~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 56

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Bheema trained under Balram when Balram accuses Krishna of murder and thievery and leaves Dwaraka in a huff.

This was after Pandavas were supposed to have died in lac garh.

Since Pandavas were not in a position to send Bheema off on training, then this was after swayamvara

I don't know full story, I am seeing so many new names 🤣 confused as hell

First thing, Dury, Karna etc don't recognize Pandavas so Balaram not recognizing them is indication of Pandavas in disguise

I don't see unfamiliarity in their interactions

Krishna doesn't interact with Draupadi or even asks about her, If his relationship with Pandavas started with his closeness towards Draupadi there should have been SOME interaction between these two.

, 'I am Krishna.'

p. 382

[paragraph continues] And the son of Rohini (Valadeva) also approaching Yudhishthira, did the same. And the Pandavas, beholding Krishna and Valadeva, began to express great delight. And, O thou foremost of the Bharata race, those heroes of the Yadu race thereafter touched also the feet of Kunti, their father's sister. And Ajatasatru, that foremost of the Kuru race, beholding Krishna, enquired after his well-being and asked, 'How, O Vasudeva, hast thou been able to trace us, as we are living in disguise?' And Vasudeva, smilingly answered, 'O king, fire, even if it is covered, can be known. Who else among men than the Pandavas could exhibit such might? Ye resisters of all foes, ye sons of Pandu, by sheer good fortune have ye escaped from that fierce fire. And it is by sheer good fortune alone that the wicked son of Dhritarashtra and his counsellors have not succeeded in accomplishing their wishes. Blest be ye! And grow ye in prosperity like a fire in a cave gradually growing and spreading itself all around. And lest any of the monarchs recognise ye, let us return to our tent.' Then, obtaining Yudhishthira's leave, Krishna of prosperity knowing no decrease, accompanied by Valadeva, hastily went away from the potter's abode.'"

That's it.

He says he is Krishna but Krishna who? Draupadi is Krishna, Arjuna is Krishna, Yudi addressed him as Vasudev

Krishna knows everything which happened to Pandavas, so I am thinking Chilli is right about Krishna and Balaram going to their cremation

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I don't know full story, I am seeing so many new names 🤣 confused as hell

First thing, Dury, Karna etc don't recognize Pandavas so Balaram not recognizing them is indication of Pandavas in disguise

I don't see unfamiliarity in their interactions

Krishna doesn't interact with Draupadi or even asks about her, If his relationship with Pandavas started with his closeness towards Draupadi there should have been SOME interaction between these two.

, 'I am Krishna.'

p. 382

[paragraph continues] And the son of Rohini (Valadeva) also approaching Yudhishthira, did the same. And the Pandavas, beholding Krishna and Valadeva, began to express great delight. And, O thou foremost of the Bharata race, those heroes of the Yadu race thereafter touched also the feet of Kunti, their father's sister. And Ajatasatru, that foremost of the Kuru race, beholding Krishna, enquired after his well-being and asked, 'How, O Vasudeva, hast thou been able to trace us, as we are living in disguise?' And Vasudeva, smilingly answered, 'O king, fire, even if it is covered, can be known. Who else among men than the Pandavas could exhibit such might? Ye resisters of all foes, ye sons of Pandu, by sheer good fortune have ye escaped from that fierce fire. And it is by sheer good fortune alone that the wicked son of Dhritarashtra and his counsellors have not succeeded in accomplishing their wishes. Blest be ye! And grow ye in prosperity like a fire in a cave gradually growing and spreading itself all around. And lest any of the monarchs recognise ye, let us return to our tent.' Then, obtaining Yudhishthira's leave, Krishna of prosperity knowing no decrease, accompanied by Valadeva, hastily went away from the potter's abode.'"

That's it.

He says he is Krishna but Krishna who? Draupadi is Krishna, Arjuna is Krishna, Krishna knows everything which happened to Pandavas, so I am thinking Chilli is right about Krishna and Balaram going to their cremation

Introduction isn't done to someone you already know.

As I listed previously, if they knew each other before that scene:

1) Pandavas would've contacted Krishna, not decided to kill themselves (IIRC) when they were wandering around as poor beggars.

2) Krishna would've contacted them.

3) Kunti never returned to her bio family at any instance.

4) Kunti mentioned Vasudeva and Shurasena only once and that was with bitter feelings

Add to those:

5) Krishna supposedly didn't know Arjuna was exiled until the 12th year (or 13th month).

Krishna drapaudi s closeness can easily be grasped by that he and his entire family was present in drapaudi none of them participated clearly they were from brude s side

the gift that krishna gives to pandavas on their wedding to panchali.

Vaisampayana continued, 'After the sons of Pandu had been married, Hari (Krishna) sent unto them (as presents) various gold ornaments set with pearls and black gems (lapis lazuli). And Madhava (Krishna) also sent unto them costly robes manufactured in various countries, and many beautiful and soft blankets and hides of great value, and many costly beds and carpets and vehicles. He also sent them vessels by hundreds, set with gems and diamonds. And Krishna also gave them female servants by thousands, brought from various countries, and endued with beauty, youth and accomplishments and decked with every ornament. He also gave them many well-trained elephants brought from the country of Madra, and many excellent horses in costly harness, cars drawn by horses of excellent colours and large teeth. The slayer of Madhu, of immeasurable soul, also sent them coins of pure gold by crores upon crores in separate heaps. And Yudhishthira the just, desirous of gratifying Govinda, accepted all those presents with great joy

Had he been there as Pandavas s cousin more than drapaudi s best friend he as their brother would have taken the responsibility to present gifts to the bride s side considering pandavas were not in condition to do that.

