Bajaj shouldn't be grey - Page 6

Originally posted by: Nostalgia3997

I don't think you realize this is ITV not an English lit class, of which I've taken many because I'm currently pursuing a degree in that and have more experience with grey characters than the average person. Whether you like it or not, this is a daily soap and while we can have high expectations from whatever media we consume, for the sake of our sanity we should be realistic about the shows we end up watching. All these characters fall into certain tropes. Every story Shakespeare or not is based on some fundamental understanding of good vs bad, even if they make a case for ambiguous characters. I'm not going to give you a lecture on all that but i will say this. The picturization of Bajaj at the time of me writing this post was one where we were privy to his inner conflict and so I felt conflicted about what I was seeing. Like other villains this show has seen, I don't believe Bajaj needs any special considerations as if he's a lead, he can be a slightly more dangerous villain by virtue of being able to manipulate situations better than previous ones but at the end of the day from what we've now seen that's who he is and always will be. The show started with AnuPre and Bajaj hasn't shown up until almost a year later, he is not on par with them as a lead. Whether you like it or not, based on ITV tropes and past precedent, it is safe to say he's a villain. We can talk endlessly about any of these villains and leads actually being grey because in real life that's how people are, we're all grey, but these fictional shows are not real life so we don't need to treat them that way.

Its nice that you didn't give me a lit class because I've a degree in both psych and lit. I won't bother with explaining why Bajaj is the quintessential grey cause if you've read Shakespeare and Machiavelli and even Wuthering Heights(the madness,the twisted psyche), dostoevsky's crime and punishment to a degree,even Gaskell's north and south,there are enough hints for that. Since you're an apparently a lit major you must read up.

And who asked for special consideration for Bajaj? Even without that status,his motivations are not villainous. It is grey.

Since you brought up ITV which am a whole veteran at here's why he's not a villain :

The thing is Bajaj can never be a full on villain because he is good to people who matter to him without any expectations,almost selfless to a point. If you have his trust,he will move mountains for you. It is only when you have tested his limits ,he is the worst version of himself with them. A villain is generally a bad person who is plain selfish and self serving at all times. They don't change with people and circumstances. Villains are very one dimensional on ITV. So I don't agree with you at all. Your ITV version of villain is very black and white. Bajaj is not plain black and white. Here let me quote you 'Whether you like it or not'. 😆

And please,this AnuPre came first and Bajaj is not par yada yada yada. Bajaj's status in the show as a lead or not does not color his status as a villain. Period. He has a spectrum he can work with. I see so many y'all reducing his status to a villain just cause you think he's a temporary addition which is just plain bs,excuse my french.

ITV may not be an Eng Lit class but that does mean you will paint anyone who isn't saintly with a villainous brush 😆If that was the case,one can easily do that with Anurag too lmfao. ITV villains are purely one dimensional and not even remotely dynamic like Bajaj. So let me reistate, he is as grey as they come. Whether you want it or not,or willing to see it or not.

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Its nice that you didn't give me a lit class because I've a degree in both psych and lit. I won't bother with explaining why Bajaj is the quintessential grey cause if you've read Shakespeare and Machiavelli and even Wuthering Heights(the madness,the twisted psyche), dostoevsky's crime and punishment to a degree,even Gaskell's north and south,there are enough hints for that. Since you're an apparently a lit major you must read up.

And who asked for special consideration for Bajaj? Even without that status,his motivations are not villainous. It is grey.

Since you brought up ITV which am a whole veteran at here's why he's not a villain :

The thing is Bajaj can never be a full on villain because he is good to people who matter to him without any expectations,almost selfless to a point. If you have his trust,he will move mountains for you. It is only when you have tested his limits ,he is the worst version of himself with them. A villain is generally a bad person who is plain selfish and self serving at all times. They don't change with people and circumstances. Villains are very one dimensional on ITV. So I don't agree with you at all. Your ITV version of villain is very black and white. Bajaj is not plain black and white. Here let me quote you 'Whether you like it or not'. 😆

And please,this AnuPre came first and Bajaj is not par yada yada yada. Bajaj's status in the show as a lead or not does not color his status as a villain. Period. He has a spectrum he can work with. I see so many y'all reducing his status to a villain just cause you think he's a temporary addition which is just plain bs,excuse my french.

