Birbal & JA Twins Entry, Ruq Downfall Sep 27 Updt Pg 60; DTNTPg15 - Page 11

Originally posted by: KDR81

Hi All,

just a quick peep in...haven't seen Promo though...

But , this WAS a VERY COMMON practice in Mughal Households...to give children to Childless begums for raising and keeping " the much needed Shaanti" within Harem...😉

😃

So, chill folks...agar ek baby de bhi diya to at least dono ke dono babies ke Premature death ka responsibility Jo ke upar nahi aayega...

Regards,

Kamal

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Kamal,

Thanks for posting! 😊

I know it was common for royal children to be raised by members of the extended family (and not just other childless begums). But here we have to consider Ruq's character.

She has no love lost for the child and is only craving for the MUZ title.

In yesterday's episode, this naked ambition was clearly visible. She could barely sit for a moment after Jalal called Jodha MUZ.

Later she was shown rocking an empty palna, knowing that it is inauspicious to do so. She would be quite happy if Jodha lost the babies. She probably feels that if she can't have the MUZ title, she won't let Jodha have it either.

She was seen discussing the MUZ title issue with another junior begum. She is hatching some plan to either do away with the babies or to wrest the title from Jodha.

We cannot trust Ruq. She can blame Jodha for the death of both the babies somehow. 🤢

Of course, there are 2 things we know definitely:

• Ruq can never win in the end.
• The babies will die.

But still, it's sickening to see Ruq asking for and getting a child just for the sake of a title.

Radhika, you and Abhay have made this thread into a treasure trove of philosophical pearls of wisdom. In addition Abhay has contributed his usual nuggets of history and many other members have embellished the discussions. Thank you very much.

Jalal is the only person who can tame the shrew Rukkaiyya . He should NOT allow the childhood friendship , "first wife" position, her audha of BEK , etc etc to affect his thinking while punishing her . So far we have seen a very patient and forgiving Jalal when it came to all of her devious behavior . Time has come for him to take action , especially in the MUZ audha matter , because it directly involves Jodha .

@Donjas, KDR81and Radhika...

This is what is my view also, that giving Royal Children was a custom...Though, this may appear very HARSH now, but this is the reality... You all have already explained this nicely...I won't add more... 😊

Though, coming to serial, Ruqs will NOT harm the Twins, but she can plan anything else.!.
Let's see what the CV's have in store...

Originally posted by: JAfanCharu

Jalal is the only person who can tame the shrew Rukkaiyya . He should NOT allow the childhood friendship , "first wife" position, her audha of BEK , etc etc to affect his thinking while punishing her . So far we have seen a very patient and forgiving Jalal when it came to all of her devious behavior . Time has come for him to take action , especially in the MUZ audha matter , because it directly involves Jodha .

Maybe most of Rukkaiyya's obnoxious behavior stems from deep rooted insecurities . However neither Jalal nor the queen mother have given her reason to feel insecure in anyway . All her mistakes have been ignored time and again . Her aunt Gulbadan Begum , cousin Salima Begum , have often shared their wisdom with her and chided her for her immature behavior , however Rukaiyya never valued their advise .The gracious Hamida Begum has good naturedly put with Rukkaiyya's brattiness , always lovingly remembering her as Jalal's child bride . So where is the question of insecurity . The king having several wives was common practice during those days .

Rukkaiyya lived in a bubble until Jalal fell in love with Jodha . Her vanity and narcissistic attitude are causing her immense jealously and inferiority . She never ever thought that Jalal would be attracted to anyone else besides herself . Jalal falling in love with Jodha vexed her no end . We all saw how she snuck up into Jalal's hojra and was shocked out of her wits on seeing Jodha and him together . We also saw her desperate and despicable attempts to separate them citing a fake pregnancy .Well ,------------ too bad for her . Now Jodha being pregnant is driving Rukkaiyya crazy . Not because she cannot become a mother , but cause she will lose the title that is associated with mothering the first Mughal heir --------- MARIAM-UZ-ZAMANI . So desperate is she to hold on to the title that she will stoop to any level to achieve it .

Is it love towards Jalal that Rukkaiyya feels ? NO ---------- it is only possessiveness that is being mistaken for love . It is not encouraging her to be a better human .She ONLY loves the power and authority of being his chief consort . Does she have it in her to be a good mother ? SADLY ----------- NO . Judging from her interaction with Rahim and her general disposition , motherhood is not for Rukkaiyya .

Did anyone notice the brief look that Jalal gave Rukkaiyya yesterday , when she walked away citing fatigue as the reason, after she heard Jalal heaping praises on Jodha ? I have yet to see todays episode , so cannot comment on his follow up action .

Will continue with this post --------------------- .

Completely agree...To me the GREATEST Problem is Ruqayya's intention...She is asking for KIDS NOT because of her lonliness, but her obsession with the AUHDA of MUZ...And, hence she is doing all these tricks...

Though, Jalal has given her the "Vachan" that he will fulfill ONE WISH of hers, as per that farman, but it is NOT RIGHT on Ruqs part to ask Jalal...Bcoz the Kids belong BOTH to J-J not only to Jalal..But, i think after seeing Jalal getting COUNTERED, Jodha will support him...

Though, bringing up kids by other "QUEENS" is not odd, but in this case the METHOD behind this act and the Obsession for MUZ Auhda and also her jealousy with Jodha has spoiled the party...I mean, the setting and intentions are NOT NOBLE...

