META chai party: RK as James Dean - Page 2

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applenpeaches thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#11

Thank you Namz, 🤗


Pippa,

You have touched what FQ also broached on. And actually agree with both of you. If Indian TV audience was mature enough and writers bold and inspired enough, they could have addressed all the complexes that we have raised. And you are 100% right. All this insight into the character is going to left unaddressed and one fine day RK would have become Rishu or Rishabh Kundra without even rubbing Allahddin's lamp. Remember Maan's character from Geet, how his anger was never explored and he just became a happy laughing man without any explanation into it.

I too wondered about his anger and got no answer.. But now I know- clunky plot device..
bhoomi.s thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#12
Hello ladies! Great topic, once again... Allow me to brew myself a cup of herbal tea, and I'll begin my essay.

Ready? Ok!

RK's personality has been shaped by his father's suicide. Forgive me for stating the obvious. For a 12 year old to have seen his father's death (or to be more precise, his dead body), and in that manner, would have been a trauma of horrific proportions. Again, quite obvious. Now, let me quickly jump to the state of psychological care in India for a minute. Even today, seeking psychological help is quite a taboo and is actually considered unnecessary, especially in situation such as this. The understanding is that the family rallies together and help one another cope. Seventeen years back, this would have been the norm.

Back to RK now. The boy's father committed suicide and soon afterwards, he was deprived of the one emotional support who could possible have seen him through - his mother. My case is that Rishabh Kundra has PTSD and RK is the persona he uses to cope with the trauma he experienced as a child.

A bit of general reading on PTSD. Not in my own words. Wikipedia zindabad! - It is a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma. Diagnostic symptoms for PTSD include re-experiencing the original trauma(s) through flashbacks or nightmares, avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma, and increased arousal'such as difficulty falling or staying asleep, anger, and hypervigilance. Secondary symptoms include - depression, dream content distortions, self-mutilation, sexual function reduction and sleep hours reduction.

You'll notice that RK has displayed every one of the major symptoms and some of the secondary ones on different occasions. Where he hasn't actually shown the symptoms, he's talked about experiencing them.

Also, the loss of his father is coupled with the loss (emotionally) of his mother. It's interesting how RK seems angrier at his mother, who is clearly caring and loves him dearly, than at his father, who abandoned his wife and son. Immediately after the suicide, Rishabh would have turned to his mother for comfort, but Radhaji is clearly unable to take charge. Instead, she turns to Kuku, hoping for emotional support from him and Rishabh perceives this as betrayal. Still, he is unable to cut himself off from her completely. Instead, he allows her to stay in the same house (I don't know if he had a choice initially, but how long would it take for him to throw the Bhatias out now) and tolerates all the relationships that she has brought with her, though ungracefully.


In the midst of trauma and betrayal, Rishabh evolved the personality of RK - cold, uncaring, unaffected and arrogant. He enjoys the adulation of the masses, loves it when people mill around him and fawn over him, believes that he is the centre of the world he inhabits. Yet he is intensely private. Bittu is his confidante to a certain extent, but all he knows is the persona. He knows what makes RK tick, what keeps him happy, what displeases him and what frustrates him, but he is completely unaware of what Rishabh thinks and feels. I'm not sure even RK is in tune with Rishabh. Rishabh is traumatised emotionally, hurt and aching and weak, according to RK. so he keeps himself hidden and cuts off all emotional involvement for fear of triggering a breakdown (not articulated, but almost involuntarily).

Is RK a virgin? I don't think so. A star like him, he must've had groupies. Dipali might be one of them. Or not. [God, I hope not! In fact I'm sure my 😛 RK has better taste than that makeup ki dukaan. Let's hope the dreadful past doesn't hold intimacy of ANY sort. But I guess that's too much to hope for. That 'gussa ya taqleef' line is scaring me, honestly. Sigh] In any case, RK is not a stranger to adulation and attraction. He's played the consummate lover on screen, he definitely understands the mechanics of desire and he actually enjoys the effect he has on women (ref initial episodes). Rishabh, however, is different. I don't think he's emotionally connected to any woman, or even another person, for a long time now. Physical intimacy is not strange, but emotional intimacy is. And like all strange, new experiences, it is scary. Which is why his fingers tremble when he has to tie that goddamn dori. Madhu is the woman who he's cared for all through the night, even if it was out of guilt. He's just unburdened his heart to her, even if it was in a fit of rage. Madhu now has seen Rishabh, previously concealed carefully under RK's exterior. His awkwardness isn't entirely sexual, as I see it. [Some of it was sexual and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise. A girl can dream.] It is the awkardness of being with a person who knows too much about you. For a private person, there is nothing more embarrassing than the thought that someone else knows him and his motivations well. And given Madhuji's propensity to look soulfully at him through those big eyes, I'm not surprised he regrets having shared himself with her.

