She will be his conscience keeper.. - Page 2

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#11
Dear Jamy,

I see that you not only have impeccable comic timing - your take on Bhanumati on Duryodhana's shoulder is hilarious! - but depth as well. This is a very perceptive assessment the situation as it stands at present, though I have not read The Handmaid's Tale.

And your extended, multicoloured take on the 'sutas' was dazzling; I have not taken it in properly yet!

Here, as I wrote to Sabita above, Uruvi might think she is going to be Karna's conscience keeper, but the aforesaid conscience is firmly locked and the key is not with her, it is with Duryodhana. In this context, I appreciated your noticing, and interpreting, Duryodhana's outstretched arm coming between Karna and Uruvi. I didn't really take that in myself.

That is never going to change, for Karna has sold his soul for friendship (though I am not sure if it is friendship, or a very astute purchase by Duryodhana) and in gratitude. One can say that Uruvi should accept and love him as he is, but as things develop, that is going to become increasingly difficult. For Uruvi is not one of the spoilt, pampered princesses who think of nothing beyond their shringaar. She has a clear notion of right and wrong, and that is a most uncomfortable thing. She is also an uncompromising female, witness the dressing down she gives Arjun. A potentially very difficult situation.

There were some other things I failed to understand yesternight.

One. Karna is a raja now in his own right. Does he not deserve a seat, even if it behind Duryodhana's ? Why does he have to stand there like a servant or a bodyguard? It would have been humiliating if he had perceived it in that light, but he is not yet used to his new status, and where Duryodhana is concerned, he has no qualms in accepting any kind of status. So he stands there like an aide de camp.

Two. When Uruvi calls out to Karna and beseeches him to stop and not do this - her eyes plead eloquently even after she has stopped talking - he comes back to the barrier of arrows. I would have expected his face, especially his eyes, to reflect the turmoil that one would presume is raging within him - the conflict between his loyalty to his friend and his consciousness that what they are doing is very wrong.

But there was absolutely nothing. He just gazes at her the way he does all the time. It is only after she mentions Arjun that the resentment boils over and shows on his face.

The contrast between her anxious, bewildered, beseeching eyes and his stony face was sharp. I know that most here might not agree with me, but this Karna has to shape up in terms of emoting.

Three. What is this sheer gauze doshala type thing Karna was wearing when he went to deliver Duryodhana's message to Bhanumati? It was clumsy and inelegant, making him look, with that leather crossbelt, like a captain of the guard .

Four. Why is every movement in this show in slow motion? Even when Karna takes the arrow out of the quiver to shoot at the bells above, it is in slowmo. When he walks out of the room, it is not with the quick, straightbacked stride of a warrior. He moves excruciatingly slowly, his shoulders are hunched, and his body language is completely off.

Incidentally, do men parade about with their bows and arrows even when visiting royal ladies? And how does Karna get into that room, oe even near it, anyway?

I don't know what Uruvi plans to do with that dagger. I hope she does not end up stabbing the wrong man!😆

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

KarnSangini started giving me the anxious vibes of uncertainty. KS is everything Mahabharata is but totally opposite to it at the same time. It has this quality of life that makes us see in it the uncertainty in our life daily. No one can 100% know what happens next in our lives. It is the same with KS.

In the last episode, Duryodhana's outstretched arm between Karna and Urvi was the clear indication of what she should expect from future. As I watched her expressions seeing it, I got the same feelings that I got while reading The Handmaid's Tale. Urvi's Karna-is-the-best idea is broken. She should accept him as the whole package not just as a man of kind and considerate acts. And she should decide later, whether to love a man who might forever be separated from her soul by an invisible wall and who might make unforgivable mistakes, or desert her feelings and move on. She has not yet fallen in love with him, which is good. It will be the same old saas-bahu show story if they show her marrying Karna and find his faults later. Let her love him for what he is.

On a side note, what was Bhaanumati doing on Suyodhana's shoulder for so loonggg? I understood that he was running away with her. But from the point where everyone began trying to stop them to Karna finally turning back, he was simply standing there carrying her on his one shoulder, for so many minutes, perfectly allowing Urvi and Karna to have so many eye locks and aap aisa nahin hai's, only to say in the end chalo mitr, hum chalte hai'. What nonsense was that?

