||All the righteous men wronged a woman :~(||

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Myraa sengupta

@Myraluvpanchali

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#31

@riti4u:it's ok,and wonderful post 😊 I agree wid you.

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#32

Being forgiven only means the Pandavas regretted their actions and were willing to set things right

That is why Krishna was on their side if think

If doesn't mean they did nothing wrong

But the rest were either evil or unwilling to fix things (whatever personal reasons)

Edited by thearcher - 11 years ago

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Myraa sengupta

@Myraluvpanchali

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: thearcher
Being forgiven only means the Pandavas regretted their actions and were willing to set things right

That is why Krishna was on their side if think

If doesn't mean they did nothing wrong

But the rest were either evil or unwilling to fix things (whatever personal reasons)

Exactly.. 😛

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Medha.S

@Medha.S

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#34

Originally posted by: frappie
Medha i remember your post regarding this A man who rose above Dharma ...
Pandavas did pay for that incident. ...
Yuddhisthira during exile explained Draupadi about his helplessness.
I would like to second your thoughts
since Pandavas were helpless themselves , were victims of cheap conspiracy and didnot personally intend her insult they cannot be included in the list of Dury and co...
Yes even I feel very bad for them their self made majestic Indraprastha out of a barren land has been unrighteously snatched...

Other thing was that everyone says that the Kauravas and co. regretted what happened with Draupadi -- sorry to say but not once have i read them actually being sorry for what they did to her. It is not like they did not have the opportunity -- between that time and before the war, not once did they regret it. Duryodhana blabbering about what Karna and Dushasan did to her before his death doesnt really count.

People ask why Krishna took Pandavas side when they were at fault to -- well, Pandavas even in that situation never had any ill-will or devilish intentions towards the person who was faulted. Obviously, it does not change what happened with Draupadi.

But would Krishna, just see what Duri and Co. did to Draupadi or how much at fault the Pandavas themselves were and forget about the wrongs and treachery that was done to the Pandavas themselves? He was Draupadi's friend, he vowed to make her wish come true and bring her justice --- but he was also Pandavas friend, and he wished that they get their own justice too. Even when she had not forgiven Pandavas , it was Krishna who soothed her and promised that him and her husbands will bring her justice.

And it wasn't the Pandavas who wanted draupadi to be humiliated, they were not actively thinking about hurting her or wished for her humiliation either. Apart from Yudhishtira, Arjuna and Bhima and Sahdeva too blamed themselves too. You will find that in Vana Parva. They all point out why they will be killing Karna, Shakuni and Duri -- the 13 years they lived in forest and incognito -- they were thinking about all the humiliation and how they will avenge Draupadi.

While the Kauravas did what they did with Draupadi and wronged Pandavas highly, and did not even regret it. They had no guilty conscience. How you put the Pandavas and Bhishma in their category?

Kauravas and Karna and daddy were not helpless like the Pandavas. Moreover, had the situation been reversed - Pandavas touching Dhritrashtra's daughters-in-law, throwing her around and dragging them by hair in public? Yeah, right! That is the difference.

In the end yes, Draupadi was faulted - Everyone there was at fault. But saying that fault is a fault, you cant't measure it? Oh, please. Bullying and murdering, both are faults and both are punishable. Do both deserve death sentence for that? Pandavas repented for their fault while they lived, Kauravas and co. did not even tried to repent for it, and well, they were punished for it.

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Medha.S

@Medha.S

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: -Shani-

Bold - Medha, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

This is THE explanation I had been searching for, for such a long time.

You know, when it comes to Draupadi, it is so tempting to think like an "extreme" feminist, and label everybody guilty in the same measure.
Yes, I admit I have been guilty of the same as well...

BUT, most of us (including myself) keep forgetting THE most important thing -

Krishna continued to support the Pandavas even after everything happened.

So, there must've been a reason for it, right?
Heck, Krishna knows better than any of us...

It was Krishna who was Arjun's sarathi, right?

It was Krishna who was the main strategist and tactician of the Pandavas in the Kurukshetra War, right?

Yes, the Pandavas did not act, but as you have very clearly spelt out, they had NO ill will towards Draupadi. It's NOT like they decided,"Let us ruin the life of our wife forever..."
Okay, Yudi had his own set of priorities, but that is the kind of guy he was...so, take him or leave him.

Also, if the Pandavas wanted to INTENTIONALLY hurt Draupadi on THAT fateful day, then why did Bhim bother killing Keechak during the agyaatwaas? Why did he bother tearing Dushy's chest and drinking his blood? Why did Arjun bother killing Karna? Why did Sahdev bother killing Shakuni?
Hmmm...too much time on their hands, I guess...

