Karna: Does He Deserve So Much Respect??[DT Note Page 15] - Page 12

Draupadi was not talking about Karna's cast, but his forefather's profession! As Karna said, "vansh". During the Mahabharata period, the varnashram (varna is profession not caste) system was very important. We should judge that society by the rules of that period and not by how Kaliyug is looked at. Please note on one similar circumstance , Karna, while meeting Kunti before the war keeps on calling her kshtriyani referring to her Varna. Therefore, it is not an insult. Calling someone a chartered account or a plumber is not an insult for the person. We should also keep in mind, that is was a swayamvar. The girl in question , here Draupadi was in her full rights to agree or disagree to marry someone. The word Swayamvar means "own" acceptance on var. panchali was rightfully deciding that she did not want to marry someone and gave a reason for it. Actually, even if any person succeeds in the challenge task, the princess could say no to that person. Invitation does not mean that the princess is bound to marry an invited person who succeed or may succeed!

I am sorry if the discussion was on something else.. I left the discussion today! So just giving my reasons for still not accepting it was Draupadi's mistake!

Originally posted by: frappie

Definitely after being attacked ruthlessly mericlessly he would be drenched in blood ..And I am sure if Karna or for that case any enemy from Kurus would be slain Abhimanyu wouldnt laugh and make merry upon killing his enemy...

hmmm after karna was dead pandavs did celebrate partha was hugged by krishna ji there were celebrations all around

after bhima killed dury he danced around his body i think the same was with dusashan

after gatotkacha was slain krishna ji was very happy that arjuna is safe now

if anyone wants i can share the citations as well

Originally posted by: amritat

That's exactly what I replied to Vrish.

He was probably not the mastermind of the Lakshagriha plot, but he was involved in it.

Whether u say that "he went with it" or whether I say that "he was involved in it", either way, he was a participant.

well if that is the case then why are pandavas being spared

even they were involved in killing of a nishada woman and her son's lakshagarah who got burned and killed so that panadavs can cover up their death

kunti might have been the mastermind but pandavs can also be considered to be involved then.Not sure how they are different from karna

can share citations again if any one wants

Originally posted by: VasusenaRadheya

I haven't gone sarcastic anywhere . There you go personal again . I was really stating to you what the rules are . If you find my comment sarcastic , then I can do nothing . 😳

Of course I have to read EVERY single comment , I may miss a post where everyone agreeing with my view point , but not one where view points are different and a debate is going on .

You only get enriched from reading or taking parts in healthy debates...my favorite teacher once told me . 😆

See , you only visit those 'horrible facebook pages' once a month , but still know everything about what crazy Karn fans are saying there against other characters of Mahabharat . Really commendable . 👏

Well, I used to visit those every day, a few months ago, i.e. when the Swamvar episode was going on.

Originally posted by: amritat

Well, I used to visit those every day, a few months ago, i.e. when the Swamvar episode was going on.

But I started staying away after things got really ugly.

Besides, I had mentioned about Arjun fans as well, being equally aggressive, in case u have missed that.

And I have also edited my main post, regarding the name of that "rival social networking site".

I really thought this post would get neutral reviews(if not positive), since I have talked about both the positives and negatives of Karna. I have talked about his mistakes, but also put emphasis on his great deeds.

And I mentioned my experience in social networking sites, so as to express the transformation that took place in my opinions from time to time. I did not realize that it would offend anyone.

And I thought, people would focus more on my what I have written about Karna, which most people here did.

But u are focussing on what I have written about "Karna fans", and not Karna himself.

If that's what caught your attention, then it's my failure as a writer.

Anyway, let's not argue on this anymore. Or else the mods will close the topic. If u want u can discuss about Karna here, u can do so.

Any further discussion on our own "personal retorting" will create chaos. Let's not do that.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

well if that is the case then why are pandavas being spared

even they were involved in killing of a nishada woman and her son's lakshagarah who got burned and killed so that panadavs can cover up their death

kunti might have been the mastermind but pandavs can also be considered to be involved then.Not sure how they are different from karna

can share citations again if any one wants

You are right. But u see, I was not really a fan of the Pandavas before. I was a fan of Karna.

