the wilderness. They were alone all that time and never ONCE considered contacting Krishna. Nor did he consider contacting them. Not likely if they knew each other.

2. Once again, Krishna was not in disguise. There was no need for him to introduce himself if he already knew them.

3. His words make it clear Pandavas had no clue he even suspected they were still alive.

The first meeting of Pandavas and Krishna was in the post swayamvar scene.