Jalal is in Amer - but things are a bit over the top! - Page 11

Originally posted by: history_geek

^^^^
Superb Posts.

I would add my two cents here.
It is based on what understanding i have developed of JJ emotions by now.

It may appear i am venting😉but am not. I could not pick a better post by you and sun here.
So, choosing these 4 posts above to launch myself.

So, here i go..😆..>>>>>

Just based on 1 scene before her father in 1 single episode yesterday, i would NOT consider that she is heartless. Her heart beats as much for Jalal as his heart beats for Jodha.

Only Her mind is in a state of denial NOT her HEART and NOT her SOUL. If Denial has the power of creating the illusion of non-existence(in this case non-existence of Love.), then it also brings forth the pilfering breaths of one's soul (don't we all experience this.?. Is it so tough to decipher and feel it, that we all want a VERBAL and CLEAR demonstration of EACH and Everything ?. ). Jodha has experienced this and EVEN yesterday she experienced - Why she feels he is everywhere.?. Why she has a pre-monition if some evil befalls him .?. What is that strange connection which binds both of them.?. Does this show she is heartless?. Does this shows she is feelingless.?. Isn't there some Eternal connect.?.

You know what friends.. When someone means nothing to you, there is surely NOTHING at all. But, when even that person's activities / mood start affecting you it means a LOT. (Remember when Jalal announced to spend that night with Ruqs when he was angry with Jodha, what was her state that night.?.)

Yes, I can see the pain Jalal has. I can see What has Love made him. Yes, i can see Here we have the same Shehanshah who believed in winning by sheer brute of force, but what has happened to him NOW. Yes, i can see what happens when someone falls in LOVE. Yes, i know deep inside his heart cries. Yes, i know this WAS the same MAN who accepted everything BUT Mohabbat and Dil. Does the story ends here.?. No, it has started. Come to the other side of the coin.

Here, we have Jodha who accepted her LOVE for him before those 11 minutes of confrontation / accusation / conversation (whatever anyone calls it) shattered her that night. What do we do when so many people hurt us(even her own family for Jodha) and there is that one person whom we want to trust/open up but we can't.?. There is NO Sujamal fiasco in sight NOW. (So, don't make mountain of a mole hill by including it.) Presently, it's all about Trust for No Love happens without trust. Love and doubt have never been on speaking terms, and never will be. Our heart is a strange container, i tell you. Love and hatred can exist side by side in it, but NOT Love and Doubt. Love is weak when there is more doubt than there is trust, but love is most strong when you learn to trust even with all the doubts. She had given the PROOF and i say the MOST CONCRETE PROOF about her LOYALTY during that Vishpaan. But, wait, that was NOT Love as we say. Gratitude / Responsibility is not love. Don't mix the two because they are not the same. It is difficult to know at what moment love begins; BUT it is MORE difficult to ACCEPT that it has begun. This is all about Jodha's journey. She was the one who made Jalal know that he has a heart and she is the ONE who needs him the MOST at this crucial junction of her life. Just by what happened yesterday, ONE and ALL(i mean many) failed to notice her journey, and arrived on all sort of conclusions. I tried to be as Long sighted as possible and tried to sum up her feelings the moment she starting feeling for him, and i differ from anyone who feels Jodha is STILL away from Jalal or they BOTH are still 2 different entities. Her intellect may be confused(i mentioned her state of denial above), but her emotions HAVE never lied to her.

Sometimes we just feel everything and nothing all at once. Sometimes we'll find ourselves smiling while missing something at the same time. At times we can absolutely love a person, BUT all the while wanting😉 to hate him. Life and Feelings are So strange. She is in Love but not able to accept it. 😉 Rumi Sahab has written -> " Love comes to a person at own accord, and the yearning for it cannot be learned in any school. Your task is not to seek JUST love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. "

I won't make any strong conclusion just on basis on 1 single action. (which also can be interpreted positively ). I am sure we are going to get our answers SOON.