This Suyodhana is a really funny guy.😆

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#12
Dear Riti,

I too loved both the title and your post.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: gemini54

Loved the title.👏

When the person who you care for deeply does not know right from wrong then you become there conscience keeper.
The episode was beautiful and loved your analysis

Antara123 thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#13
Can someone tell me when this hand thing happened? When Duryodhan stretched his hand between Karn and Urvi. I saw the episode like twice but didn't find this scene at all? Lol
Antara123 thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#14
Also, Aunty. I agree with some aspects. Again I am not able to quote. So I'll just refer to some things you mentioned in both your posts above.
Some things are downright funny. There are no soldiers at all in Kalinga. I mean, when one man enters peacefully into that dancing room, there are two female guards. But Duryodhan is carrying her away but there's not a single attempt by any soldier. In fact her Dad says Koi bachao. You are a king. If you can't protect or even attempt to protect your daughter from a prince turned kidnapper, how are you gonna protect your people? 😆
Also, the king's are all firing arrows and Urvi stands like a mahaanta ki murti in front of them staring at Karn. And this entire eyelock thing was awesome from the love story point of view but it was so funny that no one else said anything and everyone's waiting for their eye lock to break. And Bhanumati isn't even reacting. She isn't shouting, attempting to fend Duryodhan off. It's like Duryodhan is the royal dhobi carrying a huge bag of royal clothes on his shoulders. Lol.

Coming to Urvi loving Karn thing, I think there are gonna be more dimensions to it. Coz right now, her first image of a perfect prince and fairy tale Prince Charming is broken and shattered. I think that's what I could see. More than Karn's conscience and turmoil which wasn't blatantly shown. I think they focused on Karn from Urvi's perspective. Up until morning, she's super impressed with him. A stranger who's strong and magnanimous and mystifying and silently brooding. Now too, he's silent but his actions put him in the wrong. And her amazement is broken.

So let's see how she deals with loving this guy who can never be completely hers the way she can be his. She can support him through thick and thin, but he'd do that only as long as it doesn't interfere with his equation with Duryodhan. For Urvi, love knows no bar. For Karn, the bar for anything is Duryodhan.
And it's not easy to choose a man whom you know would never choose you over his friend. And it takes a great deal to give up your love coz he doesn't treat you as fairly as you treat him. But it takes an equally great deal to accept him knowing you will never be as important to him as he is to you. XD

Despite the laughable idiosyncracies, I loved how they showed her turmoil yesterday. Lol

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#15
It was when Duryodhana has grasped Bhanumati's wrist and stopped her from moving on.

Uruvi is horrified and looks across and over Duryodhana's arm at Karna, obviously hoping that he will do something to stop Duryodhana and save Bhanumati.

It was a single shot - Uruvi on the left lower side,the arm in between, and Karna on the upper right side, as he is at a higher level. He is looking down at Duryodhana's arm, and I was struck by the fact that there is NO emotion on his face, no shock, no disapproval, nothing.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: najma123

Can someone tell me when this hand thing happened? When Duryodhan stretched his hand between Karn and Urvi. I saw the episode like twice but didn't find this scene at all? Lol

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#16
A very neat collection of absurdities, Najma. Ludicrous. Let us hope the future episodes do not add to the list!

What is more, both Uruvi and Karna move oh so slowly, as if they were participating in an egg and spoon race😆. It was very irritatiing. But at least she produced the right expressions - her turmoil came thru clearly in her eyes - which was more than you could say of him.

There is another crucial point in such a love affair and marriage, from Uruvi's point of view. She will have to put up not only with always being No.2 in his life, which could be managed if she loved him enough, but also to tolerate all the crimes to which he will be an accessory. That is far worse.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: najma123

Also, Aunty. I agree with some aspects. Again I am not able to quote. So I'll just refer to some things you mentioned in both your posts above.

Some things are downright funny. There are no soldiers at all in Kalinga. I mean, when one man enters peacefully into that dancing room, there are two female guards. But Duryodhan is carrying her away but there's not a single attempt by any soldier. In fact her Dad says Koi bachao. You are a king. If you can't protect or even attempt to protect your daughter from a prince turned kidnapper, how are you gonna protect your people? 😆
Also, the king's are all firing arrows and Urvi stands like a mahaanta ki murti in front of them staring at Karn. And this entire eyelock thing was awesome from the love story point of view but it was so funny that no one else said anything and everyone's waiting for their eye lock to break. And Bhanumati isn't even reacting. She isn't shouting, attempting to fend Duryodhan off. It's like Duryodhan is the royal dhobi carrying a huge bag of royal clothes on his shoulders. Lol.

Coming to Urvi loving Karn thing, I think there are gonna be more dimensions to it. Coz right now, her first image of a perfect prince and fairy tale Prince Charming is broken and shattered. I think that's what I could see. More than Karn's conscience and turmoil which wasn't blatantly shown. I think they focused on Karn from Urvi's perspective. Up until morning, she's super impressed with him. A stranger who's strong and magnanimous and mystifying and silently brooding. Now too, he's silent but his actions put him in the wrong. And her amazement is broken.