Shani, your intentions and mentality while doing something always matters -- you can just cast that off aside and not care, obviously. But will it change the fact that there is always a difference between two people who deliberately say something hurtful to cause someone agony, and a person who said something unintentionally and obviously, it did not change the fact that the person was hurt too. But the person who did it unintentionally or had no ill-will or bad intentions, when realizing their mistake would regret it, feel guilty and apologize. While the former, would have the option to either not care or after some time, while feeling guilty for hurting someone knowingly, would feel regret. Again it won't change, that at some point they did it deliberately, with the intention to hurt and cause pain. Both the people were at fault, yes. But is it the same? Would they both receive the same kind of fruits for their Karma?

You could say, it is just excuses. But I think, that being ignorant and not seeing the difference, well, that is just an excuse. Oh, These guys murdered him -- And the dead guy's friends just stood there and didn't do anything -- Let punish them all, and hang them? Them for murdered and these guys for not stopping the murder?

It has been all said and done -- Pandavas received their punishment while they lived and they had not been thinking about the pleasure they will get out of seeing Draupadi getting dragged around and getting stripped, Kauravas and Friends were punished too -- not that they thought that they deserved any of it or really ever felt guilty about it-- Did they? I have not found anything which can show any of them felt any kind of regret for doing what they did to Draupadi, intentionally -- knowing that they were about to humiliate her, touch her wrongly in public, strip her in a court.

Point being, they all got what they deserved -- you can keep debating over how what they finally got was unfair or how Pandavas were at fault too and faults are all the same, not big or small. The thing is that it has already happened and done with. Nothing would change that in the, it wasn't the Pandavas who were killed ( and that too by cheating for being deceiving and unjust throughout their lives) for many wrongs, one of the biggest one being what they did to Draupadi.

And Krishna did take their side because Pandavas were wronged too -- Yes, Draupadi's verbal and physical abuse might not compare to the verbal humiliation Pandavas received or the Kingdom and Army and Wealth and Status that they lost -- all these earned through their own work -- not passed down from daddy dearest. But Krishna being angry on behalf of Draupadi and also, the Pandavas is really that shocking? Oh, how could he side with the Pandavas. Well excuse me, but even though Pandavas were at fault, they would never have behaved in such a way with any of the daughters-in-law of their uncle. Such thoughts won't even cross,not even because of impulsiveness or anger of the moment -- and two of the Pandavas were quite impulsive.And if it did, or they had tried to act upon it, they would be stuck by the fear of being disowned by Mommy Not to mention, that hurting someone intentionally with the mentality of causing despair is not a fault.That is the difference, and that is what Krishna saw and knew. He won't actually come down to argue in his defense because he doesn't owe anyone an explanation since he was a wiser and a philosopher with his knowledge hailed as one of the best philosophical works you will find today,and trillionths time more intelligent with an IQ hundreds of time the sum of the IQ of the more than 7 billion population of the world.

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riti4u

@riti4u

Stunner

+ 7

Posted: 11 years ago

#36

Oh, These guys murdered him -- And the dead guy's friends just stood there and didn't do anything -- Let punish them all, and hang them? Them for murdered and these guys for not stopping the murder

@Medha.S-You know I would like to respond to this point of yours where I do agree with most of what you have written . You know a girl few months back was pleading for help on roads of delhi and onlookers just passed by... That girl could have been alive if even one of them had shown some compassion that night... Oh definately those who did grave crime to girl deserves DEATH and they got too... But why those people who silently saw and left the place dont deserved to be blamed for death of that girl.. yes they were part of it..Definately they had no intentions of hurting her.. or even murdering him... but they could have saved her.. turning yourself blind into things happening around wont just make you saint and put others only on fault..

Here the girl being targetted was no stranger - She was their wife... Someone whom they had promised protection for life.

Yes they regretted... and their regret does show that they admitted their mistakes ..isnt it.. So saying they were at fault is not wrong .. Obviously when I said comparison.. is not needed in faults.. I definately meant that those who did crime were deserving of the punishment they got... and rest of them who watched silently somewhere or another paid price for that silence...

Edited by riti4u - 11 years ago

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LiNdASoUmZ

@LiNdASoUmZ

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#37

Originally posted by: Anmira67
Ok hi everyone n am not here to create any controversy.. 😛

DISCLAIMER:plz read this post very patiently and try to understand me,this post is not made to demean any character... 😛 as a woman,this is my point of view about a woman's insult.plz read this from a woman's perspective.