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

Mansi, thanks for making this brave attempt to understand Jodha's psychology. Yesterday's episode was extremely complicated to understand and analyze from this prespective.

Jodha did come across as heartless and insensitive in the episode. The two things that bothered me the most were

1. Her reaction or lack of a reaction when she heard about Abul Mali's attack on Jalal.

2. Her insensitivity towards his physical injuries. This was something new.

I am assuming that this was not a goof up by the CVs/ director and they won't take a 180 degree turn in the next episode.

You analyzed Jodha's mental state from a fresh angle and made a wonderful attempt to look beyond the outer coat of insensitivity. We are seeing not Jodha but an empty shell...she is reacting like an automaton...not registering what is obvious...his injuries. Beautiful analysis.

We as viewers were not expecting what we got from Jodha today. I felt the same way and the post I made on Ela's thread just after reading the update reflects that. My first reaction was...this is too much and it is difficult understand or justify her behavior today. Like most others, i too felt very bad for a wounded Jalal. But after a while, I asked myself ...what about a wounded Jodha?

While we are looking for a predictable symptomatology as a result of what happened with her on her last night in Agra, that may not be the case in all situations. People's reactions to a situation can be very different...the same person may react to similar situations differently. It is not uncommon to see people show a spectrum of emotions after going through an extremely traumatic experience. Even in real life while majority of people go through what we call as ' simple grief' after a major loss, there are a few people who go though ' complicated grief'...where the symptoms are not typical. There are times when people blame a dead loved one they are grieving for for causing misery to them...some people keep on living their lives as if nothing happened and break down after several months... people around them may see it as a selfish response...but is it really? Or is it just a coping mechanism. I choose to use the word grief as Jodha did lose something very precious to her that day...her dignity. He humiliated her in the worst imaginable manner. In the 21st century, a psychiatrist would have possibly diagnosed her with post traumatic stress disorder by now. What if this is some kind of a defense mechanism kicking in leading to this strange and unpredictable behavior from her? One moment she is worried sick for his safety and the next moment she appears to be insensitive...puzzling... Why?...Because we were expecting a typical affective, perceptional, emotional and behavioral response from her...but this incident has shaken her to the core. Has her brain has gone into a temporary 'avoidance and emotional numbing' mode thus explaining her reactions. We should not fall into the trap. ( me included) of judging her based on one episode...and we should also try to remember that this behavior is not just a reaction to what happened on that one night but it is a result of repeated abuse( yes abuse) she suffered throughout the year in Agra. For those who want to argue...he showered her with love...or she was abusive in her own way...well, even then, it still does not change the fact that she went through extreme and repeated emotional trauma in Agra. So before we label her as insensitive, let us see what they have in store for us in the next few episodes...Personally, I would like to see consistency more than anything else.

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

Mansi, thanks for making this brave attempt to understand Jodha's psychology. Yesterday's episode was extremely complicated to understand and analyze from this prespective.

Jodha did come across as heartless and insensitive in the episode. The two things that bothered me the most were

I was bothered by only one and still am

1. Her reaction or lack of a reaction when she heard about Abul Mali's attack on Jalal.

This was all that bothered me. But I will be happy, hale and hearty if she barges in on Jalal and lecture him on how he has inconvienienced her, her bapusa and Massa by being so less careful about Abul Mali and not investigating the matter properly!

2. Her insensitivity towards his physical injuries. This was something new.

Now here I am giving a benefit of doubt that she did not realise he was so badly injured under that huge shawl

I am assuming that this was not a goof up by the CVs/ director and they won't take a 180 degree turn in the next episode.

You analyzed Jodha's mental state from a fresh angle and made a wonderful attempt to look beyond the outer coat of insensitivity. We are seeing not Jodha but an empty shell...she is reacting like an automaton...not registering what is obvious...his injuries. Beautiful analysis.

