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brownprincess25

@brownprincess25

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Posted: 11 years ago

#11

I would not be surprised

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#12

I would like to add these points

In those times India included almost entire indian subcontinent like india, pakistan, bangladesh, nepal, tibet, burma, afghanistan(till iran called as persia in those times), sri lanka, bhutan, maldives, even parts of now china called Xingjang(part of Kashmir in those times)

Even malasiya, indonesia, singapore were part of indian subcontinent during olden times. Even Iran(persia) was part of indian continent once upon a time.

Ashoka ruled even afghanistan during his times

So in those times anyone born in all these countries were indians only. Its after British came they split into different countries etc. So Akbar was born in part of india only not outsider. Yes his ancestors came from mongolia(which lies between USSR and china) and later turkey.

But if we think like that almost 50% of current Indian citizens their ancestors not indians born in other parts of indian sbcontninent or other places.

Mughals though from outside and invaders never came to loot, they wanted to settle in india and live here because they like india customs and india culture. Babar clearly mentions that he was fed up of treachery of his people and constant wars and fights and wanted to come to india and settle his family here so that they are safe and free from danger. (It was more like a citizen going to US and wanting its citizenship because of benefits given to US citizens like unemployment wages, pension, free medical facilities, good job opportunities and good salary etc). They did not loot and take all wealth to other countries like Ghazni, Timur or British. That was not their intention. So Akbar and anyone born to mughals after that was basically indian citizen born in india(the undivided india)

Everyone has good and bad points. Mughals also had few negative characters but they also had a good ones that outdid bad points that cannot be denied like they did not force all non muslims to convert(exceptions like aurangzeb) in india, built gardens and good architecture pieces that earn revenue to govt even today(like taj, agra fort, delhi fort etc) in form of tourism, brought modern warfare to india, new cuisines and plants to india etc. They also united a large part of indian subcontinent into a single empire bringin lasting peace and safety for crores of citizens for almost 200 years from squabbling princely states.

Here is my write up on that closed thread

Shabaz Khan told correctly that historicals are over dramatized and fictionalized to gain TRP

Regarding Akbar and Maharana Pratap

Akbar wanted to rule entire indian sub continent that was his dream

Secondly Mewar was an important route for trade and travel to Afghanistan which was under him so he wanted that kingdom

Pratap wanted to rule independently not under Akbar nothing wrong with that too. But Pratap failed in one thing making entire rajputhana and india one. Akbar succeded in that by marriage alliances and giving high positions to non mughals and by treating them as his equals and not forcing people to convert basically treating all humans as one irrespective of religion, caste and creed etc. Otherwise look at aurangzeb regime he was more powerful and had bigger kingdom than akbar, jehangir, shah jahan but no one was loyal to him not even mughals because of his policies.

So both are right in their own ways. What Akbar did at Chittor killing 30000 civillans can never be justified?

Akbar participated in wars and fought them with his army till he was 30-35 years old or so till the Gujarat war. After that usually he sent his generals or his sons to lead the war and went rarely. He stopped going to the wars as frequently after he got a sevre hit in a battle and started getting seizures. This is recorded in akbarnama although as some divine happening.

Akbar had almost 180 rebellions in his kingdom in his life time and many more wars to win new land. Hence he could not go to all the wars/rebellions himself. So nothing wrong with that. He went to war in his 50s also when Salim marched to agra so that means he went to wars at later stage of life too. We cannot deduce he was scared of war or facing MP.

But why was Akbar liked by his citizens if he was an non indian and non hindu? That is because of his administration skills and liberal views(though i agree sometimes he ordered hindu temples demolished) like banning sati, banning child marriage, widow remarriage, giving opportunity to deserving hindus in court etc which previous muslim kings had not done or done rarely. And that too under the dreadful circumsatnces he was in held hostage by his own uncles, he was dyslexic(a mental disorder hence he was illiterate), father died at 13 years, everyone baying to kill him at first opportunity. In such circumstances he has not got scared not given up in fear and run off but stood his ground and achieved whatever he could that is his biggest achievements despite all his faults.

All mughals were not non indians Jehangir was born in india and his mother was indian so going by modern rules he was not only an 100% indian citizen(like if a child born in Us becomes US citizen irrespective of parents status) he was also 50% hindu by birth. Similarly Shah Jahan was 75% hindu and indian citizen not outsider born here. And so were many mughal rulers. Also majority did not beileve in converting non muslims forcefully to their religion else they ruled 200 years so they could easily convert majority indians if they wished like how middle east etc was converted by force.

