What if Arnav was a Girl??

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Lurvebooks

@Lurvebooks

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+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#51

A hat trick of posts 😉 just read back through other peoples replies what I found interesting is how each person viewed ASR slightly differently ... just an observation 😊.

Intended or unintended I think it was sheer brilliance wesha that you didn't actually qualify what exactly about ASR should be similar ...

Edited by Lurvebooks - 13 years ago

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Marybarton

@Marybarton

Rocker

+ 8

Posted: 13 years ago

#52

This is such a wonderful question Wesha and one that I have been thinking about for quite a while. That's why I made the post about Khushi's purity and gender different expectations around s** (cause there are young kids here). I do think, like you said, Khushi is a feminist's delight. Guess it is no surprise why I am here then.

Khushi is a younger version of Arnav in many ways. Her circumstances forced her to head the family and she would become more and more like Arnav as the years passed. Perhaps she would be an optimist but she would be the one with a firm shake and a strong backbone. Eventually her bubbly-ness may be covered up so that she would be taken seriously in the working world. Society does not accept a female Arnav as easily as it does a male one.

I am not talking about independent, career women not being able to find love. Though they also talk about the problem of being intimidating and scaring away men. Khushi would have been a more extreme version of that if she was Arnav. Smart, self-made woman who no one can take advantage of, one who has the weight of the world on her shoulders. Add to that her moral compass, ideas about relationships and marriage and you have a conservative yet progressive woman that most men don't have the guts for. I don't know how she would be seen in the Indian subcontinent, probably not well. But it does not get any easier for an Indian woman in the West. In fact, the problem may compound.

Trust me, I know what I am saying because I have experienced this. I am to a great extent self-made wherever I am and I am more often than not labeled by males and females as too assertive or opinionated like it is a turn-off. Then, on the romantic front you tend to attract weak people who need to be taken care of because they are more attracted to the strength and confidence. Or you have the ones who look at you, see a quiet minority woman and think you are meek. Comes as a shock when you are found to have a steel back bone. As one girl I know put it, they see me and they want to protect me but once they know me, they want to protect themselves 😆

A female Arnav needs an equal if not more strength to accept her as she is. Thus far, I have not seen it in real life. The most successful female Arnavs are feminists and they are not the stereotypical angry, bra burning ones that people like to vilify them as. That too is part of the issue. When a woman is like Arnav, she is called a Shrew (in Shakespeare), a Hitler Didi (in Indian soaps) and a feminist (as the misunderstood term for angry, bra-burning lesbians). Feminists just want equality in treatment, that is all. In the past most killed themselves because of hatred from society and in the present they are single but content for living by their own terms. Doesn't mean they have taken up lesbianism (I personally see nothing wrong with it, just to clarify) or bra burning. I recently saw a documentary which showed that highly educated minority women (as most of us are in the West) have difficulty settling down. A few have house husbands or very accepting manly husbands who adore their free spirit but these are the very few.

Sorry giving the long answer and I hope I didn't depress you.

Edited by Marybarton - 13 years ago

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dramebaaz.af

@dramebaaz.af

Sparkler

+ 6

Arshi Analyzers

Posted: 13 years ago

#53

Interesting topic!
I'm a girl and I can fully connect to ASR!
ASR had Anjali with him but what about when you are alone on the abandoned streets with NO one to hold on to! I have faced that situation and I think there's no going back after you've turned ur heart into a stone! the turmoil turns you into a person where there's no real way of exit!

Being 18 isn't an excuse of being nave and all! The situations life brings makes a person mature enough to handle themselves! It could be at the age of 11, 15 or 18!

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Marybarton

@Marybarton

Rocker

+ 8

Posted: 13 years ago

#54

Originally posted by: areeba_blossom
Interesting topic!
I'm a girl and I can fully connect to ASR!
ASR had Anjali with him but what about when you are alone on the abandoned streets with NO one to hold on to! I have faced that situation and I think there's no going back after you've turned ur heart into a stone! the turmoil turns you into a person where there's no real way of exit!

Being 18 isn't an excuse of being nave and all! The situations life brings makes a person mature enough to handle themselves! It could be at the age of 11, 15 or 18!

Well said here Areeba. I cannot agree with you more. I remember one of my first posts here was about how I identify with Arnav but perhaps morally speaking am more like Khushi. And I have been this way since I became a teen. One can be way younger than 18. It's really about life circumstances.

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JerryTheMouse

@JerryTheMouse

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#55

Omg what a post and questions! Makes one think hard! ⭐️

I don't know someone like that in real life, I guess if I did, I just probably chalked her up as stuck up! 😲

Seriously though, I believe that our society is still not accepting of strong women. I haven't watched the show hitler didi, but I am curious now.