So let's see how she deals with loving this guy who can never be completely hers the way she can be his. She can support him through thick and thin, but he'd do that only as long as it doesn't interfere with his equation with Duryodhan. For Urvi, love knows no bar. For Karn, the bar for anything is Duryodhan.
And it's not easy to choose a man whom you know would never choose you over his friend. And it takes a great deal to give up your love coz he doesn't treat you as fairly as you treat him. But it takes an equally great deal to accept him knowing you will never be as important to him as he is to you. XD

Despite the laughable idiosyncracies, I loved how they showed her turmoil yesterday. Lol

Edited by sashashyam - 6 years ago
riti4u thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Riti,

I too loved both the title and your post.

Shyamala Aunty




Thank you Aunty. Loved reading your replies here 😊
gemini54 thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#18
Dear Aunty
First of all I am in awe of your beautiful writing. You are absolutely right Karna has sold his soul to the devil. He is a tragic hero in the real sense. You are right people call him gray I think because within him he does have the goodness of charity where he does not care for material possessions and he is Loyal to a fault. It is sad that he has sworn loyalty to Duryodhan but nevertheless loyal.
I think this is a tragic love story indeed not in the likes of Romeo and Juliet but tragic because Uruvi can give it all but still fall short and Karna May try to give it all but still fall short.
P.S This forum has such fantastic writers I am glad I chanced upon it


QUOTE=sashashyam]
<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">Yes, my dear Sabita, but what do you do when the conscience in question has a lock, and the key is not with you but with someone else?</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">This is exactly what is going to happen to Uruvi. She may be able to distinguish unambiguoulsy between right and wrong, and she would surely also try to bring this distinction home to Karna, but to what avail?</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">He may know when he is in the wrong, but he will still do what Duryodhana wants, which is bound to be wrong 99% of the time.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">As I wrote above, she is falling for a man who has sold his soul and can no longer call it his own. And that soul is already getting corroded. I was struck by the fact that last night, he has NO hesitation in promoting what he himself had condemned the day before, depriving a woman of the right to choose her life partner.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">Shyamala Aunty</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">

Originally posted by: gemini54

Loved the title.👏
</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">When the person who you care for deeply does not know right from wrong then you become there conscience keeper.</font>
<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">The episode was beautiful and loved your analysis</font>
<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">


</font>
Edited by gemini54 - 6 years ago
Brahmaputra thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Dear Jamy,

I see that you not only have impeccable comic timing - your take on Bhanumati on Duryodhana's shoulder is hilarious! - but depth as well. This is a very perceptive assessment the situation as it stands at present, though I have not read The Handmaid's Tale.

And your extended, multicoloured take on the 'sutas' was dazzling; I have not taken it in properly yet!

Here, as I wrote to Sabita above, Uruvi might think she is going to be Karna's conscience keeper, but the aforesaid conscience is firmly locked and the key is not with her, it is with Duryodhana. In this context, I appreciated your noticing, and interpreting, Duryodhana's outstretched arm coming between Karna and Uruvi. I didn't really take that in myself.

That is never going to change, for Karna has sold his soul for friendship (though I am not sure if it is friendship, or a very astute purchase by Duryodhana) and in gratitude. One can say that Uruvi should accept and love him as he is, but as things develop, that is going to become increasingly difficult. For Uruvi is not one of the spoilt, pampered princesses who think of nothing beyond their shringaar. She has a clear notion of right and wrong, and that is a most uncomfortable thing. She is also an uncompromising female, witness the dressing down she gives Arjun. A potentially very difficult situation.

There were some other things I failed to understand yesternight.

One. Karna is a raja now in his own right. Does he not deserve a seat, even if it behind Duryodhana's ? Why does he have to stand there like a servant or a bodyguard? It would have been humiliating if he had perceived it in that light, but he is not yet used to his new status, and where Duryodhana is concerned, he has no qualms in accepting any kind of status. So he stands there like an aide de camp.

Two. When Uruvi calls out to Karna and beseeches him to stop and not do this - her eyes plead eloquently even after she has stopped talking - he comes back to the barrier of arrows. I would have expected his face, especially his eyes, to reflect the turmoil that one would presume is raging within him - the conflict between his loyalty to his friend and his consciousness that what they are doing is very wrong.

But there was absolutely nothing. He just gazes at her the way he does all the time. It is only after she mentions Arjun that the resentment boils over and shows on his face.

