Mahabharat Episode Discussion Thread #6/ DT's Nt pg-23

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#131

Originally posted by: bheegi
When an episode about a story that's known to me since childhood, when even though I know what's going to happen next, an episode manages to stir my emotions- brings a lump in my throat, tears in my eyes and knots in my tummy then I should assume that SP and it's creative team have done something right. Forget the loopholes, the distortions and flawed screenplay, they still managed to touch my heart. THIS👏👏👏

It was great to see Karna open his mouth and yes, he did mention the sootputra comment- this man might say he has moved on but it still pinches him deep down. Yes and this is something which has bugged me ever since I was competent enough to understand. If a royal princess born out of the fire does not want to marry a guy who is of inferior birth/social status as per her (no one knew he was surya putra) than she is; then why can she NOT reject a guy on that basis? Back in the day, heck even today it is kind of a big deal to marry in a family of the same gotra and social status as one is. And as someone had said before it was a swayam var, meaning she picks the var on her swayam self. I do not understand what the issue was? Perhaps a character's inability to make peace with himself? Now that is another debate for another day.
Disclaimer: just my opinion.

Draupadi cried for Govind. I've read in some versions that until Draupadi surrendered herself to Govind completely, he didn't come to her rescue/ That's why till she had the sari pallu clenched between her teeth, he couldn't help her. YES!! I too have read that she had to forget her ego and surrender herself fully to the Lord and when she was free of all mortal bonds THAT was when he came to help her. I have read the same too😊

Yudi was brilliant and now I can see why Rohit agreed to this role. Rohit is an AMAZING Yudi and he seems so SOO nice from what I see/hear re other platforms not to be mentioned hereOne could not help but sympathize on his plight today. His tears, OMG!! i wanted to hug him and shake him at the same time. Krishna is right, i remember reading somewhere that he does say that some rules are not always RIGHT. Waise aaj Yudi mein Bheem ka bhoot kahan se aa gaya? Throwing things, getting angry, crushing a dice into pieces??? I guess he will also burn his hand next week and not let Bheem do the honors. I think Bheem does burn his hands and cries/looks away while doing it

These Pandav brothers definitely display more emotions than the previous versions of MB and I applaud the creatives here. I think the actors also deserve SOME credit.

My answers in RED to some of your points

Edited by DrModel - 11 years ago

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#132

Thanks @ Dr Model. I might be one of the few people on the forum who is not a big fan of Karna. For him, his ego and his social anxiety to move up the stratum defined his actions more than his words.

Even though he proudly accepted he is a sootputra, IMO, he never ever got over that reality. As Arjun said today, 'you have so much pride on your saamarth' - he was right, Karna had the skills but his ego is what actually got the better of him. A true friend would never side with adharm, rather help his friend do the right thing. He sided with adharm because Duri gave him that status. Is status and recognition by society more important than dharm?

In real life, we have lots of Karnas around us. Remember Rajat Gupta?

Read the book "difficulty of being good' It's a great analysis on MB characters and it's available on kindle :)

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#133

@Bheegi: you are not alone in not being a big fan of karan.

I too tend to get quite unpopular when i say that I am not exactly an admirer of his.

His inability to accept himself as he was; fine he wanted to be a good archer--he was turned away by a lot of gurus. but when he went to the 6th Avatar the least he could do was say the truth. the least he could do was say -- dear lord, will you be my teacher? no one else wants to teach me because they think I am a man of inferior birth. However, my mother found me and adopted me so tell me how this is my fault. Had he said the truth then I doubt he would have been chased off. instead he chose to LIE.

THEN, to show off his skills, and curb his hunger he blindly shot arrows at what he presumed to eb deer and killed a cow. Got cursed.

THEN to show the world he was better than Arjun, he entered a competition for the princes of a land. That is like me going to the qualifiers for the Olympics and trying to compete without even going through Nationals.

and THENNN because Duri needed someone who was equal to Arjun baba, and because he needed to be able to participate he accepted Ang just to show the world he was better than Arjun

And he went to the Swayamvar to participate thinking a princess born out of fire said to be Shakti guarded by the Lord himself would accept him when she had given her heart to someone else?

And to take revenge by calling that princess a wh**e????!?!?! And suggesting she be stripped?????

To suggest going to the forest and gloating at the poor Pandavas plight?

To run away when the gandharvas caught his master???Where was glory then????

To lose so badly at Virat??

To pay no heed to Indra when he was told: you cannot kill Arjun. he is protected by the One in whose name even the Lord Neelkanth offers dhyana

To egg Duri on for war just to show that he was a good warrior and could win?

To refuse protection from the lord so as to kill Arjun? Now one wonders whether it was to help Duri and repay his so called debt to Duri or to show the world he was better?

And to attack a poor innocent child from the back.

What part of this is tragic hero?? none in my opinion.

Disclaimer: not intended to hurt any fan sentiments and solely MY opinion and criticism on the CHARACTER Karna.

Edited by DrModel - 11 years ago

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Arijit

@Arijit007

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#134

i am also feeling very unesy to watch tonight's epi, it will be absolutely difficult to watch the travesty shown in this ghastly event. but one thing will is good, panchali's sakhaa is listning.