And Dipali? I think she suspects (or worse, knows) that there is a Rishabh inside RK and she delights in making him uncomfortable. I guess we'll have to wait and watch to know more. I get the feeling that RK puts up with her for his mother, just like he puts up with the Bhatias. Notice how he never says anything about how the Bhatias treat him, even indirectly. This is possibly an extension of the same behaviour. It must be draining to fight off sexual advances all the time, which explains why he looked so shocked when he saw her. However, this time he has Madhu around to shield himself. He's sent out a clear message that the place in his life (and room and bed) has been taken, whatever be the reality of his relationship with Madhubala. I just hope Dipali gets it...


What do y'all think?

Edited by bhoomi.s - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago
#13
FG,
😆 you had me in splits with your nocturnal inspirations to analyze Indian TV audience and how much is possible within that scope.

*****

Whether RK is a virgin or not ?
There is peer pressure on men to lose virginity. Most Indian dudes lose virginity through marriage. However, I would believe they become experienced one way or the other. And Indian men are great at flirting. Its like free-fund tumble down unlike the american men I have seen here. I never could deal with Indian men and their innuendos unlessl I was tad Martian before them 🤣

RK does seem great at flirting.
All girl friend references, lack of interest point out this. This is perfect image of an Indian man. It is manly enough for them if they are able to flirt, have flirty conversations with no strings attached. In reality, most Indian men tie strings when approved by mother and family. That's why the concept of arranged marriage or love-cum arranged marriage. So flirting before marriage is manliness and sexual knowledge after marriage is perfect situation.

RK does not have the same security Net like other Indian men
He does not have a family and has estranged himself from his mother. RK is getting cracked up and slowly being pushed into no man's land. He is not the regular Indian dude with his umbilical cord around him and yet the hovering feel is there. Mother's approval matters subconsciously or unconsciously. Madhu is liked by his mother. So RK cannot flirt with her. Dipali is not his wife and he cannot entertain her sexual advances. At the same time, probably his adolescent male ego is not digesting the fact that he is not flirting, but the woman is being flirty with him and in fact he is being molested. He cannot talk aloud as then he would be judged, his personal power theory cracked up, with people seeing his weakness. So better keep the molestation in wraps.

All of the above was in context of "Ma ke doodh ke dhuke Indian Men". Sits perfectly on Indian Telly.


Now let me discard the Indianness factor which infact overweighs us at any given point of time/context. Let me compare star to star.
Why is RK not an Akshay Kumar ? His torrid affairs and his settling down
Why is RK not a Salmaan Khan ? His women and no marriage
Why is RK not a Aamir Khan ? his extra-marital inclinations
Why is RK not a Shahrukh Khan ? - One woman guy and perfect husband

Or is RK like Rajesh Khanna ? Loved Anju Mahendru for years, never married, angry and bitter break-up leading to unlikely pairiing in marriage with Dimple.
RK's humungous EGO has lot to do with the way he is deciding whom to allow in his life and whom not to. He definitely would not allow anyone who will know him in and out and will allow someone if he feels his ego will not be bashed but boosted.

In the past he may have tried to make Dipali his puppet. Puppet had its own mind and may now holds him hostage to information about his interiors. My imagination 🤣 Better wait for the story to unfold.

But then again I am back to where I started.
Can Sex be enjoyed with Ego in tact ? No. Can love happen if Ego stands in way and one is not ready to lose heart? No. Does Ego help you survive when you feel negated, rejected and are in denial. Yes, it helps. Its the only thing that ties you up in one string and you find your security in it. Ego is what you are. And RK's reality principle, his Ego is what he created for himself and there is nothing normal about it. Until we know more, it shall remain a mystery.