ITV may not be an Eng Lit class but that does mean you will paint anyone who isn't saintly with a villainous brush 😆If that was the case,one can easily do that with Anurag too lmfao. ITV villains are purely one dimensional and not even remotely dynamic like Bajaj. So let me reistate, he is as grey as they come. Whether you want it or not,or willing to see it or not.

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Its nice that you didn't give me a lit class because I've a degree in both psych and lit. I won't bother with explaining why Bajaj is the quintessential grey cause if you've read Shakespeare and Machiavelli and even Wuthering Heights(the madness,the twisted psyche), dostoevsky's crime and punishment to a degree,even Gaskell's north and south,there are enough hints for that. Since you're an apparently a lit major you must read up.

And who asked for special consideration for Bajaj? Even without that status,his motivations are not villainous. It is grey.

Since you brought up ITV which am a whole veteran at here's why he's not a villain :

The thing is Bajaj can never be a full on villain because he is good to people who matter to him without any expectations,almost selfless to a point. If you have his trust,he will move mountains for you. It is only when you have tested his limits ,he is the worst version of himself with them. A villain is generally a bad person who is plain selfish and self serving at all times. They don't change with people and circumstances. Villains are very one dimensional on ITV. So I don't agree with you at all. Your ITV version of villain is very black and white. Bajaj is not plain black and white. Here let me quote you 'Whether you like it or not'. 😆

And please,this AnuPre came first and Bajaj is not par yada yada yada. Bajaj's status in the show as a lead or not does not color his status as a villain. Period. He has a spectrum he can work with. I see so many y'all reducing his status to a villain just cause you think he's a temporary addition which is just plain bs,excuse my french.

ITV may not be an Eng Lit class but that does mean you will paint anyone who isn't saintly with a villainous brush 😆If that was the case,one can easily do that with Anurag too lmfao. ITV villains are purely one dimensional and not even remotely dynamic like Bajaj. So let me reistate, he is as grey as they come. Whether you want it or not,or willing to see it or not.

@ bolded - the one line nailed it all. Villains on ITV are always what you see is what you get, they are never specifically one way or the other. The same argument everyone is having on Bajaj can be placed on Mohini. To the Sharmas and to Prerna, she is a villain, but she loves her family and children wholeheartedly. All her motivations, underhanded and wrong, have been to protect them. It's the same here with Bajaj. Of course Bajaj is entirely more layered than Mohini but he does not operate on the regular villain sketch ITV is so fond of. He is not destroying for the sake of destroying, he is not cruel for the sake of being cruel. He is bored and unamused by the antics of those around him, and he's had enough of them staking claim in his family.

Originally posted by: najma123

Wonderfully replied! I loved this. Absolutely. Coz I think it cleared MY own head a bit. 😳 In about 1.5 months, I'd be super duper free with life, please give me book suggestions. 😆

Any Orhan Pamuk for his detailed prose. For a more emotional read, Marquez. Love in the time of cholera is the most popular read but pick any. If you are sentimental Marquez will destroy you. 😆 If you want to laugh : PG Wodehouse. ALL OF THIS BOOKS. Anything realistic : Orwell. If you want a random suggestion, Milan Kundera.

Originally posted by: vena.cava.

@ bolded - the one line nailed it all. Villains on ITV are always what you see is what you get, they are never specifically one way or the other. The same argument everyone is having on Bajaj can be placed on Mohini. To the Sharmas and to Prerna, she is a villain, but she loves her family and children wholeheartedly. All her motivations, underhanded and wrong, have been to protect them. It's the same here with Bajaj. Of course Bajaj is entirely more layered than Mohini but he does not operate on the regular villain sketch ITV is so fond of. He is not destroying for the sake of destroying, he is not cruel for the sake of being cruel. He is bored and unamused by the antics of those around him, and he's had enough of them staking claim in his family.

