~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 61

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

He wouldn't have suggested Haran if it wasn't for their friendship.

They might not have been bffs back then, but they definitely were friends even before that

Haran was politics, nor friendship

Originally posted by: NoraSM

When Arjuna reached Prabhas Patan, Krishna is described as his friend

I think Krishna visited them when they were building Indraprasth

Krishna stayed with them for a while in Khandava. But the BFF mentions start after Khandavadahana

Krishna meeting YANS is my opinion based on what I read in the text. May or may not be true

But Balram did train Bhima before Lakshagriha and this is given in MB.

It is given before Lakshagriha so it happened before lakshagriha not later.

So Balram and Krishna meeting Bhima is a fact not my opinion.

My opinion is that since Krishna's brothers trained with pandavas and bhima trained with Krishna's brother is a fact. Possibility, opportunity and means exist that Krishna met rest of them. He could not have recognized them otherwise.

You are ignoring that Dwapar Yuga people lived formal lives and at that point anyways Krishna and Pandavas specifically Arjun were not close friends to be casual and be hi dude, so you did get out huh...

That was an era of formality and unless bosom buddies are involved, following protocols was the norm. I wont consider Krishna's introduction as anything but.

And Yudhishtir does not fail to recognize Krishna. He is surprised they recognized him and his brothers and landed up there.

By the way, if I am wrong how did Krishna recognize them in the crowd without meeting them. I am sure you dont believe in divinity.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Haran was politics, nor friendship

Thou krishna had his reasons behind arjun Subhadra marriage but Subhadra still was his sister , he will not want bad 4 her , he would be knowing what kind of person arjun is .

I can keep this much trust on him .

@FlauntPessimism

Vaisampayana said, 'Asked by Dhritarashtra to give his opinion, Bhishma replied, 'O Dhritarashtra, a quarrel with the Pandavas is what I can never approve of. As thou art to me, so was Pandu without doubt. And the sons of Gandhari are to me, as those of Kunti. I should protect them as well as I should thy sons, O Dhritarashtra! And, O king, the Pandavas are as much near to me as they are to prince Duryodhana or to all the other Kurus. Under these circumstances a quarrel with them is what I never like. Concluding a treaty with those heroes, let half the land be given unto them

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01206.htm

Read this link

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Krishna meeting YANS is my opinion based on what I read in the text. May or may not be true

But Balram did train Bhima before Lakshagriha and this is given in MB.

It is given before Lakshagriha so it happened before lakshagriha not later.

So Balram and Krishna meeting Bhima is a fact not my opinion.

My opinion is that since Krishna's brothers trained with pandavas and bhima trained with Krishna's brother is a fact. Possibility, opportunity and means exist that Krishna met rest of them. He could not have recognized them otherwise.

You are ignoring that Dwapar Yuga people lived formal lives and at that point anyways Krishna and Pandavas specifically Arjun were not close friends to be casual and be hi dude, so you did get out huh...

That was an era of formality and unless bosom buddies are involved, following protocols was the norm. I wont consider Krishna's introduction as anything but.

And Yudhishtir does not fail to recognize Krishna. He is surprised they recognized him and his brothers and landed up there.

By the way, if I am wrong how did Krishna recognize them in the crowd without meeting them. I am sure you dont believe in divinity.

That Bheema was a student of Balram is in MBh. Not that he went to Balram BEFORE lac house.

Balram, per HV, started his gada training school after the quarrel with Krishna. THAT happened after lac house.

Here is the link:

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_39.html

During the period of balarAma’s stay at mithila city, duryodhana of kauravA-s went to mithila and learned the intricacies of mace-fight from balarAma...

In addition, if Balram met Bheema there, Krishna is not said to be part of it. In fact, if I'm reading HV correctly (same link), Krishna definitely was not part of it.

------

If Yudhishtira intends who Krishna was, there would've been no need for introduction. Surprise or no surprise is assumption. Intro is given in text.

I'm not ignoring Dwapara yuga conventions at all. If you check Krishna's arrivals in scenes after swayamvar, they're a LOT less formal.

Yes i have said repeatedly Duryodhan learned at mithila. Not bhima

Duryodhan and bhima did not learn together.

First bhima did after completing gurukul before lakshagriha. That is given in MB, very clearly that Yudhishtir was coronated crown prince, and bhima went to train with sankarshana, arjun continued with drona till he got brahmashira.

Dury.learned after lakshagriha that is given in HV

Dury and Bhima did not learn together. They did not have to learn together. There is no confusion here

First bhima.went came.back stronger and better than dury. Then lakshagriha happened dury found out Balram has left krishna, he went appeased balram and became his student.