We as viewers were not expecting what we got from Jodha today. I felt the same way and the post I made on Ela's thread just after reading the update reflects that. My first reaction was...this is too much and it is difficult understand or justify her behavior today. Like most others, i too felt very bad for a wounded Jalal. But after a while, I asked myself ...what about a wounded Jodha?

Jalal did feel bad for wounded Jodha. He may be did not do it earlier, but today he is. And have always crucified Jalal for his insensitivities. I'll do the same to Jo

While we are looking for a predictable symptomatology as a result of what happened with her on her last night in Agra, that may not be the case in all situations. People's reactions to a situation can be very different...the same person may react to similar situations differently. It is not uncommon to see people show a spectrum of emotions after going through an extremely traumatic experience. Even in real life while majority of people go through what we call as ' simple grief' after a major loss, there are a few people who go though ' complicated grief'...where the symptoms are not typical. There are times when people blame a dead loved one they are grieving for for causing misery to them...some people keep on living their lives as if nothing happened and break down after several months... people around them may see it as a selfish response...but is it really? Or is it just a coping mechanism. I choose to use the word grief as Jodha did lose something very precious to her that day...her dignity. He humiliated her in the worst imaginable manner. In the 21st century, a psychiatrist would have possibly diagnosed her with post traumatic stress disorder by now. What if this is some kind of a defense mechanism kicking in leading to this strange and unpredictable behavior from her? One moment she is worried sick for his safety and the next moment she appears to be insensitive...puzzling... Why?...Because we were expecting a typical affective, perceptional, emotional and behavioral response from her...but this incident has shaken her to the core. Has her brain has gone into a temporary 'avoidance and emotional numbing' mode thus explaining her reactions. We should not fall into the trap. ( me included) of judging her based on one episode...and we should also try to remember that this behavior is not just a reaction to what happened on that one night but it is a result of repeated abuse( yes abuse) she suffered throughout the year in Agra. For those who want to argue...he showered her with love...or she was abusive in her own way...well, even then, it still does not change the fact that she went through extreme and repeated emotional trauma in Agra. So before we label her as insensitive, let us see what they have in store for us in the next few episodes...Personally, I would like to see consistency more than anything else.

hmm... theek hai dekhtein hain. But Cleo, how about ordirary mortals like me who have little idea of such behavioural patterns... I hope they keep it story simple silly(KISS)... I watch it to forget my worries, not to get more worried😆

Originally posted by: skanda12

Oh my God! Abhay, what have you eaten today that you are in such full form? This is no less than divine chamatkaar, this post! How can I even reply something like this that is so thorough! You robbed me of my ability to reply! And after reading your post how can anybody ever again try to judge Jodha by a single action when she was with her father. How mean and petty it now sounds to be so judgemental on her!

Abhay your post is mind-transforming! Honestly it is! Are you a PhD in psychology as well as history? I think you are!

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thnx Mansi.

I was just trying to sum up her journey. Yesterday's episode, no doubt lacked something, but i wanted to convey, we can not take strong conclusions on basis of a single episode.

BTW, I am far far far away from history and psychology, as far as my (BG)studies are concerned. I lately started reading some theories on psychology when i tried to understand Akbar and Dyslexia. That's set. I really feel this subject helps in understanding a person better. Cleo knows this better. Her posts reflect this. :))

Originally posted by: history_geek

^^^^
Superb Posts.

I would add my two cents here.
It is based on what understanding i have developed of JJ emotions by now.

It may appear i am venting😉but am not. I could not pick a better post by you and sun here.
So, choosing these 4 posts above to launch myself.

So, here i go..😆..>>>>>

Just based on 1 scene before her father in 1 single episode yesterday, i would NOT consider that she is heartless. Her heart beats as much for Jalal as his heart beats for Jodha.

