Symbolic Themes In Mahabharat: Edt july 4

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#11

Originally posted by: bheegi

Thanks lead nitrate...I didn't know the significance of the number 7😊

7 swargs, 7 naraks, 7 principal celestial rishis, saptasati, 7 janam of bonds, 7 holds immense importance in Indian mysticism as well. Not just in the western world.

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nikki1291

@nikki1291

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#12

also about the Vastra-haran...

i have always believed that in that dyut sabha it wasnt only draupadi that had been disrobed but also yuddhisthir...

see for me i have always considered the five Pandavas as one being...nakul being the physical body and the ego and materiaslistic satisfaction we derive from it , sahdev the intellect , arjun the valor and courage , bheem the strength , will to live and the life force and finally yuddhisthir as the soul , the conscience..the seat of justice and dharma...

when yuddhisthir begins to lose his brothers he does so in a specific manner...it had always made me think as to why did Ved Vyas go in that order...you know NSABY instead of the usual youngest to eldest SNABY...

whn yuddhi lost nakul he first lost the ego then he lost his intellect and the power to think properly...and in his continuing desperation his courage and finally his strength and his will...

however only after he lost himself and his conscience did he stake draupadi...

i mean Ved vyas was an eminent feminist...despite his times he always wrote about great women...

why didnt yuddhi stake drau before him...he could have..she was his wife and acc to the times his property...had he staked her before , the entire course of MB would have been different ..the pandavas along with drau wud have spent their lives in servitude...

bt no..yuddhi only staked draupadi after he had lost his soul and his sense of justice...that is one of the many reasons why i have never been able to blame yuddhi for the first dice game...also why i think the vana parva and the subsequent Jaidrath thing to be a narrative of their ( specifically yuddhi's ) redemption...

why did ved vyas add another haran..he was an eminent writer..he could have thought of another incident...bt another haran and this time all her husbands save her unlike the last time when they were helpless...

such subtleties are one of the biggest reasons why i love MB so much...

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#13

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

7 swargs, 7 naraks, 7 principal celestial rishis, saptasati, 7 janam of bonds, 7 holds immense importance in Indian mysticism as well. Not just in the western world.

and not to mention...saat pheras :)

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: nikki1291
also about the Vastra-haran...
i have always believed that in that dyut sabha it wasnt only draupadi that had been disrobed but also yuddhisthir...

see for me i have always considered the five Pandavas as one being...nakul being the physical body and the ego and materiaslistic satisfaction we derive from it , sahdev the intellect , arjun the valor and courage , bheem the strength , will to live and the life force and finally yuddhisthir as the soul , the conscience..the seat of justice and dharma...

when yuddhisthir begins to lose his brothers he does so in a specific manner...it had always made me think as to why did Ved Vyas go in that order...you know NSABY instead of the usual youngest to eldest SNABY...
whn yuddhi lost nakul he first lost the ego then he lost his intellect and the power to think properly...and in his continuing desperation his courage and finally his strength and his will...

however only after he lost himself and his conscience did he stake draupadi...
i mean Ved vyas was an eminent feminist...despite his times he always wrote about great women...

why didnt yuddhi stake drau before him...he could have..she was his wife and acc to the times his property...had he staked her before , the entire course of MB would have been different ..the pandavas along with drau wud have spent their lives in servitude...

bt no..yuddhi only staked draupadi after he had lost his soul and his sense of justice...that is one of the many reasons why i have never been able to blame yuddhi for the first dice game...also why i think the vana parva and the subsequent Jaidrath thing to be a narrative of their ( specifically yuddhi's ) redemption...

why did ved vyas add another haran..he was an eminent writer..he could have thought of another incident...bt another haran and this time all her husbands save her unlike the last time when they were helpless...

such subtleties are one of the biggest reasons why i love MB so much...

Well written Nikki👏

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: nikki1291
also about the Vastra-haran...
i have always believed that in that dyut sabha it wasnt only draupadi that had been disrobed but also yuddhisthir...

see for me i have always considered the five Pandavas as one being...nakul being the physical body and the ego and materiaslistic satisfaction we derive from it , sahdev the intellect , arjun the valor and courage , bheem the strength , will to live and the life force and finally yuddhisthir as the soul , the conscience..the seat of justice and dharma...

when yuddhisthir begins to lose his brothers he does so in a specific manner...it had always made me think as to why did Ved Vyas go in that order...you know NSABY instead of the usual youngest to eldest SNABY...
whn yuddhi lost nakul he first lost the ego then he lost his intellect and the power to think properly...and in his continuing desperation his courage and finally his strength and his will...

however only after he lost himself and his conscience did he stake draupadi...
i mean Ved vyas was an eminent feminist...despite his times he always wrote about great women...

why didnt yuddhi stake drau before him...he could have..she was his wife and acc to the times his property...had he staked her before , the entire course of MB would have been different ..the pandavas along with drau wud have spent their lives in servitude...

bt no..yuddhi only staked draupadi after he had lost his soul and his sense of justice...that is one of the many reasons why i have never been able to blame yuddhi for the first dice game...also why i think the vana parva and the subsequent Jaidrath thing to be a narrative of their ( specifically yuddhi's ) redemption...

why did ved vyas add another haran..he was an eminent writer..he could have thought of another incident...bt another haran and this time all her husbands save her unlike the last time when they were helpless...

such subtleties are one of the biggest reasons why i love MB so much...

that is awesome.

when a man loses his conscience, his fairness, only does then lady luck leaves him. draupadi was their luck.