Originally posted by: history_geek

Completely agree...To me the GREATEST Problem is Ruqayya's intention...She is asking for KIDS NOT because of her lonliness, but her obsession with the AUHDA of MUZ...And, hence she is doing all these tricks...

Though, Jalal has given her the "Vachan" that he will fulfill ONE WISH of hers, as per that farman, but it is NOT RIGHT on Ruqs part to ask Jalal...Bcoz the Kids belong BOTH to J-J not only to Jalal..But, i think after seeing Jalal getting COUNTERED, Jodha will support him...

Though, bringing up kids by other "QUEENS" is not odd, but in this case the METHOD behind this act and the Obsession for MUZ Auhda and also her jealousy with Jodha has spoiled the party...I mean, the setting and intentions are NOT NOBLE...

Radhika ,I am gonna start with posting what I just did on another thread

Originally posted by: Donjas

Radhika, you and Abhay have made this thread into a treasure trove of philosophical pearls of wisdom. In addition Abhay has contributed his usual nuggets of history and many other members have embellished the discussions. Thank you very much.

I would like to make my views known about child sharing, child giving with specific reference to Khurram or Shah Jahan. As everyone knows Ruqiya reared Khurram, and not his biological mother Taj Bibi, reason for this is unknown, maybe she had some physical or mental ailment or there was some other reason.

Whatever the reason, that decision had momentous consequences. At the end of Jahangir's reign, Nur Jahan was very powerful, she wanted her son in law Shahryar on the throne. She had years to prepare and had built a vast network of sympathizers.

And yet Khurram defeated her and Shahryar. In this victory the role of Ruqaiya can never be underestimated. Ruqaiya, a true blood Mughal princess, had connections of her own, she too knew how to pull strings to get what she wanted.

And she loved Khurram like her own child. It is quite possible that those connections saved Khurram in the battle for succession. Maybe the real Ruqs was evil in her own way and manipulative, but her love for Khurram was pure.

And Khurram never stopped loving his biological mother, he was returned to her at age 12. There is a passage in the Tuzk I Jahangiri, where Jahangir expresses his deepest condolences to Khurram for the pain he must be going through at the death of his mother Taj Bibi.

So, child sharing, child rearing not only maintained peace in the harem, it could give a child new mothers who would fiercely protect their adopted children.

History based discussions are not allowed except they can b carried out here ..::Doubts & Discussions about Historical facts::..

Any further historical discussion and this post will be closed

JA DT

Originally posted by: chitterati

Radhika ,I am gonna start with posting what I just did on another thread

I may be In minority, but I felt more bad for Ruk than I did for Jo JA. As real tragedy of life is not not finding happiness, but not even knowing what makes you happy.

Jo JA are the kind of people who can find happiness in each other and by making sure they do what they can for others. Ruk is immature and has already see a lot in life, loss of parents, no sibling, a friend cum husband who is now sharing his life with another. Not to say that her evil, twisted mind is justifiable - but atleast in this case, I feel sorry that she does not even comprehend what it is to be a mother,and how gratifying that special bond is, largely because of absense of a mother (figure) herself in her life. Jalal atleast had MA (who did care deeply for him). Ruk was devoid of that affection all her life. Her audha, her power , now that is something she has known and experienced.

How can we call someone wrong when they choose what has sustained them for so long over Something they don't even know exists.

Ruk has always survived on power , being Jalal's favourite - power. Being BEK - power, being MUZ - power. But what is power to her? even if she is not MUZ, she will still be well taken care of, as for the riches, she is extremely rich in her own right and does not depend on Jalal financially atleast. The answer was evident in last weeks episode and it manifested in Ruks dream. Ruk dreamt of Jo JA being the centre of attention, and then a bandi coming and pushing Ruk while passing by. This was Ruks worst fear - of being sidelined, and being a redundant witness to someone else's happiness. If you look at it, we spend our lives being centre of attention- while growing up from our parents, when married - our spouse's,asa young parent -your children's. For Ruk. She has never been In that cherished place for too long, her parents died, her husband has moved away, she can never be a mother.

I don't think Ruks quest is for being BEK, or being MUZ - it is for being on that pedestal of respect, happiness and all that comes with it.

i can't agree here this point that ruq didn't get parent's affection frm her family losing her biological parents in her childhood. Rather she has gud guideliners like HB,gulbadan,sb. They always loves her to think she has lost her parents but alas ruq never tries to learn anything gud frm them rather loves to live in her gaga land,enjoyed to b tyrant with bandies n jalal's another begum infact she herself always keeps distance frm her family's ladies being envious here i would like to say ruq is lucky that she hasn't been rared by maham then she has already been 2nd maham or 2nd mahaC(she might try to murder jalal n want to sit on the throne of MS). Jalal has willing power to change himself hence jodha's influence has been converted him as totally a new person i.e. Jallad to Jalal but this changing matter is totally not belonging in ruq's instinct. Ruq has no sense to get her sins. She is now beyond of brat. N directly or indirectly behind the reasons this spoilt ruq r her own malice abt her family ladies,for keeping herself confined frm others being envious n exaggeration pampering of jalal's on her again n again guilts. U have said its not her greed on muz title then i can remind u when she 1st time became pregnant that time jodha's had no single place in jalal's life n ruq was happy not for gonna to get the taste of motherhood rather for becoming muz as it would make her the most powerful lady of MS. Moreover, Ruq is always behind power,audha n i can gurantee if jalal loves thousand ladies n gives her only title n power ruq won't say a word n remain happliy in her gaga land b/w power is her real happiness,power is her dream,power is her lover.