{| Doubts and Discussions about Mahabharata |} - Page 109

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...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

what is this confusion all about? I was much clear that Krishna was the avatar of MahaVishnu.. i think there are references for this in MB also..

srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
@diala in adiparva it is given that twelve aditya sprung from aditi.youngest of them was vishnu who was superior in merits above all.my qu. is that is he same vishnu as narayan vishnu or he is a different one?btw can anybody give me idea abt origin of tridevs?
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali


There is no mention of Karna taking part in Draupadi's swayamvar in the CE. I did give its links somewhere in the Versions thread

Copy / pasting from the Versions thread:

I have just now read the relevant section. It is here


(It is on page 667. Type the page number on the task bar on top to get to this page. Read the final lines of adhyaya 178)

There is no mention of Karna taking part; hence no mention of Draupadi calling him Suta, whatever.


Karna failing in Draupadi's swayamvar in the Southern Recession. Do you want the relevant link?



Yes, thanks Varaali.
The english translation of C.E. of BORI can be bought at amazon or flipkart, or google books if anyone is interested, it is by Bibek Debroy. It is unabridged with 10 volumes.
Almost the whole Adi Parva is there in the first volume,apart from no Karna rejection, there is no Draupadi laughing at Duri, rather it is the pandavas.
C.E has lots of footnotes, referring the only two other indian unabridged translations by KMG and M.N. Dutta
C.E also takes the regional versions in context.

Tamil MB, stating Karna unable to tie the string to the bow and hurting his head.
Kerala MB, he simply fails along with Jarasandh, Shishupal and Shalya which is also the casein Malyalam translations.

Even these have been translated by many,you would probably find them in ebook form or hard copies can be bought.





Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

what is this confusion all about? I was much clear that Krishna was the avatar of MahaVishnu.. i think there are references for this in MB also..


This one is so confusing,like Krishna is the purnavtar but then, even in MB they go with Nar-Narayan story according to which both were twin souls and avatar of vishnu, as in Vishnu took avatar as Nar-Narayan. Then they say that Krishna is the Purna avatar of Mahavishnu, the Supreme God but Krishna is also called reincarnation of Sage Narayan, who was half (but superior )of the Vishnu Avatar.
BUT, then in the Adi parva, Narayana and Nara are present during the Amrit manthan and this Narayan is the supreme God Vishnu, not the sage Narayan. But Nara is there too.
Ok,i will stop.

...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Srishti.. no am not the right person to answer your question.. i will better believe my childhood amarchitrakatha books.. this is very very confusing.. 😆
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Start of Kaliyug :

in book 5, sec. 74

Even as, when Dharma became extinct, Kali was born in the race of Asuras flourishing with prosperity and blazing with energy, so was born Udavarta among the Haihayas. Janamejaya among the Nepas, Vahula among the Talajanghas, proud Vasu among the Krimis, Ajavindu among the Suviras, Rushardhik among the Surashtras, Arkaja among the Valihas, Dhautamulaka among the Chinas, Hayagriva among the Videhas, Varayu among the Mahaujasas, Vahu among the Sundaras, Pururavas among the Diptakshas, Sahaja among the Chedis and Matsyas, Vrishaddhaja among the Praviras, Dharana among the Chandra-batsyas, Bigahana among the Mukutas and Sama among the Nandivegas. These vile individuals, O Krishna, spring up, at the end of each Yuga, in their respective races, for the destruction of their kinsmen.

So someone pointed out Dhauta means clean in sanskrit, mukula means root.

The only king whose name means 'clean' is King Jai who lived from 1728 to 1675 BCE.

So can we conclude that Kalyug started in 1700 BCE?

AnjanaYYZ thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Just how many snake kings and kingdoms were there during MB times?So far there is Takshak, Uloopi's papaji, the one that saved Bhim...are their more
Ashwini_D thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: ...Diala...

seems the same CE claims that it was NOT Krishna who helped Draupadi but some unknown soul.. I wonder how many will agree with both together..
all have the choice to believe and disbelieve what they wish to but I dont know how right it is to market just one part of it in all possible places while being intentionally silent on the other part..


I believe the CE omitted Krishna from the Vastraharan, as many are of the opinion that Krishna was raised to God status much after the epic was conceived. If I am not wrong, I read somewhere that the Srimad Bhagwatam was a product of this Krishna-bhakti.

As for my opinion, I read an article which has also been shared in another thread on the forum which explains the 'vastraharan' part convincingly. It would be labelled as blasphemy in the MB context, and many would want to dismiss it as mere hand-waving and another theory aimed at catching eyeballs only and devoid of any actual merit. It argues that the 'vastraharan' incident as described in KMG might never have happened. Draupadi was insulted, yes, but there was no attempt at stripping her. The fact that she was staked at a game of dice, dragged by her hair in open court when she was menstruating, in robes not decent enough to be worn in public and the demeaning things said by Duryodhan and Dusshasan were insult enough. The 'vastraharan' and the subsequent call to krishna for help were later interpolations, to make Draupadi's insult more dramatic.

And interestingly the author has sufficient evidence to substantiate it's claim from the KMG translation itself, saying that the 'stripping' of Draupadi is hardly ever mentioned later in the epic, Whenever there is reference to the dice game fiasco, it is only Draupadi being dragged by her hair that is mentioned but not the actual attempt to disrobe her, which the author found weird. Also when Draupadi meets Krishna later during their exile, she confronts him as to why he did not come to HP to support their cause, something which she would not have said had Krishna actually brought about the miracle. (IMO)

If this theory were true, it would make more sense why Bhishma, Vidura and the other elders chose to remain silent and contemplate about the subtleties of dharma, wondering whether Draupadi was a slave of the Kauravas, rather than show some shock at the queen of the pandavas and IP being stripped in public.
Edited by ashwi_d - 11 years ago
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
I've read somewhere that Krishna did not save draupadi, It was Dharma, Dharma can be anyone, Dharma can be Yudi, Dharma can be Vidur or anyone else.
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
This is the part of Pandava history narrated to Janamejaya by Vaisampayana.. Can anyone clarify why Ulupi-Iravan and Chitrangada-Babruvahana are missing here? it cant be for the conditions of their marriages, Hidimbi-Gatotkacha being mentioned.. is this a miss or does this imply something else?
After that the Pandavas slew Hidimva, and then they went to a town called Ekachakra. There also they slew a Rakshasa of the name of Vaka and then went to Panchala. And there obtaining Draupadi for a wife they returned to Hastinapura. And there they dwelt for some time in peace and begat children. And Yudhishthira begat Prativindhya; Bhima, Sutasoma; Arjuna, Srutakriti; Nakula, Satanika; and Sahadeva, Srutakarman. Besides these, Yudhishthira, having obtained for his wife Devika, the daughter of Govasana of the Saivya tribe, in a self-choice ceremony, begat upon her a son named Yaudheya. And Bhima also obtaining for a wife Valandhara, the daughter of the king of Kasi, offered his own prowess as dower and begat upon her a son named Sarvaga. And Arjuna also, repairing to Dwaravati, brought away by force Subhadra. the sweet-speeched sister of Vasudeva, and returned in happiness to Hastinapura. And he begat upon her a son named Abhimanyu endued with all accomplishments and dear to Vasudeva himself. And Nakula obtaining for his wife Karenumati, the princess of Chedi, begat upon her a son named Niramitra. And Sahadeva also married Vijaya, the daughter of Dyutimat, the king of Madra, obtaining her in a self-choice ceremony and begat upon her a son named Suhotra. And Bhimasena had some time before begat upon Hidimva a son named Ghatotkacha. These are the eleven sons of the Pandavas.

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