JA Oct 13|Hussein Under the Damocles' Sword, Updt Abhay P12, Oct14 P11 - Page 29

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

@blue: 😆😆😆

Originally posted by: JAfanCharu

Good morning Sindhu .

Beautifully and honestly written . ...😊

Every aspect of the portrayal of the Chittor war by the Creatives is completely and totally wrong .

Ofcourse Rukaiya was happy to see this version of Jalal . She was seeing an extension of her own personality .

As a wife and life partner, Jodha has never ever misguided Jalal or supported him in any wrong decision that he has made .In the instance of the Chittor war also she continued to do the same thing .She has always wanted to see his positive growth as a human being . She has already sensed that if he goes to war in his current state of mind , it will cause him more emotional damage later .She tried to stop him with HIS best intentions in mind. I totally agree with you in matter .

And yes, like you so correctly pointed out , what is wrong in supporting the Rajvanshis ? Just because she married into a Mughal family does not mean that she should forget her roots and allow her husband to massacre hundreds of innocent Rajvanshis.

Jodha should definitely NOT be shown as pregnant . Once he realizes the futility of his brutality he will realize why Jodha did not want him to go to war .Here also I have no high hopes with how the 'realization' will be shown . Really really disappointed with the progress of the serial .

Charu .

Thanks Charu and totally agree with you.. Just came online and first think i read is JO going to be Pregnant. OH my, I was shocked..

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Samanika,

Missed you on blog last few days 😊

I want to say something generic here. This is not only in response to what you have said but what I have been reading across many posts from a cross-section of women:

• Jalal can be himself with Jodha.
• Jalal and Jodha are one only. So hating / punishing / being angry with Jodha is same as hating /
• punishing / being angry with himself.
• Jalal is angry only with Jodha because he loves only her / is closest to her

...And so on.

All these statements make a sweeping generalization - we can be mean, cruel, aggressive, hurtful with the ones we really love and are emotionally closest to. That we are angry only with those we love. This may be true in many cases.

But question is should this be true? The more we love a person, the more we should respect that person and treat them gently. We should not be the cause of pain to the one we love.

I can vouchsafe for Jodha - she would never knowingly hurt anyone she loves or even anyone Jalal loves. I expected Jalal too to burn in the fire of guilt himself but not let the flames singe Jodha. I have read many say that he also felt guilty. This may be true. But it was not shown directly and /or clearly. If he felt guilty for sleeping with Jodha, he should have stopped sleeping with her for sometime till the guilt was gone.

Like I have said so many times, emotional withdrawal is something I can identify with. I would even have understood if he had been "angry" with Jodha and fought / argued with her. Rather he "hit below the belt" by accusing the mother of killing her kids.

I have been thinking why he hit out at Jodha after Hussein died but not after Hasan had died. Also, why is it that Jalal has been insulting to Jodha but not said a word to Ruqaiyya.

I feel it may be because Ruqaiyya started accusing Jodha soon after Hussein's death. Ruqaiyya had not said anything openly to Jodha when Hasan died. So it was easier for Jalal to support Jodha then.

Ruqaiyya soon started brain washing Jalal subtly. She first accused him of partiality and injustice in taking away Hussein from her and giving to Jodha. Though Jalal did give away Hussein to Jodha, the moment Hussein died and Rquaiyya started her lamentations, he started feeling guilty about being the one who had given the child to Jodha against Ruqaiyya's wishes and now apparently Ruqaiyya was proved right. This was Jalal's first guilt.

Then Ruqaiyya kept asking Qs as to what Jodha was doing the night before and where she was, instead of being with Hussein. She accused Jodha of being negligent in her duty towards Hussein and accused Jalal of trusting the wrong person. Ruqaiyya had earlier privately

accused Jodha of being a careless mother who had caused the death of Hasan. When Hussein died, Jalal was in a vulnerable state. He was emotionally very low. At that point in time, we saw he had turned into a statue while listening to Ruqaiyya. At that point, all that Ruqaiyya said seeped into his unconsciousness and lodged there.

He became convinced that Ruqaiyya was correct - Jodha had been derelict in her duties towards the twins. Both times, the kids had died when they were with her. It was because he was convinced that Ruqaiyya was correct in her judgment about Jodha that he never said anything to Ruqaiyya. Rather he repeated what Ruqaiyya had said like a parrot. He accused Jodha in the language of Ruqaiyya. He treated Jodha in the manner of Ruqaiyya.

The Jalal who LOVED Jodha had stood by her when Hasan died because then he had not been influenced by anyone. This Jalal who accused Jodha was under the psychological influence of Ruqaiyya.

I think Ruqaiyya, from her long experience with Jalal, knows how to manipulate him subtly without his own knowledge. Ruqaiyya knows that Jalal is now emotionally separated from Jodha and under her influence now. Hence the permanent smirk of victory and pride on her face.

