B R Chopra portrayal of Karna with reference to KMG

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Semanti Chakraborty

@DharmaPriyaa

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#11

@Shivang dadabhai:
Oh! What a pleasant surprise! You really made my day by doing all these hard work for me 😃❤️ And how blessed I am to have a brother like you who created a new thread on IF for second time only, (leaving his almost Bhishma pratiggya not to open a thread in IF 😆) despite of being inactive here now, just for making me happy today

With the verses supplied by me, you made a great post to open eyes of people 👍🏼 hats off for this brilliant idea ⭐️ Also you did very nice job by adding BRC MB & SPMB references here 👍🏼 i really liked the way you showed the similarity of Lord Ram's speech during Vaali vadh with Lord Krishna's speech during Karna vadh 😃 remember that we discussed that Vaali can be equated with Karna?
Let the minds of people be opened by merciful Lord 😊

One request, dadabhai, can you please post these in MB forum too? 😊 That forum members need these informations very much, I think.

@Varaali didi:
I can remember that Non AT for Karna created by you in MB forum 😊 I also made a post there by appreciating & supporting your work with three points to continue the discussion. But unfortunately the thread was locked by Mod before I login next time to reply to the posts made by Karna fans.

Regarding Draupadi Swayamvara, I guess that Draupadi already knew that Karna was involved with lakshagriha conspiracy, so she started to hate him alongwith Duryodhan & Co so she disagreed to marry him. Mentioning his caste was hurting for Karna, OK I agree, but what if Draupadi said directly that, 'you are a bad person who can even think to burn people alive, I don't want a husband like you'? With a tensed heart (which is normal for a girl in her swayamvar) she used the caste factor which was known to her, just to save herself from getting such a husband.

His lie to Lord Parshurama was a real lie. He told his Guru gotra, OK fine, but how could he use his Guru gotra before being accepted by that Guru? Parshurama did not accept him then when he told that he was a Brahmin.

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#12

Originally posted by: Urmila11
@Shivang dadabhai:
Oh! What a pleasant surprise! You really made my day by doing all these hard work for me 😃❤️ And how blessed I am to have a brother like you who created a new thread on IF for second time only, (leaving his almost Bhishma pratiggya not to open a thread in IF 😆) despite of being inactive here now, just for making me happy today

With the verses supplied by me, you made a great post to open eyes of people 👍🏼 hats off for this brilliant idea ⭐️ Also you did very nice job by adding BRC MB & SPMB references here 👍🏼 i really liked the way you showed the similarity of Lord Ram's speech during Vaali vadh with Lord Krishna's speech during Karna vadh 😃 remember that we discussed that Vaali can be equated with Karna?
Let the minds of people be opened by merciful Lord 😊

One request, dadabhai, can you please post these in MB forum too? 😊 That forum members need these informations very much, I think.

My pleasure behena. 😃🤗 🥳

Aur MB forum me mai zaroor post karta but as I said mai wahan kisi ko janta pehechanta nahi hun. Kisi ke bhi sath argue karne ke liye ya kisi ka misconception dur karne ke liye pehele uske thoughts, uski rigidity, uski flexibility, degree of openmindedness or closemindedness ye sab samajhna zaroori hai. I should be knowing the kind of person whom I am addressing and I should be sure that he or she would not take my sentence to be biased or subjective or irrational. I would like to enter into debate but only with someone who is not arguing baselessly or emotionally. For example, I am comfortable arguing with Vrish here even if our opinions on Yudhishthir didn't match or don't match probably.

Why don't you post the link of this thread over there sharing your happiness of seeing this thread? For those who liked Varaali didi's post over there and would like to join here. If by following that link, some of those who don't like the contents of this thread, want to join the debate, let them also come but with strong KMG (or whatever other translation source that they follow) quote support only. There is no point in foolishly quarreling with them when they think that we are biased and also when they are not ready to acknowledge the point where they are defeated or have no concrete specific answer to that specific point. Let's welcome them if they take my all 25 points one by one by coming with substantiating points with Epic verses or English translation quotes.

Alternatively, you can simply copy paste the contents over there entirely and start the debate over there only, if rules permit. I have absolutely no objection. No need to even mention my name. Because the same are your thoughts and even greater reading of epic and knowledge actually. Or you can simply post the KMG contents and tell everyone to add positive points of Karna also from KMG IF THEY CAN FIND. They can very well add to the 25 points with some positive point in the epic which is shown reverse and negatively in the shows (For example, Karna only cut the bow string of Abhimanyu and he was not killed by all together the way shown by BRC) .

Edited by ShivangBuch - 11 years ago

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#13

This is great information, thank you so much for sharing!