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar

Draupadi was not talking about Karna's cast, but his forefather's profession! As Karna said, "vansh". During the Mahabharata period, the varnashram (varna is profession not caste) system was very important. We should judge that society by the rules of that period and not by how Kaliyug is looked at. Please note on one similar circumstance , Karna, while meeting Kunti before the war keeps on calling her kshtriyani referring to her Varna. Therefore, it is not an insult. Calling someone a chartered account or a plumber is not an insult for the person. We should also keep in mind, that is was a swayamvar. The girl in question , here Draupadi was in her full rights to agree or disagree to marry someone. The word Swayamvar means "own" acceptance on var. panchali was rightfully deciding that she did not want to marry someone and gave a reason for it. Actually, even if any person succeeds in the challenge task, the princess could say no to that person. Invitation does not mean that the princess is bound to marry an invited person who succeed or may succeed!

I am sorry if the discussion was on something else.. I left the discussion today! So just giving my reasons for still not accepting it was Draupadi's mistake!

Brishti, I think that debate is over.

Originally posted by: sweetangelpayal

Hey Amrita,

Probably I am super late in commenting here and from a look at the number of pages, the topic might have gone off track now. I haven't been an active member on IF since a year, although have always visited Mahabharat Forum, but I guess this is my first comment on this Forum😆 Just returned on IF after one year and this is my first comment after a year on IF as well, so I hope I do not blabber away much😛

First of all,, what a beautiful analysis. Now, I am a Huge Arjun fan, and my favourite characters in Mahabharat are Draupadi, Arjun, Abhimanyu and Krishna (Not necessarily in that order). But that in no way means I dislike Karna (I say dislike, not even hate, coz its a too strong term).

Karna is one of the very few characters (according to me, the only character) who wasn't classified as Good or Bad. And even though I never was a fan of Karna, the character always intrigued me. I mean look at the sides of Pandavas and Kauravas and pick a character, and very rarely will you find a person who supported bad, and was good at heart (Well, in my opinion he was.) So we had Duryodhon, Shakuni, Dushasan, etc, who we knew were bad (even though Duryodhan IS praised in many parts of India for his many good deed and generous nature, but that's another topic altogether), he was still put into the Bad Category.

The very fact that he denied the Throne, etc that Krishna said he would get if he switched sides, itself proves that he did not want riches, money, etc, fame(yes he did want to be known as the best archer but thats more for Respect than Fame). That made him Great

Now, Karna supported the wrong side, but he did so in his Dharma. Many even raise a question on why support your Dharma, when the Dharma you are supporting is Adharma. But think of it this way, if Karna had eventually switched sides after knowing the truth of his birth, he wouldn't have been respected this much.

Which brings us back to the very core of his character, The only thing he ever wanted was RESPECT. Nothing else. And that too, for his skills & talent. But he wanted that respect in the day and age where Bharata was living in the caste system(Which is still existent in many parts of India). Somehow, all his hatred towards people in the epic was because they had somehow insulted his up bringing and caste be it Draupadi or Bheem or the other Pandavas. Maybe he couldn't forget those insults and hence indulged in the bad deeds. Maybe he knew what he was doing was wrong but had to support Duryodhan anyway.

The only thing that marred his reputation (atleast for me) was the way they say he laughed when Abhimanyu was killed and the fact that he instigated the Vastra Haran. Perhaps it was the revengeful side of him that made him do all that.

Maybe the guilt of him plotting to kill the Pandavas, and his comments at the Vastra Haran made him do the noble deeds he did. That's the reason why he is respected perhaps.

Karna is a mystery and enigma, we know how Bhishma had been cursed as a Vasu and was re-born to suffer on earth, we know his story about Amba and his wait for the end of his life, we know how Draupadi in her previous birth had asked for a husband Five times to Lord Shiva and that's how she got the Pandavas, we know how and why Drona & Drupad were enemies. However, we just don't have any backdrop about Karna, or his previous birth which might have a connection with the happenings of his this birth (Karmic cycle). All we know is his need for respect, his noble deeds, his support for his friends, etc.

Somehow, somewhere, even I as a fan of Arjun and Draupadi and Abhimanyu (like I mentioned, his reputation was marred for me coz of the latter two), know that Karna does deserve some respect atleast, and yes I do respect him. Karna was a great warrior, knew he would be invincible, knew that the one person he hated the most (Arjun) would kill him, still gave up his Kavach & Kundal, even when he knew it wasn't a Bhramin asking for arms, but Lord Indra himself. Who will give up the one thing that would make them invincible only so that they don't break their word? Karna did, and that's why he deserves the respect and glory.

I hope this hasn't been a huge rant.

Love,
Payal😳

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar

I am sorry if the discussion was on something else.. I left the discussion today! So just giving my reasons for still not accepting it was Draupadi's mistake!