The theories that explain our life and our behaviour and I am okay with that explanation:
Freud ==> Id + Ego + Super Ego
Kundalini Chakras ==> the coiled Kundalini energy as it tries to soar up crossing the seven whorls. from Tamsik to Rajsik to Satvik spheres (Base bodily needs and instincts to moral to spiritual explorations)






Edited by shridevigaddam - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago
#14
Bhoomi,

Oh! I loved it. You know what I want to do. I want to do that what they do in Lok Sabha for yes. I think it AYE and banging on the table. right ?😆

👏👏 👏

I liked the PTSD part. BEST-EST,
I agree with you and I have sort of littered my thoughts too, but they end up to what you say. You know having summarized once I cannot keep harping the same otherwise, yeh debate nahin, monologue ho jaayega.

It was a wonderful read. Because you succintly put it there in inductive reasoning.

Yaar if the writers had not created the suspense and curiosity through limited dissemination of information, we would have deduced by now, actually baat kya hai.
Foucaults-qalam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#15
Am back! Some coffee! I kid. Lots of coffee, and I'm coming up, so better get the party started!
bhoomi.s thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: Foucaults-qalam

Am back! Some coffee! I kid. Lots of coffee, and I'm coming up, so better get the party started!



Aap aaye, now the party is set to rock! But coffee at a chai party? Why, FQ, why?
bhoomi.s thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: shridevigaddam

Yaar if the writers had not created the suspense and curiosity through limited dissemination of information, we would have deduced by now, actually baat kya hai.



Oh yes! We'd have surprised them with our startlingly keen insight... 😃 Which is probably why they are so damn mysterious. But I do hope all the questions are addressed. I don't want any overnight changes in character, please!
applenpeaches thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#18

Up and back to my senses.. Read the 3 posts I made.. 😳. Thats me... Let me get on before I embarrass myself further.. This post will see my serious face.. 🤓

So here goes..

Boomi, you couldnt have described RK's growth from Rishu in much better words. Believe me I know... Had been married to such a man for a brief period of time. I know how twisted they get and how possessive they are towards their mother. Not to talk about the other issues that rise from losing a father at such an young age. Add to the fact that unlike RK, he never got to see his father's body. Never like to talk about those aspects because these are issues which had for a period of time completely shattered me. I had at that time concluded that he probably would have turned out to be a good person had he received the psychological help he should have had had as a child, when he lost his father. But our Indian society sees seeking any sort of psychological help as a taboo, that it ends up creating lots of weirdos in the society. The first time I saw RK on screen, his ego, his arrogance and saw those references to his childhood, I was struck with how similar those two were, except for their feelings about their mother. Unlike reel life, in real life the wifes are not super woman silently bearing all assaults on her dignity and person (I am not talking about physical assault, but rather of the mental kind). So here I am. I usually bury my head in the sand and forget unpleasant issues- doesnt make it go away but, dulls the pain... So probably this will be the last time, you will see this referred. And I would rather you too never mention it again..

PTSD is very severe for a child to bear alone. When not treated properly it creates all sorts of mental imbalances in the child, which the child learns to mask under his ego and arrogance.. Just like bhoomi mentioned, he grows into a supremely confident man believing he is the center of the universe he inhibits.

RK sees his mother's marriage as betrayal and grows to hate her. He allows her to stay on in his house and tolerates her new family as well. He is lonely as only such a person can be. Its very difficult for him to let any one near. One man army- no pun regarding the personas trapped inside him.. He is emotionally detached from everyone else.. He is not emotionally attached to anyone else.. With Madhu his mask slipped bcos he allowed her a glimpse into his heart, his feelings and his emotions...

Re. Dipali.. Dont think he was physically intimate with her.. Probably saw his temper tantrums during his mother's marriage (My second post).. Thats the only reason I think he is not pushing her away unlike others..

@SD.. reply to your post after paet puja (hope i got the spelling right)..

- FG

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Posted: 12 years ago
#19
@Bhoomi i like to mix it up, ya know! Keep things wild?

Your name cannot be initialled without being insulting. This is awkward.

Moving on.

Both SD and FG have brilliantly summed up the disparities in RK's sexual character.