Many many years ago there lived many righteous men in dwapar yuga.they were known as the great warriors,the emblem of morality yet they failed a woman so miserably.The great bheeshma,dronacharya,vidura,karna,yudhishtira,bhima,Arjuna,nakula,sahadeva all known for their valour,dedication towards their duty/"DHARMA'',their morality but still wronged a woman in a way which was pathetic.
All these men were great,but did they believed that "A woman is not a doormat????" Not a public property,Not a "THING" to be disrespected,used???a question which often comes to my mind after thinking about vastraharan is that,whether they really respected a woman or not?just think people,what would have happened if draupadi would have really been disrobed?what if no one would have helped her?Yes,I do agree draupadi was a very strong woman,but would she have been able to LIVE again if she would have been disrobed?which punishment was she getting?she never called "a blind man's son is also blind"Infact it was her husbands except yudhishtira who laughed on duryodhan.so why was she getting punishment ??first of all bhim,Arjun,nakul,sahadev laughed but draupadi was dragged.all fault was theirs but none of the pandavas cared to stop dushasaan.

YUDHISHTIRA,gambled away his own wife...And didn't even cared to stand up for her even once...where was the DHARAMRAJ that day???

BHEEMSEN,yes did protested for his wife but eventually choosed his brother over his wife.didn't cared about the safety and honour of his wife...where was the MIGHTY Bheem that day??

ARJUNA,just silently watched his wife being gambled by his brother,being dragged like an animal in front of his family elders and choosed his brother over his own wife...where was the HRIDAY KA ATI KOMAL Arjun that day??

NAKULA & SAHADEVA,were quiet and just watched whatever was happening with a helpless woman,their wife...where were the POWERFUL & RIGHTEOUS sons of Madri that day?

KARNA,wasn't quiet but instead was abusing a helpless woman n provoking a man to disrobe a woman infront of her husbands and elders...where was the man who always had compassion for everyone,where was the DANVEER that day???

BHISHMA,was quiet very quiet n was letting everything happen...where was the RIGHTEOUS son of goddess Ganga that day??

VIDURA,was quietly watching the drama of a woman being disrobed...Where was the man who was always known for his courage to speak the TRUTH???

DRONACHARYA,was seeing his friend's daughter being disrobed...Now where was the GURU???

I always wonder,that what might be the reason that all these GREAT PEOPLE didn't even said a word that day??was it their duty,dharma,or their helplessness????BUT I believe that there cannot be any damn reason to see a woman being disrobed in front of so many people.
Whatever we say to defend them but yes vastraharan proves that they were not so great,if we see all this from a woman's perspective.The five pandavas may be the Heros of mahabharat but directly or indirectly they were also the villain of a woman's life.
And all this don't end here...there are many over smart people who claim that draupadi is a b****,wh***, b'coz she married 5 men and rejected karna.Not only this but draupadi is also known as a kritya~a woman responsible for the downfall of her family n also I found something more"ATI KESHA PATI NASHA~a woman wid long hairs destroys her husband,like really???i say if you have SuCh righteous men as your husbands n relatives then your life is destroyed.i don't understand why people hate draupadi without any proper knowledge?and always judge her character??if she wasn't a nice woman then why did god helped her???why don't people judge pandavas?n why is it so that if a woman have more than one husband she is considered to be a wh*** whereas if a man have more than one wife he is considered to be handsome,charming????
Now I'm really sorry if I crossed any limit.but I'm sorry I couldn't resist my self from posting this b'coz today I was abused and I was said that even I'm a bit** n wh**e b'coz I support draupadi
😡
Now I have one last message for all the draupadi haters,
"Love her or hate her,she will always be there on your mind..."

And draupadi,whatever you did wasn't only commendable but also phenomenal.you were the lady who dared to fight against all the odds n norms n demand respect for yourself.Hats off to you... 👏

@bold-awesome👍🏼

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Myraa sengupta

@Myraluvpanchali

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: .CrazySobtian.
@bold-awesome👍🏼

Thank you... 😛

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#39

Great post...👏

Yes, everyone that day, except Draupadi and Lord Krishna was at fault.

Everyone from the Pandavas and Kauravas and Karna and Bhishm, everyone was at fault.

Committing crime, and watching it silently are both wrong.

However, I agree with some people here. The degree of mistake made by the Pandavas and Kauravas are not the same.

The Pandavas were certainly wrong, but while judging this whole incident, one has to keep in mind, the age in which, this happened.