Exactly! Kinda amused as well as perplexed at this ' Bajaj is a ITV villain' narrative because where lol. Where on ITV has there been a villain whose characterization is so skillfully layered? Villains on ITV have been so simple and stupid 😆 Layering toh hain nahi even motivations are basic. I'm a literal Ekta and ITV veteran and someome saying Bajaj has the tropes of a villains is such an insult to him. Putting him in the same bracket as those do takke ke villains just because.. urgh. What even. 😆

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Exactly! Kinda amused as well as perplexed at this ' Bajaj is a ITV villain' narrative because where lol. Where on ITV has there been a villain whose characterization is so skillfully layered? Villains on ITV have been so simple and stupid 😆 Layering toh hain nahi even motivations are basic. I'm a literal Ekta and ITV veteran and someome saying Bajaj has the tropes of a villains is such an insult to him. Putting him in the same bracket as those do takke ke villains just because.. urgh. What even. 😆

Same LOL. ITV villains always follow the same caricatures, like look at Komo and Naveen Babu. There has never been a villain on ITV that is layered and evil. They all have very simple dimensional writing standards that are followed. And it's easy to pick them out because they don't make you as the viewer feel conflicted, which is what Bajaj has done pretty masterfully. He's put us through the ringer and showed moments of genuine love and affection and then turned it on it's head and showed us something visceral. IDK why it's a point of contingency either but I don't really debate in this forum, just ignore unless I find posts like yours that I agree with lol.

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Its nice that you didn't give me a lit class because I've a degree in both psych and lit. I won't bother with explaining why Bajaj is the quintessential grey cause if you've read Shakespeare and Machiavelli and even Wuthering Heights(the madness,the twisted psyche), dostoevsky's crime and punishment to a degree,even Gaskell's north and south,there are enough hints for that. Since you're an apparently a lit major you must read up.

And who asked for special consideration for Bajaj? Even without that status,his motivations are not villainous. It is grey.

Since you brought up ITV which am a whole veteran at here's why he's not a villain :

The thing is Bajaj can never be a full on villain because he is good to people who matter to him without any expectations,almost selfless to a point. If you have his trust,he will move mountains for you. It is only when you have tested his limits ,he is the worst version of himself with them. A villain is generally a bad person who is plain selfish and self serving at all times. They don't change with people and circumstances. Villains are very one dimensional on ITV. So I don't agree with you at all. Your ITV version of villain is very black and white. Bajaj is not plain black and white. Here let me quote you 'Whether you like it or not'. 😆

And please,this AnuPre came first and Bajaj is not par yada yada yada. Bajaj's status in the show as a lead or not does not color his status as a villain. Period. He has a spectrum he can work with. I see so many y'all reducing his status to a villain just cause you think he's a temporary addition which is just plain bs,excuse my french.

ITV may not be an Eng Lit class but that does mean you will paint anyone who isn't saintly with a villainous brush 😆If that was the case,one can easily do that with Anurag too lmfao. ITV villains are purely one dimensional and not even remotely dynamic like Bajaj. So let me reistate, he is as grey as they come. Whether you want it or not,or willing to see it or not.

He’s a villain in Anurag and Prernas life, simple as that. You may be more inclined to hear his side of the story than Anurag and Prernas but that wouldn’t change his character arc. He’s manipulated Anurag and Prerna like the other two villains have. I sincerely think he’s a sociopath and can only emulate emotions when he wants to. That makes him more dangerous than the other two villains. I don’t think he’s in love with Prerna, or maybe he’s really trying to love her, but he wants to keep her around. His sociopathic tendencies makes him want to kill Anurag. That makes him a dangerous villain. Yeah he’s a “dynamic” villain, especially from the last couple of episodes, but a villain nonetheless!

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Any Orhan Pamuk for his detailed prose. For a more emotional read, Marquez. Love in the time of cholera is the most popular read but pick any. If you are sentimental Marquez will destroy you. 😆 If you want to laugh : PG Wodehouse. ALL OF THIS BOOKS. Anything realistic : Orwell. If you want a random suggestion, Milan Kundera.

Originally posted by: music_l0ver036

I think people have more of a problem with using the word villain than actually considering Bajaj a villain. All villains are not made equal lmao. Naveen was a villain through and through because he used almost every single person for her personal gain (even Mohini included). With Komolika, she was so used to getting her way that she even snatched her own sisters boyfriend. Komolika found Anurag interesting so she wanted to marry him, which was a small step up from naveen wanting to marry Prerna so he could basically have sex with her. With Bajaj, he’s more elevated than the others. I can give you that. But being more calculated and smart about his moves doesn’t take him from being villain to a dynamic character. Everyone has a story, naveen did, Komolika did and now we’re finding that Bajaj has a story of his own. It layers him and we’re able to understand his motives better. But at the end of the day, he’s here to wreak havoc in Anurag and Prernas life. That’s what he was brought to do.