When Ruqaiyya had taken Hussein from Jodha, she had sworn revenge on Jodha for taking away Jalal. Today she felt her revenge had been exacted and she had won Jalal back from Jodha. What was more, she had been able to successfully strangle the DIL that Jodha had awoken in him. Ruqaiyya's victory tastes all the more sweet to her because Jalal has now turned against not only Jodha but also other Rajvanshis and set his eyes on defeating Mewar. Didn't we hear her say the Rajvanshis needed to be taught a lesson?

Btw, you have mentioned that Jodha set the ball rolling by giving away one child to Ruqaiyya.

I would say Jalal set the ball rolling by issuing a blank farman to someone like RUqaiyya who, he

should know, is highly unpredictable and indubitably selfish.

I mentioned in an earlier post that we view the world as we are at our core. Jodha, being a guileless soul, views everyone as being equally noble. She felt the pain of a childless woman, as her pregnancy revealed to her the joys of motherhood. So she reached out to Ruqaiyya. At that time, she never imagined that she would be cut off from that (given away) child, as both the women lived in the same haram.

We cannot blame Jodha's goodness for the sins of the selfish core of Ruqaiyya.

Radhika,

I wrote something on similar lines...See here..
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/114766865

Copy Pasting...


I did not see any justification or a escape route for Jalal, hence i am posting a detailed response.. No where i saw Jalal was seen blaming HIMSELF, the blame was laid on Jodha VERY EASILY...


What he said is as follows. >>>

1.

First he says to Jodha >> "Hum Aapko apne baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "
{
I want to know, why he asked this Question at the first place.?.
Wasn't he with Jodha that fateful night.?. Isn't he aware.?.
Is he expecting HER to be with with BOTH the Kids 24x7.?.
I mean, what is the reason of asking this question.?.
For me the reasons are quite obvious.
Bachne ki koi gunjaish nahi hai.
Clear blame is ON HER..
And, here he blames her FOR BOTH the KIDS..Not ONE of them...
He was speaking the Language of Ruqayya..!!!!!...
}


2.

He also said to himself ->> "Hum Apni Mohobbat ko Jimmedaar man Rahe the " ( "the" is PAST TENSE)'
{
Isn't this clear that he WAS holding the LOVE responsible, for the mishap IN THE PAST for a few moment, but he NOW NO LONGER holds it responsible in PRESENT moment...?...

^^^This statement of mine was PROVEN CORRECT by Jalal when he said the following words. Read the next sentence..>>
}


3.

Then Jalal said -> " Humne Aapko Husain ke pas jaane ke liye kaha tha na " ..
{
What is the meaning of this sentence above.?.^^^^
He was pointing towards Jodha, and saying as if she was careless and HE FORCED HER TO GO to Husain and she was HELL BENT at remaining with him..!!!!!
Did he say that, I was also with you Jodha Begum.?.
Did he say that I am also responsible for this mishap.?.
Did he say that i also did not FORCE you to GO to Husain.?.

As i said in my Post on Page-1, perhaps my TV Set does not shows me Jalal's POV.?.
Hence, I am not able to interpret this scene properly...

There was NOT a single dialogue where it appeared that he was holding himself responsible for this..He was speaking and asking questions after questions asking Jodha about her responsibilities and involvement...

Did he say that , you are not ALONE responsible , i was equally involved..??

}

It is not tough to see that Jalal held her responsible...He was her rock after the demise of Hasan, but after Husain's demise, the shock which he wrecked upon Jodha, i could not relate to Jalal... What type of Father he is.?. I asked earlier on Page-1, has ONLY he Lost the Kids.?.

Seriously, it was disgusting to hear a father asking such a Question to the Wife/Mother that > "Hum Aapko APNE baachon ki maut ke liye jimmedar manein ? "

Were they not Jodha's sons ALSO.?. How much JUSTIFIED it is to ask SUCH a question to the Mother .?. The very utterance of these Words was pathetic.

1. He gives cold behavior to Jodha by putting on the curtain, while she follows him to his Hojra in the rain.?.
2. What kind of guilt - > He refuses to accept her Pranams also.?.
3. What kind of EPIC LOVE and understanding he is showering upon her, by NOT talking to her.?.
4. Where is his wrath, when he can shout at Jodha but can NOT EVEN utter a word to Ruqayya.?.
5. Did he ask Ruqayya that, YOU were the ROOT CAUSE of all this. She wanted the Kid na.?.
6. And after all, Had Jalal not gifted those Farmans carelessly then, Ruqayya MAY NOT HAVE DRAGGED JALAL to the DEk.?.


He Failed as a Father... He Failed as an Emperor... He Failed as a Husband... Jalal Failed...

I can not relate to this type of behavior...He comes across as someone, who refused to accept his part in this debacle...I could hear the dialogues where he directly and indirectly laid the blame on her, but NOT ONCE he said something about himself or Ruqayya...

I said earlier that, If you are in Love then you need to become the support of your partner, NOT to leave her Alone..Tough times call for going beyond your capabilities to heal your beloved..They are not the times to show your anger, or unleash your burden of guilt on anyone else..""