My mom always told me, even though it's a patriarchal society, it's the women that are other women's strongest ally or worst enemies. She meant that no matter what, if the women in the family promoted equality, than children within the family would learn and value equality. Whereas if the women in the family promoted values about men and women not being equal, than even if the men were, the children would grow up to have dichotomous values.

Case in point being Garima and buaji. Shashi actually supports khushi, it's Garima and buaji who have dual values about family, and girls, and what is allowed and not.

I am done with my rambling... Great post @Wesha. 👏

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Marybarton

@Marybarton

Rocker

+ 8

Posted: 13 years ago

#56

Originally posted by: Sjm15
Omg what a post and questions! Makes one think hard! ⭐️

I don't know someone like that in real life, I guess if I did, I just probably chalked her up as stuck up! 😲

Seriously though, I believe that our society is still not accepting of strong women. I haven't watched the show hitler didi, but I am curious now.

My mom always told me, even though it's a patriarchal society, it's the women that are other women's strongest ally or worst enemies. She meant that no matter what, if the women in the family promoted equality, than children within the family would learn and value equality. Whereas if the women in the family promoted values about men and women not being equal, than even if the men were, the children would grow up to have dichotomous values.

Case in point being Garima and buaji. Shashi actually supports khushi, it's Garima and buaji who have dual values about family, and girls, and what is allowed and not.

I am done with my rambling... Great post @Wesha. 👏

Yes, stuck up, uptight, B**ch, heard it all.

I agree with your mom. Women are often the ones that turn into each other's worst enemies.

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wesha

@wesha

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#57

Originally posted by: Lurvebooks
A hat trick of posts 😉 just read back through other peoples replies what I found interesting is how each person viewed ASR slightly differently ... just an observation 😊.

Intended or unintended I think it was sheer brilliance wesha that you didn't actually qualify what exactly about ASR should be similar ...

Thank you for that maiden hat-trick !!😉

ASR's qualities have not been qualified in so many words in the post. But then again my original post had qualified that 'hardened soul' that he is. (the part in italics).

In real life, I hate to be typified. I believe situation rules all the time and you act in the situation within the educated purview of your moral,ethic,behavior.

So, I really cannot typify ASR. As a fictional character, there is only one constant factor - that he is this angry, tormented-by-his-past, ruthless yet has his heart in the right place kind of a man. But, all of this can get manifested in various ways. And right now, the story is at a point, that there is no telling how he is going to throw his 'type' about. This actually adds to the fact that people might unnecessarily react strongly against some given portrayal of ASR now and deviate from the actual question that is being asked. Because it was important that if some of the youngsters who are going about zealously defending ASR's behavior read those realistic discussions, they might get some idea of how clouded they are being. This without them getting unnecessarily pissed off with me.😛

In any case, from my previous experience with writing posts, if you want people to say more than 'loved it'...if you want to really reach out and know them through your post...you will need to leave some scope for them completing your post and giving inputs to it.

I am glad that this forum has people like you, SJ and all my friends who have commented here. I added a few lines to my post after SJ's reply to it because I was myself not sure how I was coming across.

All said and done, If you have read through all the comments and my reply to them, my focus was on finding out if a woman is so riddled by her past that she behaves like how ASR is doing right now or even when he was doing all those "letting Khushi fall to the first floor" antics, then will there be a man who will have as much patience to keep trying to soften her up...like we are expecting Khushi to do right now?

Turns out that, however differently people might have viewed ASR, even if it has to be only the hot-headed part, it still is not the same for his female counterpart in real life to find 'that' love. Like Swati said, it is possible, but rare!!

btw, I have seen Sassy Girl too!!😊

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wesha

@wesha

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#58

Originally posted by: Marybarton
This is such a wonderful question Wesha and one that I have been thinking about for quite a while. That's why I made the post about Khushi's purity and gender different expectations around s** (cause there are young kids here). I do think, like you said, Khushi is a feminist's delight. Guess it is no surprise why I am here then.

Khushi is a younger version of Arnav in many ways. Her circumstances forced her to head the family and she would become more and more like Arnav as the years passed. Perhaps she would be an optimist but she would be the one with a firm shake and a strong backbone. Eventually her bubbly-ness may be covered up so that she would be taken seriously in the working world. Society does not accept a female Arnav as easily as it does a male one.

I am not talking about independent, career women not being able to find love. Though they also talk about the problem of being intimidating and scaring away men. Khushi would have been a more extreme version of that if she was Arnav. Smart, self-made woman who no one can take advantage of, one who has the weight of the world on her shoulders. Add to that her moral compass, ideas about relationships and marriage and you have a conservative yet progressive woman that most men don't have the guts for. I don't know how she would be seen in the Indian subcontinent, probably not well. But it does not get any easier for an Indian woman in the West. In fact, the problem may compound.