Why do indians still consider them outsider is because they were migrants from other lands(Turkey), they used persian language to carry out court business instead of local language, they appointed majority non indians(persians, turks) in court and some rulers followed discrimination to majority religion and people hindus(like aurangzeb). So indian people could never accept them as their own people unlike some other muslim rulers especially from south india especially who used local dialect in court etc.

Regarding Jodha or Mariam uz zamani i think this romance angle is being over emphasized and Akbar was too busy in expanding his kingdom till he was 30-35 years and rarely at home to do any romance. And he had too many ladies in his harem to be loyal to a single woman.

Edited by myviewprem - 11 years ago

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brownprincess25

@brownprincess25

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Posted: 11 years ago

#13

The British came, but the partition was a whole different story which I shall not get into...a person who is revered in India...

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ghalibmirza

@ghalibmirza

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#14

very well written myviewprem! i do agree with your last point that the love story we are getting is mainly fictional as it is not documented anywhere whom he loved and whom he slept with and very rightly said that how can a man with 1000plus women be loyal to a single woman..but there must have been something between the two which has been made the basis of such a fictional story..at least something!

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oiiinano

@oiiinano

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#15

Kadak...reply jodah...well done...n u nailed it very nicely buddy...no one in d entire india...as won against our shensha...AKBAR...

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: mandyg
very well written myviewprem! i do agree with your last point that the love story we are getting is mainly fictional as it is not documented anywhere whom he loved and whom he slept with and very rightly said that how can a man with 1000plus women be loyal to a single woman..but there must have been something between the two which has been made the basis of such a fictional story..at least something!

Thanks

I never said he did not like Jodha but not the way people believe that she was his only love and all his children were from her which is completely false

akbar liked some of his wives ruqaiah, salima, jodha, daulat shah etc but he was not a die hard romantic like salim, shah jahan etc and salim was the only son as per records born to jodha and akbar

there was something between the two and that's why salim was born and she gained prominence and respect after salim's birth. But she was not his only favourite wife or the favourite wife/woman as many believe in akbar's life. Fatkepur sikri was itself built in 1569 after salim's birth and not for jodha as shown in serial because akbar wanted to stay close to salim chisti

Quote

fatma201

@fatma201

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#17

Originally posted by: myviewprem

I would like to add these points

In those times India included almost entire indian subcontinent like india, pakistan, bangladesh, nepal, tibet, burma, afghanistan(till iran called as persia in those times),sri lanka, bhutan, maldives, even parts of now china called Xingjang(part of Kashmir in those times)

Even malasiya, indonesia, singapore were part of indian subcontinent during olden times. Even Iran(persia) was part of indian continent once upon a time. 



Ashoka ruled even afghanistan during his times



So in those times anyone born in all these countries were indians only. Its after British came they split into different countries etc. So Akbar was born in part of india only not outsider. Yes his ancestors came from mongolia(which lies between USSR and china) and later turkey. 



But if we think like that almost 50% of current Indian citizens their ancestors not indians born in other parts of indian sbcontninent or other places.

Mughals though from outside and invaders never came to loot, they wanted to settle in india and live here because they like india customs and india culture. Babar clearly mentions that he was fed up of treachery of his people and constant wars and fights and wanted to come to india and settle his family here so that they are safe and free from danger.(It was more like a citizen going to US and wanting its citizenship because of benefits given toUS citizens like unemployment wages, pension, free medical facilities, good job opportunities and good salary etc). They did not loot and take all wealth to other countries like Ghazni, Timuror British. That was not their intention. So Akbar and anyone born to mughals after that was basically indian citizen born in india(the undivided india)

Everyone has good and bad points. Mughals also had few negative characters but they also had agood ones that outdid bad points that cannot be denied like they did not force all non muslims to convert(exceptions like aurangzeb) in india, built gardens and goodarchitecture pieces that earnrevenue to govt even today(like taj, agra fort, delhi fortetc) in form of tourism, brought modern warfareto india,new cuisines and plants to india etc. They also united a large part of indian subcontinent into a single empire bringin lasting peace and safety for crores of citizens for almost 200 years from squabbling princely states. 