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RosChel.Lobster

@RosChel.Lobster

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#135

@DrModel dearie I wish I could hug u tight...but unfortunately I can't so a virtual hug 🤗 Damn u speak my mind n don't b lost i am wid u I don't even admire Karna n I so agree wid each n evry word that I don't think there's a need for me to add on any points 😊

Great post 👍🏼

Edited by Rushika - 11 years ago

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TheWatcher

@TheWatcher

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#136

@Dr.Model,

I respect your opinion on a certain character but few of the points you have mentioned can be nullified,

Gandharva war, Karna was intoxicated (drank wine) while he fought with the Gandharvas, go read the citation from the thread "Karna battle - Source KMG" to know how valiantly karna fought alone without any supporter, they were not able to defeat him without using illusions, which weren't used on arjuna , saying that Arjuna defeated chitrasena would be wrong since the fight was stopped due to their friendship.

Virat war - show me one citation in which Karna fired even one celestial weapon at Brihannala, while the latter fired many celestial weapons.

Please don't add stuff to prove karna arrogant, Karna accidently killed a cow while practicing archery not deliberately

Karna always knew that while Krishna is with arjuna the latter will be invincible, but he had to pay the debt of getting respected by only one person throughout his life, though he was not entirely loyal to Dury and betrayed him at the end.

Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago

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sayandeep kar

@meghumonu

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#137

dr. model may i answer ur questions one by one

1. he was shunned by all so gr8 gurus because he was a soot putra born of lower class and he heard that parasuram only taught brahmins if he had told the truth parashuram may not have taught him and it could also been other way around u mentioned bt it didn't happen and we can just speculate abt it nw bt when he went to parashuram he was jst a teenager do u think a teenager has the maturity to believe that gods never compare and judge on castes like humans do!! itz not really his fault that he lied!! his bad luck on play again

2. he never arrogantly killed the cow while showing off he killed the cow accidentally while practicing archery read mahabharat carefully

3.he never entered the competition until drona arrogantly announced arjuna as the best archer u definately cannot announce that sort of thing without fighting against other archers of the world.

4. he forgot his dharma arjuna and bheema the so called dharmacharis insulted him as sootputra and called him a dog is that dharma and that moment only duryodhan respected him and his skill and made him king was it so wrong to spprt a frnd who stands by u in ur tough time

5.he didn't go to swayamvar jst like that he was invited jst like other kings and if draupadi didn't wanted him to marry her she should have given more logical reason not some reason that i can't marry a sootputran jst bcoz he is born frm a low class his skills dsnt matter what was the meaning of swayamvar if she wanted to mary arjuna whereas it is clearly stated in vedas that in swayamvar whoever king wins the competition shall have to marry the princess she had the right to refuse bt not with a reason like discriminating and insulting smeone on caste basis

6. karna never suggested to disrobe draupadi dnt add ur own info in epic like mahabharat plzz and also the fact was according to the dharmic laws of that time and nw also woman who live with five husbands are called wh**es so what's wrong in that if karna's insult can be justified what is there to be insulted of being reminded of his own social class then there is no question of insult of being called wh**e as it was with dharma written in scriptures of dharma

7.if pandavas can insult him every time based on his caste then what's wrong to gloat infront of them when they have fallen on hard times

8. karna never fleed from the battle against gandharvas he was valiantly fighting them still when duryodhan got captured bcoz of his own stupidity that is not his

fault.

9. arjuna used sammhoni astra against all the kuru army to make them senseless u hardly call that a victory by valor itz a victory by deception so itz not defeat fr karna

10. indra never told karna u cannot defeat arjuna it was indra by deception knowing that karna cannot be killed while having his armor took that away frm him by deception this was his confidence on his own son arjuna. despite knwing it was a lord indra hiding under the identity of brhamin he donated his armor such was his confidence in his own skill.

arjuna had the pashupata astra so had karna the vijaya the own mighty bow of lord shiva itself!! okk

11.why will he accept protection from the lord krishna when he knew he was his enemy and krishna never helped him during his tough times and nw krishna came to give his protection jst to make pandavas able to win the war!! who would accept protection of such scheming person!! and a kshatriya never accepts protection frm another person not even frm gods

12.karna never had any need to show off his skill in the world before the kurukshetra war he was quite famous for his archery skill and valour all over aryavarta he was the one who won evry single battle of duryodhanas ashwamwedha yagna!! if he was so hungry to show of the world of his valour then why krishna wanted him to join the side of pandavas an unknown warrior shld never given the proposal of joining a noble army as itz commander

13.karna never attacked abhimanyu from back it was the rule of chakravyuh that once a warrior enters the chakravyuh he would have to fight all the strongest warriors all by himself it was abhimanyu's fault of gatecrashing into the chakravyuh and got himself killed when he knew that he didn't knw hw to get out frm chakravyuh he thought as he was arjuna's son he can destroy he chakravyuh from inside despite all of the maharathis forming the centre of the formation that's sme serious overconfidence and underestimating which got him killed. nowhere karna to blamed.

he is a tragic hero bcoz of all the insults and abuses he suffered at the hand of the world and the misfotunes in his life!! ur alones rambling cannot change the fact

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TheWatcher

@TheWatcher

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#138

@meghamonu

Karna did insult draupadi, your rest of the points are okay but karna did insult draupadi.

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sayandeep kar

@meghumonu

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#139

dear rushika you may not admire karna your own choice bt dnt disrespect a character without knwing evrything and the situation he faced in his life time and what forced him to take actions for which he is blamed in histry!! dnt judge smeone jst by seeing the facts laid infront of you understand his situation and place urself in his position and then judge him/her!!