17 Oct Ja-Jo 'I know why she hates me now and I understand!' - Page 6

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sweet_diksha thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#51
that was very good , lashy. Now Jodha will finally be at her mind's peace, once she has finally confronted Jalal with the reasons of her hatred for him. now it's for him to win or lose. she won't understand it now, but if he wins, she too wins (her trophy will be Jalal's love), if he loses , she too loses (back in ghrina mode). so now it's Jalal who decided the future of their relationship. Let's see how CVs make it.

abt precap. it's going to be fun. i think it will be a light nok-jok btw them. like Jodha ordering him to go and check if anybody is there out of their room, and Jalal surprised that she can order him (by now he should be used to it). then seeing his hesitation, Jodha smirking and taunting if he is scared and she should go and check. and Jalal getting angry and going to door. and Jodha again smirking.

roles changed here. (this is my imagination for the precap tonight)) till now it was Jalal smirking , and Jodha getting angry, now Jodha smirking and Jalal angry and confused .
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Posted: 12 years ago
#52

@di 👍🏼 Well said.. Makes sense now 😊
pallavi003 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#53

Originally posted by: lashy


No the CVs are trying to show a transition...when the temples were shown looted, he was still under the guidance of BK...he's come a long way from then...

He didn't order for the temples to be looted, but then - he wasn't really bothered about it either when they came and told him about it. He was more transfixed on the info about Jo and that she'd stopped them! He overlooked the looting-temple-bit totally at that point!

Then, we know how things progressed...he married her and has really calmed down since then - conveniently forgetting about all of this (much like how many of us conveniently forget our past mistakes, not knowing how much they could have affected another person's life -till that whole issue is again brought back in front of us!)

After Jo's outburst, he suddenly realizes the odd-co-incidence they shared at that point in time. An odd co-incidence that would have meant nothing much to him then, but pains him now. The fact that he did nothing to quell the situation then has come back to question him now!

Obviously, due to the respect he has for Khan Baba he never takes his name in bad light...however, its obvious he's stopped following many cruel principles that BK had taught him! Therefore, the recent incidents that have come to light made him reflect on his past deeds in shame.

As for the anger he showed on Atgah Khan about not being informed of all of it properly, it was to do with collective issues me thinks - about the Ameri war, general looting, unethical war strategies - all of it!
Also, even if he was informed - it depends on who informs him too. When his victorious soldiers come and tell him about their wins, their information would be put forth in a very positive light and very one-sided 'Shehenshah...we won..we grabbed this...we got this...yayy...we won!'
But, if a neutral advisor had come and told Jalal the same thing, it'd have been 'Congrats on your win Shehenshah...but, your soldiers are looting and plundering...and this might not bode well for your sultanat in future'
Then, the boy might have thought things differently...that's why in his confessions, he's upset with HIMSELF AND WITH ATGAH KHAN. All this hadn't even struck him till she said how much the locals hated him for all this. It was a realization of all sorts me thinks😊

Hope I was able to abate some of your doubts...



by the way alakh ajkal forum me kam ati ho kya??kal shraddha di isi baat par dukhi thi.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#54
My dear Shraddha (I still like your id too),

As beautifully and thoroughly done as ever. A very smooth and satisfying read.

It does not seem to me that you have gone thru my Gordian Knot post of yesterday on the previous episode, with its different take on the whole temple visit, and the great significance of what Jalal did there, risking the very serious charge of butparasti (idol worship) which could have created major problems for the fledgling Shahenshah that he is at this stage.

While I detest Mahaam for any number of reasons, here, what she said yesternight makes perfect political sense. It would, if the full story had been leaked, have played straight into the hands of Jalal's enemies within his own camp.

Jalal surely knows that, and he takes a calculated risk. My assessment is, as I have said in my post, that it was not solely to quiet the turmoil in Jodha's zehen. It was for a vastly larger purpose, of winning over all of Hindustan and making it accept him by first accepting it, and respecting its faith and its beliefs. It is only incidentally about Jodha. It is more about Jalal morphing into Akbar. And Rajat brought that alive on screen with a sureness of touch and a gift for emotional nuance that was a feast for the eyes.