Here is my write up on that closed thread

Shabaz Khan told correctly that historicals are over dramatized and fictionalized to gain TRP 


Regarding Akbar and Maharana Pratap



Akbar wanted to rule entire indian sub continent that was his dream 



Secondly Mewar was an important route for trade and travel to Afghanistan which was under him so he wanted that kingdom 



Pratap wanted to rule independently not under Akbar nothing wrong with that too. But Pratap failed in one thing making entire rajputhana and india one.Akbar succeded in that by marriage alliances and giving high positions to non mughals and by treating them as his equals and not forcing people to convert basically treating all humans as one irrespective of religion, caste and creed etc. Otherwise look at aurangzeb regime he was more powerful and had bigger kingdom than akbar, jehangir, shah jahan but no one was loyal to him not even mughals because of his policies. 



So both are right in their own ways. What Akbar did at Chittor killing 30000 civillans can never be justified? 



Akbar participated in wars and fought them with his army till he was 30-35 years old or so till the Gujarat war. After that usually he sent his generals or his sons to lead the war and went rarely. He stopped going to the wars as frequently after he got a sevre hit in abattle and started getting seizures. This is recorded in akbarnama although as some divine happening. 



Akbar had almost 180 rebellions in his kingdom in his life time and many more wars to win new land. Hence he could not go to all the wars/rebellions himself. So nothing wrong with that. He went to war in his 50s also when Salim marched to agra so that means he went to wars at later stage of life too. We cannot deduce he was scared of war or facing MP.



But why was Akbar liked by his citizens if he was annon indianand non hindu? That is because of his administration skills and liberal views(though i agree sometimes he ordered hindu temples demolished) like banning sati, banning child marriage, widow remarriage, giving opportunity to deserving hindus in court etc which previous muslimkings had not done or done rarely. And that too under the dreadful circumsatnces he was in held hostage by his own uncles, hewas dyslexic(a mental disorder hence he was illiterate), father died at 13 years, everyone baying to kill him at first opportunity. In such circumstances he has not got scared not given up in fear and run off but stood his ground and achieved whatever he could that is his biggest achievements despite all his faults. 



All mughals were not non indians Jehangir was born in india and his mother was indian so going by modern rules he was not only an 100%indian citizen(like if a child born in Us becomes US citizen irrespective of parents status) he was also 50% hindu by birth. Similarly Shah Jahan was 75% hindu and indian citizen not outsider born here. And so were many mughal rulers. Also majority did not beileve in converting non muslims forcefully to their religion else they ruled 200 yearsso they could easily convert majority indians if they wished like how middle east etc was converted by force. 



Why do indians still consider them outsider is because they were migrants from other lands(Turkey), they used persian language to carryout court business instead of locallanguage,they appointed majority non indians(persians, turks) in court and some rulers followed discrimination to majority religion and people hindus(like aurangzeb). So indian people could never accept them as their own people unlike some other muslim rulers especially from south india especially who used local dialect in court etc. 



Regarding Jodha or Mariam uz zamani i think this romance angle is being over emphasized and Akbar was too busy in expanding his kingdom till he was 30-35 years and rarely at home to do any romance. And he had too many ladies in his harem to be loyal to a single woman.

Excellent points brought forward

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ghalibmirza

@ghalibmirza

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#18

Originally posted by: myviewprem

Thanks

I never said he did not like Jodha but not the way people believe that she was his only love and all his children were from her which is completely false

akbar liked some of his wives ruqaiah, salima, jodha, daulat shah etc but he was not a die hard romantic like salim, shah jahan etc and salim was the only son as per records born to jodha and akbar

there was something between the two and that's why salim was born and she gained prominence and respect after salim's birth. But she was not his only favourite wife or the favourite wife/woman as many believe in akbar's life. Fatkepur sikri was itself built in 1569 after salim's birth and not for jodha as shown in serial because akbar wanted to stay close to salim chisti

i completely agree with you! she was not the only one but one of them! just because she had salim gave her more prominence in his life than the others! but as per history akbar was not too happy with salim!

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Parijatrocks

@Peacefulmind

Trailblazer

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#19

i dont know whats went wrong with Proud India, i have seen her post in other forums she is quite good and genuine...

But once any one reaches JA forum they turn insane...as the forum of ours is quitr fun to be with...

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brownprincess25

@brownprincess25

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Posted: 11 years ago

#20

Originally posted by: Parijatrocks
i dont know whats went wrong with Proud India, i have seen her post in other forums she is quite good and genuine...
But once any one reaches JA forum they turn insane...as the forum of ours is quitr fun to be with...

why is that?