Transferring from this link:
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/108099692Hi Sandhya,
Replying to some points,as this pertains to
history NOT the serial. Would like to make the issues clear. :)
1.
Does it mean that many versions of a twisted fact make it the truth in the name of consistency? No. In History, only the irrefutable facts with proof are the absolute truth. The rest are individual perspectives, no matter how cleverly stated or deftly worded or constantly repeated.
I beg to differ here. Let me answer this. There seems to be a confusion. Many versions of a twisted fact NEVER lead to truth. And due to the same reason, i have myself posted many versions of Jahangirnama, to show what we all see as a NEATLY and not cleverly written fact was something else. I could have skipped posting all those various versions, but just wanted to share them and be sincere in my work, so took those snaps and posted them...There is a world of difference between FACTS and personal descriptions...The debate here is NOT about the serial. We are figuring out history, and if we question anything
at the drop of hat, then i can not continue replying. I am asking very humbly, just try to cross check various infos, whenever you read, any historical account.
I read "Jahangirnama" and personally found it strange at some points. And, when i could not bear it finally, i tried to dig the source of that account. And what was FOUND was BEYOND my belief, as i never thought that such a discrepancy could have taken place. An autobiography which WE ALL HAVE been reading since the last hundreds' of years, was compiled in such a Strange manner..!!.. It's nothing but a patchwork of contradicting manuscripts..Seems to be a gossip..!!.. I ask, why no one ever bothered about this, why everyone kept on citing jahangirnama as a proof as far as Akbar's Kids are considered.!. The authors like Eraly, Smith and some of the "BEST HISTORIANS" who are regarded as great writers in this regard. I would like to know, why didn't they dig the Origin of Jahangirnama before printing their books and citing these infos about kids..?... Eraly has mentioned Khannum Sultan to be child of Salima Begum, very EASILY ignoring the other version which says it to be a concubine...Before posting this thread, i knew i am taking panga with all these books. But, all these books, SADLY refer to JahangirNama, the translator of which makes it clear that the source is not trustworthy..You must have seen all these discrepancies, and posting about these discrepancies was possible ONLY when we had complete proof..Otherwise questioning a well established account is NOT an easy task...!. What about the twins, about whom, majority of people know to be MUZ's kids', and even that was 'designated' to Aram Baksh.?. The post was a NO-NONSENSE one, clearly cited facts wherever it was possible, which was WAY better than many FF's prevailing in the name of history.!!!. We can ascertain and can "proceed" in our quest to the truth, by digging from many sources, which i lay stress on, most of the times, in case of contradiction. It was NOT a jest remark, when we mentioned "Multiple Sources have been used here". Had you read many such sources, this point would not come here.!!. :)
Also, i would humbly ask you to verify the research papers which you are "SOON" going to read, { which i have gone through already !!!! }, with your OWN research as well. Any research paper which we read is a ready made material which the author compiles as per his/her views from SELECT references, Just try to substantiate the research papers' by reading from other accounts as well, and you will understand what i mean when i say read multiple accounts, +ve and -ve BOTH, and then try to reach the conclusion, the situation comes out to be far far better.!!!. :)
One who reads Abul Fazl should read the negative accounts as well..
2.
He couldn't have murdered anyone, not with his very capable father at the helm. Again I repeat, I only compared him to Akbar, not his successors.
How can this be WRITTEN WITH SUCH AN ASSURITY what Jahangir could have done and what he could not have done.?...
When he can get Abu'l Fazl murdered, despite presence of Akbar, what more vicious can one expect.?. He returned back from the battlefield when his father came to fight with him, he never faced him, despite having charge of Allahabad Garrison, and Akbar was worried, for this Garrison was the key to Bengal, and Deccan States.!!!. Fighting for throne was NOT started by Jahangir. Babur's father - Shaikh Mirza, also faced hostility from his brothers. Later, Which was faced by Babur as well..Humayun's brothers did the same. The fight was for throne, not an issue of brother-brother, or father-son. And, i did not get the logic of comparison of Akbar with Jahangir. It seems to be a mockery of Akbar if we do so. By the same Logic, can we compare Akbar with Humayun..😕 Also, If Jahangir and his brothers became addict how does this relates to the comparison with their mothers. It was clearly stated that, Daniyal/Murad became addicts
later while they were out, not initially. If someone becomes addict later, outside on campaigns, does it means his parents are to be blamed.?. Another thing, where you even questioned about Jahangir's bonding with his mother as mentioned in Jahangirnama. Again i have same point here.
Read other sources as well and you will see similar and EVEN MORE things being written about Jahangir and his mother, apart from Jahangirnama. Akbar carried his mother's palanquin while crossing river Indus. This incident is USED to show taht Akbar respected his mom a LOT. SIMILAR THING HAS been noted for Jahangir also. in 1620's, when Jahangir was NOT EVEN WELL., then ALSO he used to carry one end of the palanquin of his mother when her cavalcade used to take off from Agra Fort. I have the references for this also.!!.. All, i want to say is that, Before reading it is NOT fair to LAY question mark on any(every)thing{This is my personal opinion. Others may disagree. :) I accept this. }. Jahangirnama is not the end of all sources, since other sources are NOT easily available, seldom anyone tries to go through them, this i have seen in the case of best scholars also, which i cited above. We can read N number of readymade research papers and books, but digging from scratch has it's own FEELING, and give you another dimension of a person..Such deep is Mughal history that a person can spend years on one ruler, even then it would not seem complete. At times, even such events are recorded, which are NOT Possible to be written here, and hence i don't like discussing them...!!!!!!!!!..
I end here, for i feel, (repeating again, and i understand it ) unless research is DONE
by self, it is almost impossible to reach to a conclusion, about anything. And, at the end of the day, we all can draw any conclusions.
But, Unless info is dug up personally, it's tough to decipher
how it came through.!!!!!..
Lastly, i mention, the focus of research was ONLY Akbar INITIALLY, and then later his Wife, as these 2 people started to fascinate me, more than anyone. Akbar was GREAT and NO one can take away anything from this charismatic person. But this man and his wife's BONDING is inseparable, no matter what. All this hue and cry has been the product of recent digital media, which has tried to sully the image of Akbar also not only his wife, be it his religious reforms or social reforms, they have been moulded otherwise. Before all this, all were at peace with Akbar and Jodha's story since centuries..!!!!!...We all buddies here on IF have different opinions as far as serial is considered, which i LIKE A LOT when we exchange different POV's which makes wathcing it enjoyable, as we all do not like the same stuff::::: but the case should change, "
atleast to an extent " , when it comes to the
REAL ones.!!. :)
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
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