^^^And here, Jalal is doing exactly the opposite...!!!!..


I do not accept this Kind of Guilt Cum Love, and i find it strange that this behavior found justifications as well...

I want to say, just look from a different perspective...If he wants to punish himself he should..If he is guilty then, DOES HE thinks Jodha won't be suffering from the same guilt.?.

How can he ask those "blaming" questions to Jodha for death of the children she gave birth to under circumstances, which are well known to all.
He has left her alone as if he is the ONLY one who is suffering from this PAIN..

Do all the spouses behave in such a manner under similar circumstances.?. This situation demanded STRONG support from Jalal and he Failed here..Is it not required to show his support to her in this time when she needed him the most.?.

Jodha came out in the rain to share her pain with him while he was in the rain, and the volley of questions which were lashed at her by him, are they justified by any means.?.

He was very well aware of the mental condition of Jodha after the demise of twins...He saw that HIS BACHPAN KA DOST was blaming her endlessly to "EATING UP HER OWN SONS" ,
And even in this DIRE situation he left her.?.

Don't people commit suicide in such circumstances.?. I am not supporting this practice, but only making a point.. Jalal's image in my mind comes as that of a short tempered person(Real Akbar was TOO MUCH short tempered, but he was so much restrained with his close relatives.)

Jalal failed in such a demanding situation, and behaved atrociously in such a circumstance, in times of crises...

Friends,

I would say that we should not go by the Zee's taglines. There was tagline of similar nature during Hasan and Husain's birth also.🤢

+

Is Zee going to skip the Salim Chisti moment + pilgrimages + Rang Mahal + Sikri building before showing Salim.?. If they do it, then i will be sure they want to destroy this story.. 🥱


Actually, Zee people are a confused lot. 😕

We should judge them episode by episode, and sometimes leave something for the next episode as even LOONG sequences in their episodes are sometimes dreams.😉


BTW,
Does it sound like i have written a riddle here, by repeatedly using same words..?..😕.😆.

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon

Thanks Charu and totally agree with you.. Just came online and first think i read is JO going to be Pregnant. OH my, I was shocked..

Originally posted by: JAfanCharu

Aiyooo 😲 😲 , yeh Creatives ne story line ka poora satya naash kar diya . Does that mean Jalal gets away with hurting her verbally and emotionally for the moments of shared intimacy and then when the same act results in her pregnancy his accusation will be forgotten ? Or will the Creatives show him crying his lungs out and Jodha showering her muafis on him .

Now how did u find this out, was it in a promo or spoiler ? I have no faith in either of them .

some one had posted this on forum Charu. I went on twitter , there was a Link to an article.

the new tagline says- Jodha aur Akbar ko milega Mughaliya Saltant ka waaris

http://www.ufhnews.com/television-303-a

Originally posted by: SindhuMenon

some one had posted this on forum Charu. I went on twitter , there was a Link to an article.

the new tagline says- Jodha aur Akbar ko milega Mughaliya Saltant ka waaris

http://www.ufhnews.com/television-303-a

They have made a mockery of the love story already. Now it will seem that he came back to her cause she is prganant. This is such crap. This is so irritating, they will skip all the prayers and the trip to sikri which they did I in order to get salim. And ruks will be around as always. I honestly don't know what to say.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Angie,

Welcome to the forum! 🤗

It's wonderfully refreshing to read the views of newbies and silent members who speak only on occasion. I loved both yours and Coolpree's posts. Both of you should post more often. 👏

@bold: May be you are right about this!

Actually, no one is perfect. Akbar's trajectory moved from ruthlessness to tolerance over many years, nay, decades. It is to his credit that he made the change, even if late in the day. To me Akbar is great not because he was born great but because in spite of his background, he managed to transform himself and actually evolved into a much better, nobler person. After Ashoka, if anyone is called Great, it is Akbar (in India).

We should accept Chittor happened. We should look at Chittor as a reference point in Akbar's trajectory as a king. If we trace Akbar's journey from Chittor to the time he preached peace to all (sulh-i-kul) then we can see he REALLY traveled a LONG distance.

Doubtless, MUZ was miffed with Akbar after Chittor. But we cannot say she didn't perform the duty of a wife. (Btw, this is interesting - Jodha is damned if she does her kartavya and damned if she does not!)

Did she leave Akbar after this? No. She remained with him and must have influenced him positively along with other philosophers and intellectuals into becoming a more tolerant man. She was with him till the end, even when Salim turned against him. So let's not bring MUZ into this discussion. 😊

Originally posted by: angie321

Thanks a lot😊 Usually I'm pressed for time and hence cannot post but that doesn't stop me from reading a few exceptionally good threads and that definitely includes yours.Everyone on this thread posts such beautiful and balanced views😊 But I have my holidays for a few days(thank god for that) and I'm here to post!

Yes Akbar was a great emperor who had his share of good and grey areas.But I like to look at him with open eyes and praise him for his greatness and be not so impressed by a few acts😊.