|| Indian Mythology:: Doubts & Discussions || - Page 44

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RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

While researching the others, one thing that surprised me - Rama asking Lakshaman to return to Ayodhya w/ Sumantra. What surprised me was the reason - Rama suspected that Kaikeyi might try to persecute Kaushalya & Sumitra, and so wanted Lakshman to protect them


It's interesting that in Valmiki, Ram is not all Kaikeyi-loving as serials and movies show. He actually criticizes her in the epic and points out her deeds as wrong and selfish. I wonder from which source serials get the Kaikeyi-loving Ram.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Very true. In fact, in one of their confrontations w/ a rakshasha in Aranya Kand, Rama loses his cool @ one point and speculates that Kaikeyi must have wanted that from them. However, he always smacks Laksman whenever the latter casts his aspersions 😈😆


The serials - both the Sagar ones in particular - IMO overdid it by showing Rama even as Manthara loving, and Manthara as repentant. Even in Valmiki, there is nothing about Rama going the extra mile to placate Kaikeyi, the way Yudisthir would do for Gandhari after the war. This attribution of mahan-ness is really annoying 🤔

In RSR, they did show RSL visit Valmiki @ Chitrakoot. Valmiki was very much a sage, and if his work is to be believed, all the Ramayan had already been written - he was just witnessing it live for those few days 😆 He would probably have spent much of the Treta Yuga in the anthill, and then emerged fully enlightened.

Incidentally, in which book does the story of Ratnakar/Valmiki first surface? It's definitely not in the Ramayan, or is it?
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Very true. In fact, in one of their confrontations w/ a rakshasha in Aranya Kand, Rama loses his cool @ one point and speculates that Kaikeyi must have wanted that from them. However, he always smacks Laksman whenever the latter casts his aspersions 😈😆



The serials - both the Sagar ones in particular - IMO overdid it by showing Rama even as Manthara loving, and Manthara as repentant. Even in Valmiki, there is nothing about Rama going the extra mile to placate Kaikeyi, the way Yudisthir would do for Gandhari after the war. This attribution of mahan-ness is really annoying 🤔

In RSR, they did show RSL visit Valmiki @ Chitrakoot. Valmiki was very much a sage, and if his work is to be believed, all the Ramayan had already been written - he was just witnessing it live for those few days 😆 He would probably have spent much of the Treta Yuga in the anthill, and then emerged fully enlightened.

Incidentally, in which book does the story of Ratnakar/Valmiki first surface? It's definitely not in the Ramayan, or is it?


I actually don't mind Ram as Manthara-loving, because I blame Kaikeyi more than Manthara for the vanvaas. Sure Manthara may have incited her, but ultimately it was Kaikeyi who exiled Ram, not Manthara. It's Kaikeyi's fault that she had insecurities about her position in the household, despite the fact that she had a very secure and pampered life. Manthara was only a servant who was against Ram, but Kaikeyi did love Ram throughout his childhood, so Manthara influencing her is more her fault than Manthara's. So Ram "forgiving" Manthara is alright, since there is nothing to be forgiven IMO. Manthara did not exile Ram, Kaikeyi did.

Oh, I never knew that! Valmiki had already written Ramayan before it happened? I was under the impression that Valmiki wrote Ramayan after Ram, Sita and Lakshman returned to Ayodhya, and before Sita's vanvaas.

I don't think it's Valmiki Ramayan that Ratnakar's story is written. It's in another purana, can't remember which, but it's written in reference to someone telling someone else how one can elevate their status through devotion, like Valmiki, who was originally a thief of lower class, elevated himself to a sage through devotion.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
^^^ I don't know that I agree - Shatrughan did punish her for good reasons

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

It's interesting that in Valmiki, Ram is not all Kaikeyi-loving as serials and movies show. He actually criticizes her in the epic and points out her deeds as wrong and selfish. I wonder from which source serials get the Kaikeyi-loving Ram.



I'd think Tulsidas? I saw an extended ACK of Tulsidas' Ramayan, where those sympathies for Kaikeyi is clearly expressed by Rama. He's the one who happily projected his own sentiments onto Rama 👎🏼
Surya_krsnbhakt thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Ok this doubt is the biggest doubt of all!!!!
So I was going through Narayaniyam, and was reading when Krishna blessed Sairandhri (previously Trivakra), and there it is written, "Later, you blessed her with a son named Upashloka who was the disciple of Narada."
I mean, WHAAAT?
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Actually re-reading what Rama asked Lakshman to do - go back to Ayodhya to protect Kaushalya & Sumitra from Kaikeyi, one question struck me:
Rama didn't know at the time Dasharath was dead - in fact, Dasharath may not have been dead by then. So didn't Rama expect Dasharath to protect them, or did he think that Dasharath would be partial to Kaikeyi? And if it's the latter, how would Lakshman or any of the brothers protect them from Kaikeyi, if Dasharath himself is backing her? If he's neutral, then maybe.

Besides, Rama was pretty mindful of how bitter Dasharath was against Kaikeyi for exiling him, so that makes it even more surprising that he'd ask Lakshman to do anything of this sort, given that Dasharath, in his new mood, would if anything, support Kaushalya & Sumitra against Kaikeyi.
severus1 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
I have read that in Valmiki Ramayana, there was no agni pariksha and there was no story of Luv and Kush. IS this true?
Surya_krsnbhakt thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: severus1

I have read that in Valmiki Ramayana, there was no agni pariksha and there was no story of Luv and Kush. IS this true?

Nope... thats where the whole thing began!
severus1 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Surya_krsnbhakt

Nope... thats where the whole thing began!


Thanks for replying. So you are saying that Valmiki Ramayan starts with Agni pariksha?

I read that people first heard about this agni pariksha in the Tulsi Ramayan. And he obviously came much later like in the 16th century I think.

And that in the new copies of valmiki ramayan these things were inserted also. I plan to check out some old original manuscripts if I can lay my hands on them.
Surya_krsnbhakt thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: severus1

Thanks for replying. So you are saying that Valmiki Ramayan starts with Agni pariksha?

I read that people first heard about this agni pariksha in the Tulsi Ramayan. And he obviously came much later like in the 16th century I think.

And that in the new copies of valmiki ramayan these things were inserted also. I plan to check out some old original manuscripts if I can lay my hands on them.

No, I meant that the whole Agni Pariksha is actually there in Valmiki Ramayana. As for Lava and Kusha, the Ramayana starts with Valmiki calling Lava and Kusha and telling them to sing the Ramayana in all cities, mainly Ayodhya.

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