The Throne of Hastinapur

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To whom do you think the Throne of Hastinapura truely belonged?

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nuomi.riceball

@nuomi.riceball

Sparkler

Posted: 17 years ago

#41

Originally posted by: shyam.rathi

No problems... If these are your 'personal' views, there is no point having a discussion over them..

Cheers 😳

well if you say that then now people who are against the caste system will not attain moksha. if you say that the caste system is something that is to be followed, differentiating people just because of which family they were born then the present society who are against the caste system, the present government who promotes against caste system and those people who do not wish to go back to the caste system will not attain moksha. only those people who are advantaged by caste system, those people who have high status in the caste system would want to go back practicing thecaste system. the untouchables and those who are treated harshly by the caste system will not want to go back to it. then those people who do not want to follow the caste system, do not want to follow the scriptures will not attain moksha. if you really want to follow the scriptures, then are you treating person differently just because of their caste? cause that's what we are supposed to do if we follow the scriptures.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 17 years ago

#42

Originally posted by: rongna
well if you say that then now people who are against the caste system will not attain moksha. if you say that the caste system is something that is to be followed, differentiating people just because of which family they were born then the present society who are against the caste system, the present government who promotes against caste system and those people who do not wish to go back to the caste system will not attain moksha. only those people who are advantaged by caste system, those people who have high status in the caste system would want to go back practicing thecaste system. the untouchables and those who are treated harshly by the caste system will not want to go back to it. then those people who do not want to follow the caste system, do not want to follow the scriptures will not attain moksha. if you really want to follow the scriptures, then are you treating person differently just because of their caste? cause that's what we are supposed to do if we follow the scriptures.

Are people treated equally today? No, not at all. They are treated worse than the caste system ever treated them. If one is not educated, they are looked down upon. If one is from a different religion, many people view them with suspicion. We hear about murders, rapes, thefts, and so much more on the news every day. Our society is messed up. No one is treated equally. If someone has less money, many of the rich folk do not think they are worth the salt of their day. People are arrogant, jealous, materialistic, ignorant, etc, do you know why? Because they are going further and further away from the scriptures, and ultimately, further away from God and Moksha. People have developed such a bad view on the caste system, on the basis that their society is more equal today, but that is totally not true. Our society is going further anf further away from equality. It's just that no one realizes it.

And please please know about the caste system fully before commenting on it. Many people think they know enough to comment and degrade it, but only if they read the Vedas and Upanishads fully do they understand the full extent. Even I have not read the Vedas and Upanishads, but I know a lot about the caste system because of my parents and grand-parents. One must understand something fully before commenting about it at all. Many only see the unequality of the caste system, but they never ever try to see the equality aspect of it. They don't understand that the caste system kept society harmonious, and more religious than it is now. People are moving further away from our beautiful Hindu scriptures there days, and thus further away from God, and if you move further away from God, you are moving further away from moksha, or ultimate liberation. One must follow the scriptures if they want to attain moksha, whether they like it or not. How can anyone expect to merge with God with the lifestyles most people lead today, one of ultimate materialism and time waste.

One proof that the caste system society is better than the "equal" society today: Compare the crimes of the past to the crimes of today. How many crimes were there in the Ramayana and Mahabharata times compared to today? Today's society is steeped into sin, and the worse thing is that people don't seem to care.

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nuomi.riceball

@nuomi.riceball

Sparkler

Posted: 17 years ago

#43

Originally posted by: godisone

Are people treated equally today? No, not at all. They are treated worse than the caste system ever treated them. If one is not educated, they are looked down upon. If one is from a different religion, many people view them with suspicion. We hear about murders, rapes, thefts, and so much more on the news every day. Our society is messed up. No one is treated equally. If someone has less money, many of the rich folk do not think they are worth the salt of their day. People are arrogant, jealous, materialistic, ignorant, etc, do you know why? Because they are going further and further away from the scriptures, and ultimately, further away from God and Moksha. People have developed such a bad view on the caste system, on the basis that their society is more equal today, but that is totally not true. Our society is going further anf further away from equality. It's just that no one realizes it.

And please please know about the caste system fully before commenting on it. Many people think they know enough to comment and degrade it, but only if they read the Vedas and Upanishads fully do they understand the full extent. Even I have not read the Vedas and Upanishads, but I know a lot about the caste system because of my parents and grand-parents. One must understand something fully before commenting about it at all. Many only see the unequality of the caste system, but they never ever try to see the equality aspect of it. They don't understand that the caste system kept society harmonious, and more religious than it is now. People are moving further away from our beautiful Hindu scriptures there days, and thus further away from God, and if you move further away from God, you are moving further away from moksha, or ultimate liberation. One must follow the scriptures if they want to attain moksha, whether they like it or not. How can anyone expect to merge with God with the lifestyles most people lead today, one of ultimate materialism and time waste.