From what I have understood, after reading Mahabharat, words and promises, in those days, mattered a lot.

We may accuse Arjun for sharing his wife, for his mother's words, but I guess that's how it happened in those days. The same is true in this case as well. Though, there is no doubt that Yudisthir made a huge mistake by staking his wife, I guess, that "code" or "promise" mattered more to them.

It was Lord Krishna, who proved to them, that this "code" is not as important as is saving the person in distress at the moment.

So, yes, the Pandavas, were certainly at fault, but in my opinion, the mistakes committed by the Kauravas, Karna, Bhishm, etc were much more.

The Pandavas were bound by slavery, but what about Bhishm?

Was he a slave too? No.

Wat about Dhritarashtra?

He was the King.

One word from him would have stopped the whole incident, but he, despite, having the power to stop it, chose to remain silent.

And someone here asked, that y do some people hate Karna for this one mistake of calling Draupadi a prostitute?

Well, please understand, we don't blame Karna, just for calling Draupadi "unchaste".

We blame him, bcoz he was the one, who instigated Dushasen to disrobe Draupadi. He also said a few things more.

So, it' not just the "unchaste" comment, but a lot more that he said, that he is blamed for.

But, then, he repented his words later, something which Duryodhan never did, until right before his death(which doesn't count). And that is what makes him much, much better than the Kauravas.

But, let's not talk about this anymore, or it will start fights between fans, which I don't want.

As for Yudisthir, he was certainly wrong. But I guess, he did not realize that his one mistake will lead to such a debacle. Nonetheless, his mistake cannot be overlooked. Same, for the other 4 brothers as well.

Edited by amritat - 11 years ago

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Myraa sengupta

@Myraluvpanchali

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#40

Originally posted by: amritat
Great post...👏

Yes, everyone that day, except Draupadi and Lord Krishna wasat fault.



Everyone from the Pandavas and Kauravas and Karna and Bhishm, everyone was at fault.

Committing crime, and watching it silently are both wrong.

However, I agree with some people here. Thedegree of mistake made by the Pandavas and Kauravas are not the same.

The Pandavas were certainly wrong, but while judging this whole incident, one has to keep in mind, the age in which, this happened.

From what I have understood, after reading Mahabharat, words and promises, in those days, mattered a lot.

We may accuse Arjun for sharing his wife, for his mother's words, but I guess that's how it happened in those days. The same is true in this case as well. Though, there is no doubt that Yudisthir made a huge mistake by staking his wife, I guess, that "code" or "promise" mattered more to them.

It was Lord Krishna, whoproved to them, that this "code" is not as important as is saving the person in distress at the moment.

So, yes, the Pandavas, were certainly at fault, but in my opinion, the mistakes committed by the Kauravas, Karna, Bhishm, etc were much more.

The Pandavas were bound by slavery, but what about Bhishm?

Was he a slave too? No.

Wat about Dhritarashtra?

He was the King.

One word from him would have stopped the whole incident, but he, despite, having the power to stop it, chose to remain silent.

And someone here asked, that y do some people hateKarna for this one mistake of calling Draupadi a prostitute?

Well, pleaseunderstand, we don't blame Karna, just for callingDraupadi "unchaste".

We blame him, bcoz he was the one, who asked Dushasen to disrobe Draupadi. According to KMG, if I am not mistaken, he said that since Draupadi was unchaste, it didn'tmatter if she wasclothed or naked andalso asked Draupadi to select a husband from the Kauravas. As she had5 husbands, one more wouldn't mind. These were his words, according to KMG, if I'm not mistaken.

So, it' not just the "unchaste" comment,but a lot more that he said, that he is blamed for.

But, then, he repented his words later, something which Duryodhan never did, until right before his death(which doesn't count).

So, let's not talk about this anymore, or it will start more fights, which I don't want.

As for Yudisthir, he was certainly wrong. But I guess, he did not realize that his one mistake will lead to such a debacle. Nonetheless, his mistake cannot be overlooked. Same, for the other 4 brothers as well.

Thank you... 😊
And yes it is true that what pandavas did and what duryodhan n co.did was very different n there is a huge difference b/w both the cases.but the only truth which prevails is that,all the men present there were the culprits.and I agree wid u that bheeshma,vidura,drona were not slaves n if they wud have even said a word that time,this tragedy would have never happened.but alas,some morals n vows prevented them from opening their mouths.drithrashtra,I don't even want to speak about 🤢 n karna,I don't make any comments on him.but I agree wid you completely.

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||All the righteous men wronged a woman :~(|| - Page 4

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