It's not just BRC's Mahabharat or Star Plus' Mahabharat. Media has glorified Karna beyond what his character actually deserves, and almost every single movie or show based on the Mahabharat is guilty of this. In Veda Vyasa's Mahabharata, Karna is not such a tragic soul as media has made him out to be. In many cases, he is as bad as Duryodhan in his conspiracy against the Pandavas. Like you mentioned, he did not meet Duryodhan at the rangbhoomi for the first time. They were friends since childhood but many people do not know this. Also, the term "suta putra" was not as heinous as shows and movies make it out to be. It was just another sub-caste which had most privileges as the other castes. It was only when it came to education, they were denied the knowledge of astras which was reserved only for Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Otherwise, a suta putra was not some dirty, backward caste that people think it is.

I think someone should post this whole thing in the Mahabharat forum. Some of the members there can really benefit from it as they defend Karna to such an extent that all his ill deeds are overlooked. If Duryodhan receives so much hatred from people, why is Karna glorified? Both of them were pretty much the same. Duryodhan too should be forgiven for his sins if Karna is, but for some reason, the media does not favor "poor" Duryodhan.

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Surya Sundarraj Sriram

@Surya_krsnbhakt

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#14

Wow, @ShivangBuch you are on a roll!

How did you manage to sit and collect these facts?

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smrth

@smrth

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#15

The entire approach is objective, based on objective facts of the Vyas MB, presented with objective analysis and refutal to purely subjective misinformations that abounds in name of 'great literature of tragic hero' or 'false idols of repressed people'. Thanks TM, I was lucky to come across this thread through Urmila's post in MB forum. I had tried many times to present some of these facts in MB forum. ESP. Bhim's poisoning and Lakshagrih conspiracy. Only to be flaked and overwhelmed by perceivably deliberate crowding (with most inane logics of 'refusals') by fans. After a point, one feels, why waste time?

I agree entirely with observations about misinformations and fan reactions. The damage is in further spread and bolstering of these misinformations, as mass media is unfortunately a powerful disseminating medium. Ironically source itself gets refuted by the 'impressions'. Thanks again TM.👏

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#16

This is probably the first time, I'm coming to this forum.

Well, thanks a lot for this post, as it's quite informative.

I have some mixed feelings regarding Karna.

On one hand, I admire him for not having inclination to throne, for giving up his Kavach and Kundal, for sparing the 4 Pandavas, and also his conversation with Lord Krishna. where he repents his actions.

But the next moment, I see him as someone picking up a rivalry with Arjun, participating in Lakshagriha plot, causing Draupadi's disrobing, insulting Bhishm, Drone and Kripa, participating in Abhimanyu's death, and later dancing at it, knowing well, that Abhimanyu was his nephew, etc.

Well, my opinion of Karna shifts from being negative to positive, and vice-versa, as I read many posts regarding him.I have read KMG. however, due to the language, and the long analogies, I have skipped some parts, while reading. So, sometimes, I get really surprised to see some citations.

The problem with the general public is that, most people follow the easier path. People prefer serials and fictitious novels to the epic, and hence start growing misconceptions about characters.

This is mainly true for Karna and Draupadi.

In BR Chopra's serial, as well as, in many other novels, Draupadi has been portrayed very arrogantly.Which is y, most people have this misconception that Draupadi was a vile, arrogant woman.And people use the famous "Sutaputra" comment to claim her "arrogance". I do not know, what your opinion of Draupadi is, but I am a huge fan of her.

And while I read KMG, I honestly did not find anything so vile or arrogant about her.

Yes, she was proud and firm, but that does not mean she used to disrespect her husbands and insult everyone.

This similar misconception is about Karna as well. Generally, people have this idea that Karna was one very noble man, who suffered a LOT in his life, was an angel at heart, was wronged by everyone, and died like a hero.

No doubt, Karna had some great virtues, struggled for his caste, was killed in an unfair manner, but often his "struggles" are exaggerated. And this is mainly done by serials and novels like "Mrityunjay" and "Karna's Wife".

I made a post on Karna, a month back, mentioning both his flaws, and virtues. While writing the article, I kept in mind, the sensitivity of the forum members, and tried to make the post balanced, and unbiased. Although, many people appreciated that post, many people started attacking me, with personal comments. The title was a bit different, n some people, without reading my post, started making negative comments.

That's when I realized that any post on Karna, that deals with his flaws, will be met with criticism.

For some reason, some people are extremely sensitive about Karna.

Draupadi is condemned, abused and what not, in various blogs, and social networking sites, only for one "Sutaputra" comment she made( which is not even there in the critical edition) and one peal of laughter.

But when Karna's flaws(like causing a woman's disrobing, and participating in murder plot) are pointed out, some people(NOT ALL) get excited, and start giving explanations about how he was always insulted, and how his sins were "just outburst".

I still believe that Karna had virtues, and was much,much better than Duryodhan.

However, I just can't come to terms with his mistakes.