One proof that the caste system society is better than the "equal" society today: Compare the crimes of the past to the crimes of today. How many crimes were there in the Ramayana and Mahabharata times compared to today? Today's society is steeped into sin, and the worse thing is that people don't seem to care.

hey godisone i am sorry if i have offend you in anyways. i know that this caste system is a sensitive topic to be talked about and i should have chosen my words carefully in addressing this issue.

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TheEngineer

@TheEngineer

Explorer

Posted: 17 years ago

#44

Originally posted by: godisone
One proof that the caste system society is better than the "equal" society today: Compare the crimes of the past to the crimes of today. How many crimes were there in the Ramayana and Mahabharata times compared to today? Today's society is steeped into sin, and the worse thing is that people don't seem to care.

There is a logical fallacy in your analysis, which is called existential fallacy.. it may (or may not) be the case that the past societies had less crime than present ones, but there is no reason to associate this with the prevalence of caste system or lack of it.. your reasoning is equivalent to say that if some cats are black and some black things are televisions, then some cats are televisions..

The level of crime in a society may or may not be related to the prevalence of caste system.. it is a complex feature of a society which requires an analysis with more than one parameter..

Edited by shyam.rathi - 17 years ago

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nuomi.riceball

@nuomi.riceball

Sparkler

Posted: 16 years ago

#45

Originally posted by: shyam.rathi

No problems... If these are your 'personal' views, there is no point having a discussion over them..

Cheers 😳

hey godisone sorry for replying after such a long time but even though you were saying that the present society is much crueler than it was thousands of years ago when the caste system reigned our society. i agree with you that the present society is much more wicked and cruel now than it was that time but at least people nowadays even though the poor still continue to exist and being respected less than the rich people, the poor people are not stuck to the fate they were born into they could change their life from being poor to rich whereas in the time of caste system people were stucked in their caste circles in which they were born into and they were not to question it but to accept it and could not change the caste they belong into. also i was saying that you were saying that we have to follow the scriptures to attain moksha and caste system is part of the scriptures that we have to follow and there are a lot of people who do not want to follow the caste system nowadays. what i am trying to say is that you were saying that a person has to follow the scripture to attain moksha, then what about these people who do not want to follow the caste system which is something that has to be followed according to the scripture, this would mean that these people who are not following the caste system as per you say will not attain moksha. and also please forgive me if i offense you in any ways, if you were thinking that the caste system is not cruel are you following the caste system now and do you act as a person according to your caste whatever your caste might be. this is what i am trying to say. please correct me if i am wrong and i apologize for any mistake and any words that might offended you.

Edited by rongna - 16 years ago

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#46

Originally posted by: rongna
hey godisone sorry for replying after such a long time but even though you were saying that the present society is much crueler than it was thousands of years ago when the caste system reigned our society. i agree with you that the present society is much more wicked and cruel now than it was that time but at least people nowadays even though the poor still continue to exist and being respected less than the rich people, the poor people are not stuck to the fate they were born into they could change their life from being poor to rich whereas in the time of caste system people were stucked in their caste circles in which they were born into and they were not to question it but to accept it and could not change the caste they belong into. also i was saying that you were saying that we have to follow the scriptures to attain moksha and caste system is part of the scriptures that we have to follow and there are a lot of people who do not want to follow the caste system nowadays. what i am trying to say is that you were saying that a person has to follow the scripture to attain moksha, then what about these people who do not want to follow the caste system which is something that has to be followed according to the scripture, this would mean that these people who are not following the caste system as per you say will not attain moksha. and also please forgive me if i offense you in any ways, if you were thinking that the caste system is not cruel are you following the caste system now and do you act as a person according to your caste whatever your caste might be. this is what i am trying to say. please correct me if i am wrong and i apologize for any mistake and any words that might offended you.

No I'm not offended by your words, since you asked in a polite way.😊

I feel that there's one thing some people don't understand. The cruely that came from the caste system, the unfairness, the torture of lower classes, the prejudice, all of this is not instructed in our scriptures. Our scriptures don't tell us to stick our noses up on the "lower" class and think of them as "beneath our notice". All of this unfairness did not originate from the scriptures, but from the pride of the higher society. In the beginning of Kali Yug, and even during the last part of the Dwapar Yug, much of the higher caste thought themselves superiour to everyone, and felt ego about their "higher birth". "The untouchables" did not exist at all in our scriptures, but they were created by the people with the "scriptures" as their support. Much of the "lower caste" did not know the scriptures, so how would they know that Lord Brahma never created the untouchables? There are only four castes, never a fifth. It was a part of the higher caste that created the mysterious "untouchable" caste, and had it not been for Gandhiji, many people today would still believe the untouchables as a caste.

All of this racism people felt/still might feel towards lower castes originated from pride/conceit/ego. No where in our scriptures does it say to be prejudiced against other castes, and to treat them unfairly.