The contrast between her anxious, bewildered, beseeching eyes and his stony face was sharp. I know that most here might not agree with me, but this Karna has to shape up in terms of emoting.

Three. What is this sheer gauze doshala type thing Karna was wearing when he went to deliver Duryodhana's message to Bhanumati? It was clumsy and inelegant, making him look, with that leather crossbelt, like a captain of the guard .

Four. Why is every movement in this show in slow motion? Even when Karna takes the arrow out of the quiver to shoot at the bells above, it is in slowmo. When he walks out of the room, it is not with the quick, straightbacked stride of a warrior. He moves excruciatingly slowly, his shoulders are hunched, and his body language is completely off.

Incidentally, do men parade about with their bows and arrows even when visiting royal ladies? And how does Karna get into that room, oe even near it, anyway?

I don't know what Uruvi plans to do with that dagger. I hope she does not end up stabbing the wrong man!😆

Shyamala




Right now, having watched yesterday's episode and forgotten everything after that initial BGM, I am struggling to gather my song-struck neurons to reply...

Thanks a lot for your beautiful words about me.😊 See, I almost forgot them. That disastrous BGM!😡

Karna was a King but was not invited there. And I don't think he was not yet popular with other Kings. Just because Suyo accepted him, others needn't. But in reality, he was trying to get a little [or less] attention. I don't know whose. Don't ask me!

Karna's stoic face only seem to be an electric fence to guard his lovelorn heart from possible trespassers! I feel like he is man who keeps everything to himself, and doesn't want to share anything he gurads within, it might not be anything great but that is his little world where he feels the safest. How could he let strangers in?

Urvi has a tough job ahead, cracking this nut, and showing him that he could love. I am sure now itself that he will cry, cry like a small boy who having lost his home on the way back cries still louder as he finds it...

Urvi - dekhiye...😛

Karna - haan.

Urvi - aaj main bahut sundar lag rahi hoon, hai na?😃

Karna - haan.

Urvi - aap ko aaj raat khane mein kya chahiye? daal chaval?😊

Karna - haan.

Urvi [suspiciously] - aap ko bukhaar hai kya?😕

Karna - haan.

Urvi - toh aap ko kya main aag laga doon?🤔

Karna - haan.

😡 😡 😡Now she gets angry, pulls away the bow he is polishing, breaks it into two and beats him up with a piece.

That is how they are going to be!🥱
Edited by Brahmaputra - 6 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
#20
🤣

I still think Karna should have got a seat, and that Duryodhana should have made sure of that.

I would have written some more, but my fingers are becoming autonomous and moving sideways. I think I am heading for a bad few days. So this is it!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra




Right now, having watched yesterday's episode and forgotten everything after that initial BGM, I am struggling to gather my song-struck neurons to reply...

Thanks a lot for your beautiful words about me.😊 See, I almost forgot them. That disastrous BGM!😡

Karna was a King but was not invited there. And I don't think he was not yet popular with other Kings. Just because Suyo accepted him, others needn't. But in reality, he was trying to get a little [or less] attention. I don't know whose. Don't ask me!

Karna's stoic face only seem to be an electric fence to guard his lovelorn heart from possible trespassers! I feel like he is man who keeps everything to himself, and doesn't want to share anything he gurads within, it might not be anything great but that is his little world where he feels the safest. How could he let strangers in?

This is all very well, but this is presuming that when the time comes, he will be able to show emotion, and not just feel it. I have some doubts, but you folks are more knowledgeable about our hero's range as an actor, so I shall possess my soul in patience!

Urvi has a tough job ahead, cracking this nut, and showing him that he could love. I am sure now itself that he will cry, cry like a small boy who having lost his home on the way back cries still louder as he finds it...

Very nice, and psychologically sound. But all the weeping apart, he will still stick to Duryodhana, so Uruvi will be left acting nursemaid when the crying fit takes him.

Urvi - dekhiye...😛

Karna - haan.

Urvi - aaj main bahut sundar lag rahi hoon, hai na?😃

Karna - haan.

Urvi - aap ko aaj raat khane mein kya chahiye? daal chaval?😊

Karna - haan.

Urvi [suspiciously] - aap ko bukhaar hai kya?😕

Karna - haan.

Urvi - toh aap ko kya main aag laga doon?🤔

Karna - haan.

😡 😡 😡Now she gets angry, pulls away the bow he is polishing, breaks it into two and beats him up with a piece.

That is how they are going to be!🥱

Serve the stupid chap right! But at the last, he will probably add something about his Mitr needing him now, and so he has to go look for another bow. On which happy note, he will scoot to Mitr, and Uruvi will be tearing her longgg hair out. 😆

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