So, yes, I have respect for Karna, for his virtues, but somewhere, I feel that he is over-glorified.

But that is strictly, my opinion.

If I have offended anyone, then I apologize.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#17

Unfortunately, some people are just not ready to accept that Karna committed many sins. They claim that he had "humanly faults" but so did the Pandavas, so what should it matter? Of course the Pandavas had faults. Everyone in the epic was human except Lord Krishna, but there is a difference between fault and sin, and the Kauravas' side definitely committed far more sins. The Pandavas were not involved in any murder plot. They never tried to steal others' wealth through unfair means. Everything they achieved in life was won through hard work and the blessings of God.

Many foul words are used against Draupadi on social networking sites, simply for her "sutaputra" comment, but the fact that Karna called Draupadi a wh**e and gave Duryodhan the idea to strip her was of course simply a retaliation which she deserved. 🤢 People blame Yudhisthir for everything that went wrong in the Pandavas' lives simply for the one mistake he made in the dice game, but the sins of Karna are overlooked because he was such a "tragic hero" and suffered so much. The reality is that Karna lived a pretty happy life with his foster family, and he did not receive hatred from society for being a suta putra. It's really a shame that movies, shows and books glorify Karna to such an extent that his sins seem like mere faults to people.

It's not that I hate Karna. I do agree he is better than Duryodhan, and he had qualities which are worthy of respect, but the ignorant obsession of his fans are making me dislike him. The way they glorify him and bash the Pandavas and Draupadi for being his "enemies" is so ignorant. In the end of the day, they are learning nothing from the epic than to defend the sins of its characters in the name of favoritism. If Karna had really been such a hero, then Lord Krishna would not have had him killed. The fact that he got killed should give people an idea that he may have had some good qualities, but ultimately he committed many sins and died because of all the bad karma he had accumulated in that lifetime.

Edited by ..RamKiJanaki.. - 11 years ago

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amritat

@amritat

Sparkler

Posted: 11 years ago

#18

Well, I cannot claim, whether Karna was happy in his personal life or not.

Coz, Ved Vyas does not really say much about Karna's personal life.

Maybe, he did have inner turmoil regarding his caste, but I, too, feel, that somewhere, his struggles are exaggerated.

It is true that, people who watch sins silently are flawed. But the people inflicting the misery, and committing the sins directly, are far more at fault. That's how I interpret Draupadi's Vastraharan.

I would actually blame the novels, serials and movies, for this. Some people tend to believe in "Mrityunjay" more than the epic itself.

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#19

Originally posted by: Surya_krsnbhakt
Wow, @ShivangBuch you are on a roll!
How did you manage to sit and collect these facts?

Thank you so much friend. Actually I have all the Parvas of KMG downloaded in separate word files. Whenever any discussion topic is going on or any quiz question is going on in the SOC game, I can easily find that particular part of the epic with the help of Ctrl F function, can read only that part and post it. I have posted many such quotes in different threads before but this time probably it was the maximum number of posts from many different places. And of course some personal discussions with Semanti herself also helped. She already knew all these as she has read the entire epic many times and I just confirmed and compiled from text what she used to know and discuss with me and in MB forum (Although I have not read her posts in MB forum much).

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Shivang

@ShivangBuch

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#20

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..
This is great information, thank you so much for sharing!

It's not just BRC's Mahabharat or Star Plus' Mahabharat. Media has glorified Karna beyond what his character actually deserves, and almost every single movie or show based on the Mahabharat is guilty of this. In Veda Vyasa's Mahabharata, Karna is not such a tragic soul as media has made him out to be. In many cases, he is as bad as Duryodhan in his conspiracy against the Pandavas. Like you mentioned, he did not meet Duryodhan at the rangbhoomi for the first time. They were friends since childhood but many people do not know this. Also, the term "suta putra" was not as heinous as shows and movies make it out to be. It was just another sub-caste which had most privileges as the other castes. It was only when it came to education, they were denied the knowledge of astras which was reserved only for Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Otherwise, a suta putra was not some dirty, backward caste that people think it is.

I think someone should post this whole thing in the Mahabharat forum. Some of the members there can really benefit from it as they defend Karna to such an extent that all his ill deeds are overlooked. If Duryodhan receives so much hatred from people, why is Karna glorified? Both of them were pretty much the same. Duryodhan too should be forgiven for his sins if Karna is, but for some reason, the media does not favor "poor" Duryodhan.

So you are here too.🤗 Now I am relaxed as I am not required to come again and again to reply in this thread since you are here for me. I have the license and luxury to disappear again.😆 Your replies will be almost what my replies can be. 😛 I suppose now you can bring somebody else too in the forum with you to be your partner in every action.😃 😉 J/k.😆 But I would love to see that.

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B R Chopra portrayal of Karna with reference to KMG - Page 2

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