Trust me, I know what I am saying because I have experienced this. I am to a great extent self-made wherever I am and I am more often than not labeled by males and females as too assertive or opinionated like it is a turn-off. Then, on the romantic front you tend to attract weak people who need to be taken care of because they are more attracted to the strength and confidence. Or you have the ones who look at you, see a quiet minority woman and think you are meek. Comes as a shock when you are found to have a steel back bone. As one girl I know put it, they see me and they want to protect me but once they know me, they want to protect themselves 😆

A female Arnav needs an equal if not more strength to accept her as she is. Thus far, I have not seen it in real life. The most successful female Arnavs are feminists and they are not the stereotypical angry, bra burning ones that people like to vilify them as. That too is part of the issue. When a woman is like Arnav, she is called a Shrew (in Shakespeare), a Hitler Didi (in Indian soaps) and a feminist (as the misunderstood term for angry, bra-burning lesbians). Feminists just want equality in treatment, that is all. In the past most killed themselves because of hatred from society and in the present they are single but content for living by their own terms. Doesn't mean they have taken up lesbianism (I personally see nothing wrong with it, just to clarify) or bra burning. I recently saw a documentary which showed that highly educated minority women (as most of us are in the West) have difficulty settling down. A few have house husbands or very accepting manly husbands who adore their free spirit but these are the very few.

Sorry giving the long answer and I hope I didn't depress you.

In fact, Thank You Mary for putting it down so so well.

@black. This is exactly what I told someone in this post who claimed that we the female population wanted to watch only weak females getting 'wooed' by macho men. I wondered how can THIS population who have been replying to my posts with such clarity and logical thinking have that kind of a fantasy? If rare things are shown in fiction, I would rather like to see this above rare phenomena that you admit to have not seen much in real life rather than this fantasy that 'majority' are supposed to have.

My belief is you can be a 'feminist', you can be just the slum-girl next door who has struggled into a similar disposition and you can be a man with all those ASR-like banes of anger, torment, ruthlessness in you. At the end of the day, one should look at you 'objectively' and not 'subjectively'.

If you are treating one with love, why is it that your treating the other with scepticism??

Maybe, there can be deeper anthropological reasoning behind this - you show such women love and they behave so and so...you show such men love...they behave so and so...

But, as I always say, situation rules. You cannot generalize such conceptions. You cannot be judgemental from the word go.

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JerryTheMouse

@JerryTheMouse

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#59

Originally posted by: Marybarton

Yes, stuck up, uptight, B**ch, heard it all.

I agree with your mom. Women are often the ones that turn into each other's worst enemies.

@Mary: thanks. When i was writing my reaction here, at first I felt ashamed that I would have chalked up the person as stuck up... StIll, I needed to be honest in order to move beyond that.

Frankly, I would have thought if a male like ASR also as stuck up and moved on... In real life.

I actually knew someone when I was in my teens who was like that, the guy was hot as hell, and I was swooning for a day that he wanted to go out with me, that he asked me out, that he even noticed me... Yada yada yada...

and then reality stuck. 😲

By that I mean my brains kicked in, and I realized that I don't even know if I'd ever be respected by this person, (i didnt know him well, but i saw how he talked with his mother) and I don't even know if I'd ever be safe. Is anything worth that? NO! 😡

So I came to my senses and never went on that first date. And to this date I am so proud of myself!

I guess it's easier for me to swoon when we know they are actors, and I always see how different BS is in real life...

But then again, I digress...

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wesha

@wesha

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#60

Originally posted by: Sjm15

@Mary: thanks. When i was writing my reaction here, at first I felt ashamed that I would have chalked up the person as stuck up... StIll, I needed to be honest in order to move beyond that.

Frankly, I would have thought if a male like ASR also as stuck up and moved on... In real life.

I actually knew someone when I was in my teens who was like that, the guy was hot as hell, and I was swooning for a day that he wanted to go out with me, that he asked me out, that he even noticed me... Yada yada yada...
and then reality stuck. 😲
By that I mean my brains kicked in, and I realized that I don't even know if I'd ever be respected by this person, (i didnt know him well, but i saw how he talked with his mother) and I don't even know if I'd ever be safe. Is anything worth that? NO! 😡

So I came to my senses and never went on that first date. And to this date I am so proud of myself!

I guess it's easier for me to swoon when we know they are actors, and I always see how different BS is in real life...

But then again, I digress...

Thanks Sanchi ( think that is what your name is if I read correctly on one of SJ's posts😊 )

So, that no one feels ashamed, I have not really spelled out in so many words, what I mean by ASR although I had a pretty good idea myself what I was looking for. You could have just guessed being ASR-isk means being 'hot-headed' and so on. But you didn't, you are right in noticing that being ASR-isk actually means being uptight and bitchy and I am glad that you applied this thought process when you evaluated your option of going out with a 'guy' as well.

This is the kind of objectivity I was telling Mary about. And you have it spot-on. :) So, yes, feel proud.!!