I liked your comment "I liked MA putting her points across to Jodha because Jodha got to learn the other side of the story too i.e. how the other Mughals would view Jalal's visit to the temple!" In fact,
I wondered if Jodha took in anything of what Mahaam yelled at her about the risks to Jalal from the temple visit. It did not seem so. For a princess born, she is strangely blank when it comes to politico-military and siyasati realities.

But let us leave that aside, and see if Jodha's outpouring of grief and rage against Jalal was

(a) justified and

(b) uniquely effective in transforming Jalal, as Mansi's post has it, from a 'small man' into a 'great man'.

Jodha's diatribe falls into 2 parts, one the despoilation of the Kali temple, and second the killing of the Ameri soldiers.

What I could not understand was her behaving as if this kind of outrage was unknown in her knowledge of history and thus so uniquely traumatic. In fact it was the opposite. I live in Pune, and I have read original documents in the archives here about how much looting and pillaging used to go on all around even before the Mughals. Not all the Rajvanshi rulers were like Maharana Pratap or his father Maharana Udai Singh or, later, Shivaji Maharaj. Some of them were pretty low specimens of humanity (a courtesy term when used for them) and they used to inflict these outrages on their own subjects.

Jodha would surely have heard some of these stories, unless her auditory apparatus has a filter set to cut off anything that does not have the word Jalal in it, like the trigger word activating an intelligency agency wiretap!😉

I am not surprised that she also assumes that Jalal must have personally authorised the raid on the temple. Moti once tried to point out to her, long before he came into the picture with his secret descent on Amer, that he might have known nothing about such things done in his name.Jodha dismissed the idea out of hand then, and obviously would do the same now. As I noted elsewhere, imagination and perceptiveness are not her strong points

Next, her claim that the Kali mandir attack was unexpected, and the Ameri soldiers having been caught unawares and thus killed. If this was so, why the the escort at all? In those day, real safety was only within your fortress walls, and there could have been dacoits, like those patronised by Sujanpur, even if there had been no Mughals. So why was Jodha's escort unprepared? That is something for which they should have been punished for slackness, as I did see any number of Ameri survivors after the Mughal raiders had been beaten off and Motibai rescued. Not lamented over as Jodha seems to be doing.

Actually, Jodha was not referring to that incident when she was talking about the burning pyres. She was referring to the battle with Sharifuddin, where the Amer army was defeated, for she clearly mentions their desire of Amer to retain its independence. Now here again, there are 2 points.

One, as her wonderful Dadisa points out, Amer was constantly coveted by a number of her more powerful Rajvanshi neighbours. If one of them had overrun and captured it, what about that? Would Jodha have felt better if her beloved Amer had been annexed by a Rajvanshi and not by a Mughal? Perhaps.

Two, assuming that it is the Mughal attack that alone is being considered, Jodha's rant about the burning pyres of the dead Ameri soldiers made no sense at all. Most of the Amer army was taken prisoner by Sharifuddin, not killed.

And if she is talking of the soldiers Jalal killed while he was escaping from Amer with the injured Abdul (whom I miss more than I can say!) if he had not killed them all, he could never have got away. So that part was nonsense.

So, my point is that Jodha's carrying on as if Jalal had authorised and presided over some uniquely outrageous attack against the Kali mandir is as unwarranted as her ranting about Jalal having crushed Amer's desire for independence. She is talking, as usual, thru her hat, or rather her pallav. If she had been married to the villainous Raja of Bundi, she would have found out at first hand what a king could inflict on his own people, and his wives.

As for the second point, the CVs may trot out the Jodha ne Jalal ko haivaan se kaise banaya insaan mantra, but let us not fall into that highly misleading pit along with them. Jalal was never a small man. He always had greatness in him, and once he was freed of his Khan Baba's harsh maxims, he came into his own, of which his descent on Malwa to eend Adham's atrocities was a prime example. That had nothing to do with Jodha.

Jalal is no small man who needs one woman's grief to make him great. The only thing Jodha did there was to let him know that this outrage had been committed, something he did not know. If he had known of it, he would have acted immediately to set it right.

He does not react now because the sense of outrage is Jodha's. He would have done the same if it was that little Hindu boy again who briefed him about the temple looting. So how is it a unique contribution of Jodha's? She just acts a public grievance system.