He’s a villain in Anurag and Prernas life, simple as that. You may be more inclined to hear his side of the story than Anurag and Prernas but that wouldn’t change his character arc. He’s manipulated Anurag and Prerna like the other two villains have. I sincerely think he’s a sociopath and can only emulate emotions when he wants to. That makes him more dangerous than the other two villains. I don’t think he’s in love with Prerna, or maybe he’s really trying to love her, but he wants to keep her around. His sociopathic tendencies makes him want to kill Anurag. That makes him a dangerous villain. Yeah he’s a “dynamic” villain, especially from the last couple of episodes, but a villain nonetheless!

Nope. Grey. Thanks :D

Originally posted by: AllThatCritique

Its nice that you didn't give me a lit class because I've a degree in both psych and lit. I won't bother with explaining why Bajaj is the quintessential grey cause if you've read Shakespeare and Machiavelli and even Wuthering Heights(the madness,the twisted psyche), dostoevsky's crime and punishment to a degree,even Gaskell's north and south,there are enough hints for that. Since you're an apparently a lit major you must read up.

And who asked for special consideration for Bajaj? Even without that status,his motivations are not villainous. It is grey.

Since you brought up ITV which am a whole veteran at here's why he's not a villain :

The thing is Bajaj can never be a full on villain because he is good to people who matter to him without any expectations,almost selfless to a point. If you have his trust,he will move mountains for you. It is only when you have tested his limits ,he is the worst version of himself with them. A villain is generally a bad person who is plain selfish and self serving at all times. They don't change with people and circumstances. Villains are very one dimensional on ITV. So I don't agree with you at all. Your ITV version of villain is very black and white. Bajaj is not plain black and white. Here let me quote you 'Whether you like it or not'. 😆

And please,this AnuPre came first and Bajaj is not par yada yada yada. Bajaj's status in the show as a lead or not does not color his status as a villain. Period. He has a spectrum he can work with. I see so many y'all reducing his status to a villain just cause you think he's a temporary addition which is just plain bs,excuse my french.

ITV may not be an Eng Lit class but that does mean you will paint anyone who isn't saintly with a villainous brush 😆If that was the case,one can easily do that with Anurag too lmfao. ITV villains are purely one dimensional and not even remotely dynamic like Bajaj. So let me reistate, he is as grey as they come. Whether you want it or not,or willing to see it or not.

As someone who has read most of what you've listed and someone who has watched EK shows as well I'm pretty confident in my critique as I'm sure you are in yours. Your description of what a villain is is pretty unfair if you ask me. Since you have a degree in psych, you probably do know that everyone, no matter who they are and how heinous their actions, cares about something in their life or this world. So Bajaj singularly having love for only his family does not make him a grey character. It may humanize his portrayal to us, but doesn't make him grey. Caring about and loving things doesn't make you bad or good, it just makes you a basic human being. And no one is disputing that about Bajaj. I just believe that he shouldn't be grey, for which I've provided plenty of reasons in my original post. The CVs started out by attempting to portray him that way but the most recent episodes have certainly proved what a fair number of us believed when he first struck a deal with Prerna, that he's here as a villain in Anurag and Prerna's story. I've even provided for the fact that while he may be here longer than previous villains and that he may even have a more important role in this story than previous ones, that only makes him a more dangerous villain than any of them were. The grey characters of this story I believe are Anurag's mother and sister. While their love for Anurag is evident, their classism, ill-treatment of Prerna and her family and general manner of controlling Anurag is what makes them grey. They've been good, they've been bad, they've repented, then judged harshly once again, they've schemed and manipulated and sometimes been reviled and that's truly being grey. I think there's enough material on this show and in this forum that proves that so I don't believe I have to expand on that further. I'm not interested in painting anyone with a brush. I, like you and all the others on this forum, just enjoy watching this show and obviously also enjoy clashing with others or finding those who echo my sentiments from time to time. The thing that makes this forum and by extension ITV much like a lit class, is that we may consume the same literature or show and yet disagree vastly on so much about it, but I think it's our mutual love for it that brings us back time and again to debate endlessly about the same and that keeps the fire for it and all it represents alive :)