Inviting all Karna admirers....modnote pg13

varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
...To a dispassionate debate. 😃

The Karna NAT (Non- Appreciation Thread)

  • Only civil language to be used.
  • Please put forth your arguments rationally.
  • If possible, substantiate your arguments with quotes/ incidents from MB.
  • Above all, please be prepared to hear views that may be different from yours.

DOES KARNA REALLY DESERVE ALL THE SYMPATHY / ADMIRATION ?

Having been a part of this forum for the past few months, I was genuinely surprised to see the amount of admiration and sympathy this character has evoked.

I, for one, have neither sympathy nor admiration for Karna. I wonder if there are more like me.

Since the whole forum is flooded with Karna admirers, supporters and sympathizers, there was no suitable place for me to voice my views. Hence this non AT

Here are my reasons:

Infancy

Agreed, it was unfortunate that Karna was abandoned by Kunti but he did get wonderful parents in Adhiratha and Radha. It was not as if he grew up an orphan.

Youth

Despite what all the serials have shown thus far, Karna was not denied military education by Dronachraya. Karna was very much a part of Drona's Gurukulam, and it was here that the friendship b/w Karna and Duryodhana grew. So KArna and Duryodhana were already chums, well before the rangabhoomi episode.

His stint with Parashurama

The only thing Dronacharya denied Karna was the secret knowledge of the deadly Brahmashira weapon- which Karna wanted. Dronacharya's denial was based not on caste, but because the recipient was required to have a certain level of maturity. Even Arjuna received it only much later (after defeating Drupada).

Instead of accepting Dronacahrya's words with humility, Karna chose to ignore them and approached Parashurama disguised as a brahmin. This is where he got into a right royal mess- and this is where he loses all my sympathy. Some questions beg to be answered.

  • Was the knowledge of the Brahmashira so essential to him to disregard the words of two Gurus- Drona and Parashurama?
  • Did he really think he could get away by hoodwinking Parashurama- said to be Narayana inarnate?
  • Was he so naive not to realize that a Guru's blessings and benediction were more important than mere mantras?
The Killing of the Cow

According to the MB, this incident happened before Parashu's curse on him. Though done inadvertently, it was a fatal mistake. This was what Drona meant when he said Karna lacked sufficient self control and hence could not be trusted with the Brahmashira weapon.

His donations to Kunti and Indra

Karna gave Kunti a modified version of the boon she asked for.

Could he have done the same with Indra? If he knew that ripping his armour would make him vulnerable- and he knew that Duryodhana was depending upon him to win the war, Karna's donation to Indra was nothing short of betrayal to Duryodhana.


FOr those of you who argue that Karna could not refuse to give what anyone asked him during his sandhyavandana time of the day, I have this question: If Karna did ask for Indra's weapon in exchange of his armour, then it is a commercial transaction - not a Daan anymore. Karna could have easily argued and raised his price a bit more.

The Armour was his lifelong protection- but Indra's weapon (which he got in exchange) could be used only once. So in terms of barter, it was a pretty poor deal which Karna got.

Why then, is Karna considered a tragic hero, a victim of circumstances?



Edited by varaali - 11 years ago

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RosChel.Lobster thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
Love u for this post 👍🏼


I'm in Varaali n I second ur POVs neither I can symphatise wid him nor admire him...I know he had to face many atrocities n injustice but that only made him strong n a better person...he was a self made man so y did he n his admirers keep on cribbing about casteism n what all he has gone through is just not easy for me to digest...its just like when he wins...he boasts his strength n prowess but at the very next moment he cribs about casteism n several other things 😔

P.S. didn't mean to offend anyone just put in my views...I might b wrong observing him because I can neva connect to this charachter...would love to know Karna admirers views too...b civil plz :))


P.P.S. for heaven sake plzz don't even bother to bring my favorite actor to this...coz my views have nothing to do with him or the character he plays...so keep him away before quoting me :))
Edited by Rushika - 11 years ago
--Royal-- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3
I m 100% agree with rushi. But in some way my thinking s different well mere symphathy bhi nhi Karn k liye.n yes me too never connect with his character...btw very nice post👍🏼
Edited by 22pundirabhi - 11 years ago
KrishnaRukmini thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#4
Varaali first I want clap for u n thanks a lot for this post...
I was like everyone going ga ga over Karna make me think till we what read all fake I was stunt but thanks for this beautifully u have written everything here...

Edited by PrithviSanyo1 - 11 years ago
simplysappie thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5
1st can I ask u something???
Who was karna ?? U wud say a human ... That's what is the point .. You said he lacked self control.. A man who let the insect bite him just because his guru was sleeping on his lap definitely lacks self control. He killed the cow by mistake.. He lacked self control surely ..
People live in a democracy today and enjoy every liberty which earlier only allowed to upper caste ... People who dare to dream big n have talent are barred because of their caste are completely wrong .. How dare they dream big ????
He gave Indra a daan n didn't ask anything in return .. Indra moved by his gesture insisted n surya dev ordered him to take that weapon ... He never thought of asking it himself by his own will .. It is upto someone if they consider it a poor deal or not but I consider it not be one ... It is called obeying to your papa ... When even after devoting his whole life to Duryodhana he gave away his kavach n kundal to Indra as he asked for it completely shows how deceitful he was ... One should never have self confidence, should not be a daanveer .. Hai naa ...Of course he didn't deserve that divyaastra .. He never deserved any good in his life ... All he deserved was insult n discrimination coz he was a sutputra .. N I hope I were civil enough ...
Edited by simplysappie - 11 years ago
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6
There are number of translations which say that Drona rejected Karna even BRC mahabharata , You cant really say that you know 100% that Drona taught Karna ,only KMG translations says that , KMG translation is a translation of Vyas's not the actual MB, if you claim to have read the actual MB your age must be somewhat 5000 years old which i highly doubt ,

People claiming that they read actual Vyas's MB is BS( BullS***) , Those people who say this are conscious about their argument and want to prove their opinion right at any cost ,no translator in this world can translate 100% of Vyas's MB , Please get this
. Many people in this forum think that KM ganguly copy pasted Vyas's MB but he did not, he translated it and every author who translates it puts his interpretation and his thinking in the translation. Learn to see beyond one translation then maybe we can argue.

butterturnips thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Wow! Awesome thread to criticize Karna indirectly. So, there should also be Non ATs for other characters like Arjuna, Draupadi & Yudhishthir as well!

Moderator should allow one seperate Non ATs for other characters also since, no one in Mahabharat was a Saint!
Proud-India thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8
I am not huge fan of Karna's character neither Against him.

But i must say these thread will be helped to push other big fight in forum. And it is already started
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9
KMG is the most trusted and up to date one regardless of how many translations are there and it is complete and most reliable one on the internet.
"The Ganguli English translation of the Mahabharata is the only complete one in the public domain.
The Ganguli English translation is also cross-linked on a book-by-book basis with the Sanskrit text."


The DT did gave the links to it and i think it is stated once or twice every month that we are supposed to refer it and quote it while discussing something. Just some time ago there was a post which stated that we are to refer preferably from KMG on sacred-text while making claims.

Varaali did just that, there are many people who refer to the 'interpretations' instead of the 'translations' and get away with it even though the DT keeps pointing out that any argument and claims are to be made from Ved Vyas MB and the most reliable and used translation is that of KMG.

Varaali did follow the Forum Rules while making the post, there is nothing abusive or degrading throughout the topic. She is within her rights to put forth her point of view.



TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
For you it must be the most reliable but for many people it is not, Kmg translation is one of many reliable translations but it is not the only one, it must support your claim to be the most reliable is it?. People should look beyond one translation.

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