He does not defend himself to Jodha now not because it was some uniquely horrible incident, but rather because, even if he did not know about it, much less authorise it, the buck stops with him as the Shahenshah, and he is morally responsible for anything wrong done by his soldiers. He does not fudge that responsibility.

In the transformation of Jalal into Akbar, there were many catalysts, and Jodha was one of them. But not even the most effective catalyst can trigger a chemical reaction if the basic ingredients are not already present. And then there are some chemical reactions that are auto-catalysed, as with Jalal a good part of the time, beginning with the breakneck 16 day ride to Malwa to save Baz Bahadur's former subjects from Adham Khan.

None of the above takes anything away from the lucidity and deceptive simplicity of your post.

Lastly, the delightful precap reminded me of nothing so much as a wife waking up her husband at 2 am on a cold winter night and asking him to investigate a noise in the basement. Jalal's face as he looked at the khanjar his biwi had handed him, even as she made Bharatanatyam style nayanamudras towards the door, asking him to get on with it, was a treat!😉


Shyamala Aunty


Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#55

Originally posted by: sweet_diksha

that was very good , lashy. Now Jodha will finally be at her mind's peace, once she has finally confronted Jalal with the reasons of her hatred for him. now it's for him to win or lose. she won't understand it now, but if he wins, she too wins (her trophy will be Jalal's love), if he loses , she too loses (back in ghrina mode). so now it's Jalal who decided the future of their relationship. Let's see how CVs make it.

👏👏👏 very very very well said Diksha...

abt precap. it's going to be fun. i think it will be a light nok-jok btw them. like Jodha ordering him to go and check if anybody is there out of their room, and Jalal surprised that she can order him (by now he should be used to it). then seeing his hesitation, Jodha smirking and taunting if he is scared and she should go and check. and Jalal getting angry and going to door. and Jodha again smirking.
I'm worried the CVs don't rush it through and take it slowly and well..done well it'll have the possibility of looking extremely cute, if not -it'd just end up like another boat ride and tent scene..

roles changed here. (this is my imagination for the precap tonight)) till now it was Jalal smirking , and Jodha getting angry, now Jodha smirking and Jalal angry and confused .
Thanks dear for your lovely lovely comments...


Originally posted by: pallavi003


by the way alakh ajkal forum me kam ati ho kya??kal shraddha di isi baat par dukhi thi.

😭 thank Pallavi for bringing out my grief for her to see...
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#56

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Shraddha (I still like your id too),

😳

As beautifully and thoroughly done as ever. A very smooth and satisfying read.
Thank you...😳

It does not seem to me that you have gone thru my Gordian Knot post of yesterday on the previous episode, with its different take on the whole temple visit, and the great significance of what Jalal did there, risking the very serious charge of butparasti (idol worship) which could have created major problems for the fledgling Shahenshah that he is at this stage.
Though I did not read it (have sent you a pm) I have got the jist of what was in, when I read your reply in Vicky's post...and I TOTALLY agree with it all..😊

While I detest Mahaam for any number of reasons, here, what she said yesternight makes perfect political sense. It would, if the full story had been leaked, have played straight into the hands of Jalal's enemies within his own camp.
Oh surely, same here...I'm sure you'd have caught the same undertones in my write-up too!

Jalal surely knows that, and he takes a calculated risk. My assessment is, as I have said in my post, that it was not solely to quiet the turmoil in Jodha's zehen. It was for a vastly larger purpose, of winning over all of Hindustan and making it accept him by first accepting it, and respecting its faith and its beliefs. It is only incidentally about Jodha. It is more about Jalal morphing into Akbar. And Rajat brought that alive on screen with a sureness of touch and a gift for emotional nuance that was a feast for the eyes.
I loved the last scene of his - that victorious smile at the end - its not evil - its just calculated and confident...I loved that smile that showed that just because he can be like a childlike lover boy in front of Jo, doesn't mean he has lost his sights on what he was setting out to do...👏

I liked your comment "I liked MA putting her points across to Jodha because Jodha got to learn the other side of the story too i.e. how the other Mughals would view Jalal's visit to the temple!" In fact, I wondered if Jodha took in anything of what Mahaam yelled at her about the risks to Jalal from the temple visit. It did not seem so. For a princess born, she is strangely blank when it comes to politico-military and siyasati realities.
Nope I don't think she did...but, atleast she did keep quiet, at least she didn't speak ill of Jalal and at least she maintained a confident facade without crumbling...for that alone, I admired her in that scene!