Plus drapaud invited him to stay with them

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Introduction isn't done to someone you already know.

As I listed previously, if they knew each other before that scene:

1) Pandavas would've contacted Krishna, not decided to kill themselves (IIRC) when they were wandering around as poor beggars.

2) Krishna would've contacted them.

3) Kunti never returned to her bio family at any instance.

4) Kunti mentioned Vasudeva and Shurasena only once and that was with bitter feelings

Add to those:

5) Krishna supposedly didn't know Arjuna was exiled until the 12th year (or 13th month).

"I am Krishna" is not an introduction, reason being Krishna as you stated was his physical description and Draupadi's name, was Krishna his given name?

Pandavas didn't contact anyone, Shalya is in Swayamvar fighting against Madri's kids

And Karna endued with great energy rushed against Jishnu for fight. And Salya the mighty king of Madra rushed against Bhima like an elephant rushing against another for the sake of a she-elephant in heat; while Duryodhana and others engaged with the Brahmanas, skirmished with them lightly and carelessly.

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Krishna drapaudi s closeness can easily be grasped by that he and his entire family was present in drapaudi none of them participated clearly they were from brude s side

the gift that krishna gives to pandavas on their wedding to panchali.

Vaisampayana continued, 'After the sons of Pandu had been married, Hari (Krishna) sent unto them (as presents) various gold ornaments set with pearls and black gems (lapis lazuli). And Madhava (Krishna) also sent unto them costly robes manufactured in various countries, and many beautiful and soft blankets and hides of great value, and many costly beds and carpets and vehicles. He also sent them vessels by hundreds, set with gems and diamonds. And Krishna also gave them female servants by thousands, brought from various countries, and endued with beauty, youth and accomplishments and decked with every ornament. He also gave them many well-trained elephants brought from the country of Madra, and many excellent horses in costly harness, cars drawn by horses of excellent colours and large teeth. The slayer of Madhu, of immeasurable soul, also sent them coins of pure gold by crores upon crores in separate heaps. And Yudhishthira the just, desirous of gratifying Govinda, accepted all those presents with great joy

Had he been there as Pandavas s cousin more than drapaudi s best friend he as their brother would have taken the responsibility to present gifts to the bride s side considering pandavas were not in condition to do that.

Plus drapaud invited him to stay with them

This is what I thought, Krishna was Ladkiwala but is there anything apart of "I am Krishna" to suggest that he didn't meet Pandavas before? He did recognize them

Intro is not the only point. If they knew each other, why didn't Pandavas go to Krishna for help? They actually decided to die IIRC.

THAT intro, therefore is an actual intro.

The only famous Krishna of the time was Krishna Govinda. Text even says Arjuna's fame started after swayamvar. Also, Arjuna as Krishna is only mentioned as description. Arjuna is never called Krishna in text. Krishna Panchali is pronounced differently in Sanskrit with a prolonged A.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

This is what I thought, Krishna was Ladkiwala but is there anything apart of "I am Krishna" to suggest that he didn't meet Pandavas before? He did recognize them

Where and when? Pandavas' time from birth is accounted for by Vyasa.

Krishna's has a lot of ambiguity but not Pandavas'.

Panchali's childhood is of course unknown, so THAT friendship could've been any time.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

"I am Krishna" is not an introduction, reason being Krishna as you stated was his physical description and Draupadi's name, was Krishna his given name?

Pandavas didn't contact anyone, Shalya is in Swayamvar fighting against Madri's kids

And Karna endued with great energy rushed against Jishnu for fight. And Salya the mighty king of Madra rushed against Bhima like an elephant rushing against another for the sake of a she-elephant in heat; while Duryodhana and others engaged with the Brahmanas, skirmished with them lightly and carelessly.

Why will he go around giving his physical description to every other person as soon as he encounters them?? It is actually very weird that go to meet your relative and first thing you say is how you look 😆

Bhima was not madri s son he was kunti s son. Nakula and sahadev had already left with yudhishtra even before the fight broke out. And karna and duryodhan were not able to recognise bheem or arjuna even though they had spent quite a lot of time with pandavas growing up how to you expect shyla to recognise his long forgotten sisters step sons

Originally posted by: NoraSM

"I am Krishna" is not an introduction, reason being Krishna as you stated was his physical description and Draupadi's name, was Krishna his given name?

Pandavas didn't contact anyone, Shalya is in Swayamvar fighting against Madri's kids

And Karna endued with great energy rushed against Jishnu for fight. And Salya the mighty king of Madra rushed against Bhima like an elephant rushing against another for the sake of a she-elephant in heat; while Duryodhana and others engaged with the Brahmanas, skirmished with them lightly and carelessly.

Bheema was not Madri's kid.

Seriously... do we think Krishna went to his aunt and said "I am dark in color"?

It was an intro.