You still havent said How Krishn recognized pandavas without meeting them. And without oandavas informing him as per you.

Krishna was born in same year as Arjuna, How old are we considering Arjuna during Draupadi's Swayamvar?

If they were interconnected enough to have same Gurus, I think its possible that they met before but Pandavas being Kurus and Kunti not liking her mayka, didn't leave a good impression of that side of the family for Pandavas

They didn't know Krishna, their cousin who is same age as Arjuna,.can help them. Krishna wasn't a King and From what I read Yadavas had their own problems

After Swayamvar, Krishna helped them financially, This was a huge ehsan on Pandavas, they were obviously in better terms with Krishna after this

Vaisampayana continued, 'After the expiration, O king, of a year from this, Dhritarashtra, moved by kindness for the people, installed Yudhishthira, the son of Pandu, as the heir-apparent of the kingdom on account of his firmness, fortitude, patience, benevolence, frankness and unswerving honesty (of heart). And within a short time Yudhishthira, the son of Kunti, by his good behaviour, manners and close application to business, overshadowed the deeds of his father. And the second Pandava, Vrikodara, bega

to receive continued lessons from Sankarshana (Valarama) in encounters with the sword and the mace and on the chariot. And after Bhima's education was finished, he became in strength like unto Dyumatsena himself and continuing to live in harmony with his brothers, he began to exert his prowess. And Arjuna became celebrated for the firmness of his grasp (of weapons), for his lightness of motion, precision of aim, and his proficiency in the use of the Kshura, Naracha, Vala and Vipatha weapons, indeed, of all weapons, whether straight or crooked or heavy. And Drona certified that there was none in the world who was equal to Arjuna in lightness of hand and general proficiency.

"One day, Drona, addressing Arjuna before the assembled Kaurava princes, said, 'There was a disciple of Agastya in the science of arms called Agnivesa. He was my preceptor and I, his disciple. By ascetic merit I obtained from him a weapon called Brahmasira which could never be futile

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Yes i have said repeatedly Duryodhan learned at mithila. Not bhima

Duryodhan and bhima did not learn together.

First bhima did after completing gurukul before lakshagriha. That is given in MB, very clearly that Yudhishtir was coronated crown prince, and bhima went to train with sankarshana, arjun continued with drona till he got brahmashira.

Dury.learned after lakshagriha that is given in HV

Dury and Bhima did not learn together. They did not have to learn together. There is no confusion here

First bhima.went came.back stronger and better than dury. Then lakshagriha happened dury found out Balram has left krishna, he went appeased balram and became his student.

You still havent said How Krishn recognized pandavas without meeting them. And without oandavas informing him as per you.

Krishna only SUSPECTED them of being Pandavas:

Once again, from CE:

ishampayana said, ‘Hearing the words of their eldest brother, all of Pandu’s sons, of infinite

energy, were pleased and began to think about the purport of those words. Suspecting them

to be the foremost of the Kurus, the chief of the Vrishnis43 and Rohini’s son

44 then came to

the potter’s house, where those foremost among men were living. Krishna and Rohini’s son

saw Ajatashatru,45 with long and thick arms, seated there. In a circle around him sat the

others, like blazing fires. Vasudeva went to Kunti’s son, foremost among those who follow

dharma. He touched with his hands the feet of King Ajamidha46 Yudhishthira and said, “I am

Krishna.” Rohini’s son went to Yudhishthira and did the same. Seeing them, the descendants

of Kuru were greatly delighted. O chief of the Bharata lineage! The chiefs of the Yadu lineage

then touched the feet of their father’s sister.47

‘Seeing Krishna, Ajatashatru, chief among the Kurus, asked him about his welfare and said,

“O Vasudeva! When we are living here in disguise, how did you manage to track us down?”

Vasudeva smiled and replied, “O king! Even when fire is covered, it comes out. Who but the

Pandavas can display such valour among men? O destroyers of enemies! It was through good

fortune that you escaped from that fire. It was through good fortune that Dhritarashtra’s evil

son and his advisers did not succeed in their desires. Be blessed. Prosper, the way a fire

hidden in a cave gradually expands and spreads. Permit us to return to camp. Otherwise, the

kings may discover you.” Then, taking permission from the Pandavas, the eternally radiant

one quickly went away, accompanied by Baladeva.

------

At no point does MBh say Bheema went to Balram BEFORE Lac House for gada instruction. Nor do HV or SB.