What I could not understand was her behaving as if this kind of outrage was unknown in her knowledge of history and thus so uniquely traumatic. In fact it was the opposite. I live in Pune, and I have read original documents in the archives here about how much looting and pillaging used to go on all around even before the Mughals. Not all the Rajvanshi rulers were like Maharana Pratap or his father Maharana Udai Singh or, later, Shivaji Maharaj. Some of them were pretty low specimens of humanity (a courtesy term when used for them) and they used to inflict these outrages on their own subjects.
Oh I am SO CERTAIN OF IT...it's all to cater to the 21st century sentiments of viewers...they have made her look like a 21st century social rights activist 😊...she could have still been a social rights activist while keeping her era in mind - i.e. 16th century...I mean - no hunting, no wars, no punishments for assassins -is that anyway practical? She is of royal blood,after all. They need not show Jo so impractically angelic in these respects for her to stand against Jalal... IYKWIM...its all for the sake of modern viewership that's all! Not everyone understands everything in context aunty...😊

I am not surprised that she also assumes that Jalal must have personally authorised the raid on the temple. Moti once tried to point out to her, long before he came into the picture with his secret descent on Amer, that he might have known nothing about such things done in his name.Jodha dismissed the idea out of hand then, and obviously would do the same now. As I noted elsewhere, imagination and perceptiveness are not her strong points
She did blame his army - not him directly..but, she holds him responsible for committing mistakes of omission rather than commission...much like how she accepted the blame for the Holi fiasco - which was more a mistake of omission than commission...

One, as her wonderful Dadisa points out, Amer was constantly coveted by a number of her more powerful Rajvanshi neighbours. If one of them had overrun and captured it, what about that? Would Jodha have felt better if her beloved Amer had been annexed by a Rajvanshi and not by a Mughal? Perhaps.
Someone needs to tell her all that...but, looking at Jo's prejudice against Jalal so far (prejudice that she doesn't have against anyone else) me thinks all these comparative facts will just fly over her - since she chooses not to want to think in a balanced fashion about him (and him alone!)

So, my point is that Jodha's carrying on as if Jalal had authorised and presided over some uniquely outrageous attack against the Kali mandir is as unwarranted as her ranting about Jalal having crushed Amer's desire for independence. She is talking, as usual, thru her hat, or rather her pallav. If she had been married to the villainous Raja of Bundi, she would have found out at first hand what a king could inflict on his own people, and his wives.
😕 true...but then again this is for the sake of drama and not reality...Jo's stubbornness keeps us wanting to tear our hair apart discussing all this...if Jo was so straightforward and level-headed we wouldn't have five topics about her per day - three in support of her actions and two against... same is the case of MA and Ruqs...you always have something to say in support of them - however grey they're painted!


In the transformation of Jalal into Akbar, there were many catalysts, and Jodha was one of them. But not even the most effective catalyst can trigger a chemical reaction if the basic ingredients are not already present. And then there are some chemical reactions that are auto-catalysed, as with Jalal a good part of the time, beginning with the breakneck 16 day ride to Malwa to save Baz Bahadur's former subjects from Adham Khan.
I realize that..but, again that'd have to be creative license...possibly with the explanation that a person you're attracted to (whether you claim to hate them or not) might propel you to do things much faster than a person you're not attracted to...😊

None of the above takes anything away from the lucidity and deceptive simplicity of your post.
🤗

Lastly, the delightful precap reminded me of nothing so much as a wife waking up her husband at 2 am on a cold winter night and asking him to investigate a noise in the basement. Jalal's face as he looked at the khanjar his biwi had handed him, even as she made Bharatanatyam style nayanamudras towards the door, asking him to get on with it, was a treat!😉
It was...hope the CVs don't disappoint!

Thanks aunty🤗


Autumn_Rose thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#57


Have been busy 😭

I miss you guys too🤗
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#58

Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose



Have been busy 😭

I miss you guys too🤗

Oh nooo...when will you be free again...😭
Autumn_Rose thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#59

Originally posted by: lashy

Oh nooo...when will you be free again...😭


Don't know😭
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Posted: 12 years ago
#60

Job life about to start

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