~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 39

And why will Bhishma ask Duryodhan to poison Bheem? I also think its too much to expect that he knew everything. He is human it's possible for him to not be aware of a lot of things. I don't think he would be interested in what children were doing. Poisoning is not a natural thing young children do. Moreover, had Bhishma done it himself he would have done it more categorically and made sure Bheem is properly KILLED rather than come back alive. He didn't do it.

I also don't understand why history will be so kind to him. The misdeeds of Duryodhan came forward, the misdeeds of Karna came forward. Moreover even Drona, Shakuni etc are exposed why will Bhishma be spared. He was not even openly supporting Pandavas.

Why allow Partition and give even half kingdom to Kunti's kid?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Bheeshm did vow Satyavati lineage (not sure if he knew about Vyas). Aside Bheeshm was never told about Niyog of Kunti unlike Satyavati who took permission from Bheeshm

Won't bheesam know about pandu's curse ? So it was but obvious bheesam knew how Kunti madri r getting kids , pandu would had definitely told him that . If bheesam was against Kunti's niyog then he would had expressed his displeasure to pandu.

Well I only know about curse theory , if pandu was impotent then also bheesam was fully aware how these kids r taking birth.

I guess everyone knew about Pandavas being son of demigods

Satyavati was born from a fish ,was adopted by her father , satyavati was great beauty but only problem was she had very bad odour like dead fish , that why she got name matsyagandha .

When rishi parasar wanted 2 have intercourse with her , initially she refused but later kept three conditions.

1) her virginity should not be broken which rishi assured once she will regain her virginity after child birth.

2) nobody should see them having intercourse , rishi created an invisible wall covering themfrom his powers.

3) her bad odour should be changed into a pleasent odour , which rishi granted & she became yojangandha from matsyagandha.

Satyavati abonden vedvyas after birth only never disclosed about him 2 anyone.

Like draupadi even satyavati was yojangandha .

Satyavati kept vedvyas birth as secret so she never disclosed it 2 Shantanu , bheesam & her father.

Who will marry her if anyone know about her child before marriage.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

@bold -

They weren't powerful as Kids

And It wad Bhishma who appointed Drona as their teacher so Arjuna learnt everything because of Bhishma

Exactly if bheesham was so against pandavas then he will make sure Pandavas don't get proper education , Pandavas were better than kauravs .

1) bheem was highly qualified mace fighter.

2) arjun was highly qualified archer

3) nakul , Sahdev excellent horse rider & excellent sword fighter.

Fo Yudi I read he 2 was a good warrior

Why will bheesam take so much pain ? Bheesam appointed drona as teacher of both kaurav pandavas.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

And why will Bhishma ask Duryodhan to poison Bheem? I also think its too much to expect that he knew everything. He is human it's possible for him to not be aware of a lot of things. I don't think he would be interested in what children were doing. Poisoning is not a natural thing young children do. Moreover, had Bhishma done it himself he would have done it more categorically and made sure Bheem is properly KILLED rather than come back alive. He didn't do it.

I also don't understand why history will be so kind to him. The misdeeds of Duryodhan came forward, the misdeeds of Karna came forward. Moreover even Drona, Shakuni etc are exposed why will Bhishma be spared. He was not even openly supporting Pandavas.

Why allow Partition and give even half kingdom to Kunti's kid?

Why didn't Pandavas tell Bheeshm that Bheem was posioned? Just give me one reason for it. Just simply that someone posioned Bheem no need to give him details on the culprit, but not even the statement, that could be only because they didn't expect Bheeshm to be neutral. And the protectors of the royal family didn't know about attacks on them?? He was highly inefficient then.

Partition happened only after Pandavas had Panchal support, and then too they were given the barren land filled with robbers and infiltrators. Would a neutral Bheeshm not at least once object to such uneven partition.

Aside even after the partition, the Pandavas were still Kuru protectorate, they later did Rajsuya to completely free themselves.

So what he did was simply give the Kunti's sons some barren land filled with infiltrators under Kuru domination because the latter had Panchal support now.

Yes Bheeshm was unsuccessful in killing Pandavas if you think that's an indication that he wasn't involved then about history being neutral it's also to Yudhishtir. A complete Yaksh Prashna chapter was added just to establish his Dharmaraj image. Pandavas needed to propogate that all the elders were willing for Pandavas victory so he had to projected as a saint, though his actions speak otherwise

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Won't bheesam know about pandu's curse ? So it was but obvious bheesam knew how Kunti madri r getting kids , pandu would had definitely told him that . If bheesam was against Kunti's niyog then he would had expressed his displeasure to pandu.

Well I only know about curse theory , if pandu was impotent then also bheesam was fully aware how these kids r taking birth.

I guess everyone knew about Pandavas being son of demigods

Obviously Bheeshm knew that Kunti and Madri aren't getting pregnant by Pandu, he knew it was Niyog but it was a Niyog done Without his permission, that is what differenciates it from the Niyog of Ambika and Ambalika.

And on what basis could he express his displeasure? Sending his wives for Niyog was Pandu's right, not being able to object doesn't mean liking it.