Only Her mind is in a state of denial NOT her HEART and NOT her SOUL. If Denial has the power of creating the illusion of non-existence(in this case non-existence of Love.), then it also brings forth the pilfering breaths of one's soul (don't we all experience this.?. Is it so tough to decipher and feel it, that we all want a VERBAL and CLEAR demonstration of EACH and Everything ?. ). Jodha has experienced this and EVEN yesterday she experienced - Why she feels he is everywhere.?. Why she has a pre-monition if some evil befalls him .?. What is that strange connection which binds both of them.?. Does this show she is heartless?. Does this shows she is feelingless.?. Isn't there some Eternal connect.?.

You know what friends.. When someone means nothing to you, there is surely NOTHING at all. But, when even that person's activities / mood start affecting you it means a LOT. (Remember when Jalal announced to spend that night with Ruqs when he was angry with Jodha, what was her state that night.?.)

Yes, I can see the pain Jalal has. I can see What has Love made him. Yes, i can see Here we have the same Shehanshah who believed in winning by sheer brute of force, but what has happened to him NOW. Yes, i can see what happens when someone falls in LOVE. Yes, i know deep inside his heart cries. Yes, i know this WAS the same MAN who accepted everything BUT Mohabbat and Dil. Does the story ends here.?. No, it has started. Come to the other side of the coin.

Here, we have Jodha who accepted her LOVE for him before those 11 minutes of confrontation / accusation / conversation (whatever anyone calls it) shattered her that night. What do we do when so many people hurt us(even her own family for Jodha) and there is that one person whom we want to trust/open up but we can't.?. There is NO Sujamal fiasco in sight NOW. (So, don't make mountain of a mole hill by including it.) Presently, it's all about Trust for No Love happens without trust. Love and doubt have never been on speaking terms, and never will be. Our heart is a strange container, i tell you. Love and hatred can exist side by side in it, but NOT Love and Doubt. Love is weak when there is more doubt than there is trust, but love is most strong when you learn to trust even with all the doubts. She had given the PROOF and i say the MOST CONCRETE PROOF about her LOYALTY during that Vishpaan. But, wait, that was NOT Love as we say. Gratitude / Responsibility is not love. Don't mix the two because they are not the same. It is difficult to know at what moment love begins; BUT it is MORE difficult to ACCEPT that it has begun. This is all about Jodha's journey. She was the one who made Jalal know that he has a heart and she is the ONE who needs him the MOST at this crucial junction of her life. Just by what happened yesterday, ONE and ALL(i mean many) failed to notice her journey, and arrived on all sort of conclusions. I tried to be as Long sighted as possible and tried to sum up her feelings the moment she starting feeling for him, and i differ from anyone who feels Jodha is STILL away from Jalal or they BOTH are still 2 different entities. Her intellect may be confused(i mentioned her state of denial above), but her emotions HAVE never lied to her.

Sometimes we just feel everything and nothing all at once. Sometimes we'll find ourselves smiling while missing something at the same time. At times we can absolutely love a person, BUT all the while wanting😉 to hate him. Life and Feelings are So strange. She is in Love but not able to accept it. 😉 Rumi Sahab has written -> " Love comes to a person at own accord, and the yearning for it cannot be learned in any school. Your task is not to seek JUST love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. "

I won't make any strong conclusion just on basis on 1 single action. (which also can be interpreted positively ). I am sure we are going to get our answers SOON.

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais

What took me by utter shock last night was Jodha's lack of empathy for her own husband!!!

It was shocking, and words cannot be minced- Cruel.

In contrast, Jalal's Puppy Act annoyed me as much. He should leave her & return to Agra, fall silent as Hamida's angry & by turns, tearful protests about the whereabouts of Jodha Devi , install that portrait back in his apartments & rule like the Emperor he is. 😡

There was total lack of love & sympathy- All that was visible to me was a woman obsessed with her room arrangements & intent on barraging her parents ears for their gumption to leave her very injured husband in her rooms.

I've yet to see such arrogant & cruel self-absorption that too from One who prides herself on her upbringing & compassion. 😡

This show is self-destructing & it is such a pity to watch it now esp when we remember the old episodes which were beautiful & so subtle. 😭