I am from the Brahmin Caste, and yes, I will follow the scriptures and also the caste system, but not the caste system people created, but the caste system according to the Vedas. I know the duties of a Brahmin, and the duties do not include snubbing "lower castes" or being racist. Brahmins should meditate on god, never touch/eat meat, conduct yagnas/poojas, and marry into another Brahmin Family. I will never be racist to other caste people. I have many friends who are from other castes, and I never refer to them as "lower castes" but "other castes", and I see them as my equals or greater than me because they have so much to offer to the world. Never ever would I see them as "lowers".

Everyday, I hear in the news how many people treat their servants in India, and it makes my blood boil the way those poor people are treated. Just because one is a Shudra does not mean they don't deserve the respect every human being should receive. A Shudra has the same value any other person in the world does, and should be acknowledged that dignity. People have interpreted the caste system according to the scriptures totally wrong, and over the years, it has turned into something cruel and unjust. In the name of scriptures, people mistreat others because of their caste, and that is not right at all, because the scriptures do not say to treat others unfairly.

One great example that everyone should treat others equally is Shri Rama. Shabari, who was from a "lower" cast, received moksha from the darshan of Shri Ram. Shri Rama ate fruits which were half bitten by Shabari, all out of love and compassion for the older woman.

Shri Ram always stated that everyone is equal, yet he also introduced himself as a Kshatriya. By this, he implied to us that regardless from which caste a person is, they are equal in the eyes of God, and they should be equal to each other also. What caste a person belongs to is an identity only, like our last name, except with a few duties different for each caste.

So don't get me wrong when I say I will follow the caste system. I will never treat others cruelly, but I will follow my duties as a Brahmin. That's what I mean.😊 To me, everyone is equal, and everyone should receive the same amount of dignity. I totally believe in equality and independence, and I look at the caste system as an identity only, not as something that has become unjust over the years.

When I said one must follow the caste system to attain moksha, that does not mean they have to be racist. It just means they have to follow the different Dharma (duties) of each caste. That's all.😊

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TheEngineer

@TheEngineer

Explorer

Posted: 16 years ago

#47

Originally posted by: godisone
Our scriptures don't tell us to stick our noses up on the "lower" class and think of them as "beneath our notice".

hey Lalitha, have you read 'Manu-Smriti'.. Can we count it as part of our scriptures? Just a question, may not be related to this thread 😊

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Mango Bhai!

@Lord-Mangeshwar

Rocker

Posted: 16 years ago

#48

Hmmm... the discussion seems to have changed to the caste system 😳

I'm from the good ol' Kshtriya caste, but just like godisone, I truly believe that everyone should be respected regardless of caste. I truly believe in the scriptures, and so I'll never go against them... at the end of the day, life is just a small part of a bigger picture - life is not the big picture itself. The scriptures take the bigger picture into account, and therefore, I must go by them 😊

As for the throne of Hastinapur, as per tradition, and the will of God, the throne belonged to the Yudhistir 👍🏼

All of the respected elders of Hastinapur recognised this to be the case... but it's a pity that the blind (in more ways than one) King wasn't able to openly admit that the Yudhistir was the righteous heir to the throne.

God bless.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#49

Originally posted by: Lord-Mangeshwar
Hmmm... the discussion seems to have changed to the caste system 😳

I'm from the good ol' Kshtriya caste, but just like godisone, I truly believe that everyone should be respected regardless of caste. I truly believe in the scriptures, and so I'll never go against them... at the end of the day, life is just a small part of a bigger picture - life is not the big picture itself. The scriptures take the bigger picture into account, and therefore, I must go by them 😊

As for the throne of Hastinapur, as per tradition, and the will of God, the throne belonged to the Yudhistir 👍🏼

All of the respected elders of Hastinapur recognised this to be the case... but it's a pity that the blind (in more ways than one) King wasn't able to openly admit that the Yudhistir was the righteous heir to the throne.

God bless.

Well said.👏 Caste System is important, but people should be respected regardless.

I see that you've changed your username.

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Mango Bhai!

@Lord-Mangeshwar

Rocker

Posted: 16 years ago

#50

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

Well said.👏 Caste System is important, but people should be respected regardless.

I see that you've changed your username.

Good to see you again Lalitha ji 😃

I've read through your posts on this topic, and as usual, your posts are always a delight to read 👍🏼 They are always packed with vast knowledge, and people like me get to learn things from them... so I just wanted to say thanks 😊

I changed my username, because my real name is not actually Ravi 😆 Most people on I-F call me "Mango Bhai"... and so I thought that I should change my username to that, and also, add a bit of holyness to it 😳 😆

Anyways, I noticed two things also... (1) You've changed your username, and (2) The top line of your siggy... it's somewhat familier! Hehehe.

God bless.