another aspect of jaidrath was the sexual harassment of women. how many times we read, sexual abuses, harassment r done by family members or people that the woman knew previously? the woman is forced to forgive him for the sake of family, for peacem, even if she demands justice. how often a bhabhi is accosted by the husband of nanad or a distant related devar?

this shows how aware vyas was of social complications despite being a sanyasi.

her husbands r forced to spare jaydrath. however they do punish him. thus was vyas's message, do not deny justice to the wronged woman.

jaydrath then proceeds to ask for shiva's boon in defeating the pandavas. Shiva grants him that boon, that for one day, he would be able to hold every pandava except arjun off. this shows how when the person is guilty and is meted out due punishment, does he refuse to acknowledge his guilt and take responsibility for it. Rather he chooses to destroy those who punished him. This also shows, when you work for the sytem of justice, even when you are in the right, wrong can come to you for your deeds. Because there will always be people, who would refuse to see their fault for their own and would seek to blame everyone but themselves.

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

that is awesome.
when a man loses his conscience, his fairness, only does then lady luck leaves him. draupadi was their luck.

another aspect of jaidrath was the sexual harassment of women. how many times we read, sexual abuses, harassment r done by family members or people that the woman knew previously? the woman is forced to forgive him for the sake of family, for peacem, even if she demands justice. how often a bhabhi is accosted by the husband of nanad or a distant related devar?

this shows how aware vyas was of social complications despite being a sanyasi.
her husbands r forced to spare jaydrath. however they do punish him. thus was vyas's message, do not deny justice to the wronged woman.

jaydrath then proceeds to ask for shiva's boon in defeating the pandavas. Shiva grants him that boon, that for one day, he would be able to hold every pandava except arjun off. this shows how when the person is guilty and is meted out due punishment, does he refuse to acknowledge his guilt and take responsibility for it. Rather he chooses to destroy those who punished him. This also shows, when you work for the sytem of justice, even when you are in the right, wrong can come to you for your deeds. Because there will always be people, who would refuse to see their fault for their own and would seek to blame everyone but themselves.

That's a very good point. We all know that majority of sexual abuses happen within families or close acquaintances. That's the genius of Ved Vyas- no wonder he said 'jo ismein nahin, wo kahin nahin'

People like Mulayam Singh can learn from this incident- never spare an offender who has committed a crime against a woman!

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#17

Thought-provoking post. Would like to bring Bhishma and Drona here based on what I have read from Jaya and Yuganta.

In denying himself the throne and progeny, Bhishma goes against his dharma of gruhastha-ashrama, that of raising a family and providing a heir as well as his kshatriya dharma. This renunciation of his duties costs him and the Kuru race heavily later. Also, his unfounded sacrifice causes him to be constantly active in handling the state of affairs in the kingdom, when he should have retired from his duties long back. Hence Bhishma for me is the perfect example of how sacrifice cannot always be glorious. It is the earliest precursor of the philosophical school of thought of 'objectivism'-in the sense that there is no harm in pursuing one's own self interest as long as it does not impinge others' right to live with liberty and respect- that I have come across.

Dharma in the Mahabharata is closely linked to one's place in the social structure back then. Drona was born a brahmin, and his duty, his dharma as one was pretty clearly laid out in front of him. Yet his actions are more those of a kshatriya and in the process he could do justice to neither. He could never adhere to the kshatriya code of conduct nor could he carry out his responsibilities of a brahmin. While social mobility between different social statures is good, one must also accept the consequences of the same. As they say- with power comes responsibility.

Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#18

Originally posted by: Ashwini_D
Thought-provoking post. Would like to bring Bhishma and Drona here based on what I have read from Jaya and Yuganta.

In denying himself the throne and progeny, Bhishma goes against his dharma of gruhastha-ashrama, that of raising a family and providing a heir as well as his kshatriya dharma. This renunciation of his duties costs him and the Kuru race heavily later. Also, his unfounded sacrifice causes him to be constantly active in handling the state of affairs in the kingdom, when he should have retired from his duties long back. Hence Bhishma for me is the perfect example of how sacrifice cannot always be glorious. It is the earliest precursor of the philosophical school of thought of 'objectivism'-in the sense that there is no harm in pursuing one's own self interest as long as it does not impinge others' right to live with liberty and respect- that I have come across.

Dharma in the Mahabharata is closely linked to one's place in the social structure back then. Drona was born a brahmin, and his duty, his dharma as one was pretty clearly laid out in front of him. Yet his actions are more those of a kshatriya and in the process he could do justice to neither. He could never adhere to the kshatriya code of conduct nor could he carry out his responsibilities of a brahmin. While social mobility between different social statures is good, one must also accept the consequences of the same. As they say- with power comes responsibility.

The concept of dharm is indeed very important in MB. Any deviation from what your dharm ought to be does create issues throughout the story.

Because Bheeshma didn't look at the big picture when he took his prann, an impotent and blind prince became the potential successors- both were unfit in one way or another and the result was disastrous as we all know.

In general, my interpretation of dharm after reading MB is- should benefit maximum number of people in society and should be laden with compassion. Thanks Ashwini

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#19

Great post...👏

There are so many things in Mahabharat that are symbolic.

The marriage of the Pandavas n Draupadi itself can be interpreted in various ways.

I heard somewhere, that the Pandavas were like the 5 fingers, n Draupadi was the palm. Together, they made a hand. Just like the fingers are connected to each other, via the palm, the Pandavas were united bcoz of Draupadi. Just like a fist is incomplete without the palm, so were the Pandavas without Draupadi. That is y she went with them everywhere, be it vanvaas or mahaprasthaan.