Is he a well-versed Casanova or is he pretending to be one-- ie, does he act ALL the time? Given the strength of the RK persona and its use as a carapace to protect the vulnerable child within, this seems a distinct possibility.

Here we can almost raise the possibility of a schizophrenic split personality. RK has sex, he seduces, he threatens Madhubala with undesired sexual situations. Rishab, otoh, is very awkward around his wife, toward whom, as BHoomi points out, this man-child is beginning to have a sexual response, which, because he is still young and virginal in this personality, makes him as fumbling and awkward as any prepubescent boy.

Then we come to his very strange behaviour with Deepali. He acted like, as SD has pointed out, a child being subjected to sexual overtures-- unable to decline them, or to adequately deal with the situation.


This is confusing, perhaps even absurd.

Now we have to concede, people, that we may just be dealing with poor writing, wherein these two extremes of character are never meant to reconcile because the writers haven't intended them to, and they are going, as is the norm with Indian TV, for cheap thrills and easy and ill-plotted suspense. There is, as it were, no TRUTH that will unite the two incidents we are discussing.

This, I fear to say, is probably the solution.

But operating within this broken and unresolved logic, are we able to construct a meta-narrative for people like us, the show's more discerning viewers? Possibly.

But I will have to raise the bugbear of childhood sexual abuse, which was completely undiscussed in India until Amir Khan opened this can of worms. Rishab, orphaned and with a mother who DOES NOT listen to him, is an almost classic candidate for this trauma.

Could such violation have caused his extreme unease with sex and sexual intimacy?


Edited by Foucaults-qalam - 12 years ago
bhoomi.s thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#20

Originally posted by: Foucaults-qalam

@Bhoomi i like to mix it up, ya know! Keep things wild?
I hope that coffee isn't Irish, in that case.. Not that it would be dreadful if it was. Except I'd want a sip and then where would we be?


Your name cannot be initialled without being insulting. This is awkward.
Lol. My friends call me Bee. As in Busy Bee. And not in a flattering way 😛

Moving on.

both SD and FG have brilliantly summed up the disparities in RK's sexual character.

Is he a well-versed Casanova or is he pretending to be one-- iIe, does he act ALL the time? Given the strength of the RK persona and its use as a carapace to protect the vulnerable child within, this seems a distinct possibility.

Here we can almost raise the possibility of a schizophrenic split personality. RK has sex, he seduces, he threatens Madhubala with undesired sexual situations. Rishab, is very awkward around his wife, toward whom, as BHoomi points out, this man-child is beginning to have a sexual response, which, because he is still young and virginal in this personality, makes him as fumbling and awkward as any prepubescent boy.

Then we come to his very strange behaviour with Deepali. He acted like, as SD has pointed out, a child being subjected to sexual overtures-- unable to decline them, or to adequately deal with the situation.

This is confusing, perhaps even absurd.

Now we have to concede, people, that we may just be dealing with poor writing, wherein these too extremes of character are never meant to reconcile because the writers haven't intended them to, and they are going, as is the norm with Indian TV, for cheap thrills and easy and ill-plotted suspense. There is, as it were, no TRUTH that will unite the two incidents we are discussing.

This, I fear to say, is probably the solution.

More's the pity. I am really hoping that, for once, Indian TV will break past its shoddy writing and TRP-related limitations and actually deliver on the complex story promised. I am highly irritated with the new promo, btw. Do we really need a death threat now? Why are they hell-bent on making Madhu pity/save/serve/love RK so soon? Idiots. But that's a rant for another day. Right now, I hope this RK/Rishabh duality is not explained away superficially, or worse, left unexplained.

But operating within this broken and unresolved logic, are we able to construct a meta-narrative for people like us, the show's more discerning viewers. Possibly.

But I will have to raise the bugbear of childhood sexual abuse, which was completely undiscussed in India until Amir Khan opened this can of worms. Rishab, orphanned and with a mother who DOES NOT listen to him, is an almost classic candidate for this trauma.

Could such violation have caused his extreme unease with sex and sexual intimacy?

I was thinking of this too. If Dipali was older, I would've said this was the case for sure. Right now, I don't know... But it definitely is a distinct possibility, especially if Rishabh was a child actor. Was he?


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