Aside it's not about liking/disliking it's about priority. Had Vichitraveer borne one of his wives a son and other wife would have had it through Niyog, he would have preferred the lineage of biological child , now since that didn't happen and only Niyog children were in contention, he selected purely on merit basis.

Come next generation, again the same situation one side biological other side Kshetraj, obviously this time biological gets a clear preference.

Had Duryodhan not been there, Bheeshm would have had no objection to Yudhishtir

About curse and divine birth we are talking on what could have happened, not on believes and both of those are not possible in reality

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Exactly if bheesham was so against pandavas then he will make sure Pandavas don't get proper education , Pandavas were better than kauravs .

1) bheem was highly qualified mace fighter.

2) arjun was highly qualified archer

3) nakul , Sahdev excellent horse rider & excellent sword fighter.

Fo Yudi I read he 2 was a good warrior

Why will bheesam take so much pain ? Bheesam appointed drona as teacher of both kaurav pandavas.

Bheeshm couldn't openly discriminate since Pandavas had sage support. He had therefore same teacher for all, Drona had nothing against Pandavas, he saw that they were better so made them great

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Satyavati was born from a fish ,was adopted by her father , satyavati was great beauty but only problem was she had very bad odour like dead fish , that why she got name matsyagandha .

When rishi parasar wanted 2 have intercourse with her , initially she refused but later kept three conditions.

1) her virginity should not be broken which rishi assured once she will regain her virginity after child birth.

2) nobody should see them having intercourse , rishi created an invisible wall covering themfrom his powers.

3) her bad odour should be changed into a pleasent odour , which rishi granted & she became yojangandha from matsyagandha.

Satyavati abonden vedvyas after birth only never disclosed about him 2 anyone.

Like draupadi even satyavati was yojangandha .

Satyavati kept vedvyas birth as secret so she never disclosed it 2 Shantanu , bheesam & her father.

Who will marry her if anyone know about her child before marriage.

These born from fish or virginity after childbirth etc. is not practically possible so definitely let's not go there

She did Brahmin sewa to beget Parashar a son. Parashar took the son n left, Vyas knew that Satyavati is his mother. Aside Satyavati wasn't a big princess to have hid her pregnancy for months unlike Kunti. Definitely people knew about it

She didn't hesitate to tell about Vyas as need arose unlike Kunti who didn't reveal even when it was known that Pandu won't have children

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

How do we know he was not informed? On one hand we are claiming that he has a network of spies and he knew about everything going on and one of the reasoning is why he didn't help Pandavas. Now on other hand we are saying he did not know about niyog of Pandu. This is contradicting. Also Bhishma is not stupid, he would know very well Pandu is impotent. These boons and curses are to fool common people as for them Royal lineage and kings are representatives of God on Earth. Bhishma doesn't need to believe in all this hogwash IMO. So obviously if he can know about everything from Kunti's son to other things he not knowing about niyog is strange.

I have said things in reply to other points in my other posts about Karna birth as well.

Also, coming to his vow - he said -

Vaisampayana continued, 'O thou of Bharata's race, Devavrata, having heard these words, and moved by the desire of benefiting his father thus answered in the hearing of the assembled chiefs, 'O foremost of truthful men, listen to the vow I utter! The man has not been or will not be born, who will have the courage to take such a vow! I shall accomplish all that thou demandest! The son that may be born of this maiden shall be our king.'

Technically, taking this for word, Satya's dad's fear was Satya's sons won't be King and Bhishma's sons won't let Satya's grandchildren be kings. Tbh, Satya's sons did inherit the throne and become kings ie her two proper legitimate sons with Shantanu. If we are taking the vow word by word Bhishma did keep his word. There is no mention of him having to work hard to continue that Satya's lineage continue to inherit the throne. For that, he decided not to marry and follow Brahmacharya.

Just like no mention of him being loyal to throne of HP, there is no mention of him having to work to make sure satya's lineage continue to get the throne. Her sons did become king and then died and Bhishma's sons never existed. So he did keep his vow and he didn't have to check to it that Satyas lineage that too from a premarital sexual hospitality relationship had to endure.

Honestly speaking both Kurti and Satya faced same thing. One side he is working to make lineage of satya's illegitimate son gets throne while he is against Kunti's same case is not viable

There is a difference between not being told and not knowing. The decision was taken without informing him ( no mention that Pandu asked for his permission or even informed him) he definitely knew but he wasn't a part of decision making

Pandu did it himself without his advice, Satyavati took his permission, can't you see the difference

Agreed he didn't say Satyavati's lineage but that's what was implied. Again as i have mentioned in other post it's priorities

Originally posted by: NoraSM

@bold -

They weren't powerful as Kids

And It wad Bhishma who appointed Drona as their teacher so Arjuna learnt everything because of Bhishma

The bold statement was on why didn't he kill in war.

As kids why his plan failed has been iterated multiple times by me, Vidur was smart and Bheeshm couldn't kill in open

Again he couldn't differentiate, Drona taught Both families and had no bias, Pandavas were better