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Junoonian thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: Soaps1

Sahir is grey we all know that ... but he is not always wrong ... and i don't think he is wrong in breaking zaki arzoo marriage ... he used the last resort he had ... he did not want to (else he could fake report earlier too) but when it got out of hand he had no choice but to do what he did

Yes he is wrong in forcing her to marry him afterwards but the epi is yet to air I will reserve my judgement till i see but as far as stopping zaki arzoo marriage is concerned he did what needed to be done


He is definitely not always wrong. And his intentions are almost always right... and though his methods are extreme but somehow it seems like the most logical thing for someone like Sahir to do when he has been pushed against the wall.
Junoonian thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#22

Originally posted by: prettypri

Well well well talk about being on a roll! 😆This is an excellently articulated post...loved reading it!

Thank you 😳
Sahir is like no other character I have seen on TV...and definitely totally different from the usual heroes that grace our screen! He is grey..yes...with shades of black at times ...have to admit...but he is interesting because there is a reason behind all he does and he owns up to every action...not justifying it...not doing anything just because...and not driven purely by ego! His issue is as you have pointed out...lonely for seven years..labouring for a promise made to one he loved who betrayed him..not having anything or anyone else to care about...and no one cared about him either...However one thing is that inspite of that he has a basic caring nature that hasn't changed as evidenced by his care for all the so called family members of his! He wasn't yet ready to move on when Arzoo was forced into his life and he wasn't able to ignore the pull of attraction either...in the midst of that tug of war he was told By Zaki that she loved him and that meant the past and the future were hint lost to him...! That has seen him doing certain things that do not paint him very bright...and now I hope as you do that we have seen the worst and things improve from here on!
I definitely hope so Pri. I don't think they should paint his character blacker than they already have.
Oh and of course Harshad Chopda ...makes you watch and watch and watch...whatever Sahir is doing on screen his portrayal is so wonderful that you eyes are glued to him on the screen!
Arzoo...well...I have found her unrelatable for long ...for all the reasons you mention and then some😆.i have a faint hope that she would at some point try to understand Sahirs pain and see beyond his words..!
Seriously I hope so too. But I think we will have to wait for a very looong time for this.😭
Zaki...you said it all! No sympathy...! He should have remained a friend instead of being such an in your face third wheel!

Hoping the story focuses on the leads instead of trying to make the hero black and whitewash the third wheel!
Tell me about it! They are killing the love story by doing this.

Grumpydwarf24 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#23
The main problem I see with your argument is why is understanding and empathy always required from the girl's end? It should be required from both. Saahir is the least empathetic of all people or else he wouldnt be using them as pawns. If an effort needs to be made it should be from both ends. Arzoo's behavior is not out of the ordinary at all. Even many people on this forum who tried to be empathetic towards Saahir have given up on him and left once his behavior reached a limit of being heinous. It is a very natural reaction of now. Maybe she should have tried to understand him better before but than she has enough of her own responsibilities on her shoulders and Saahir really never gave her a real oppurtunity to come close. It was during the prem game he really opened up and even let her come close.

Nice write up btw.
Ecrivain thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#24

Jun gustakhi Maaf dear ...n Lol don't feel bad ..Ho JAATA hai...
Btw I wanted to ask u have u seen HC 's old shows or Gul 's show's earlier ones I mean ??
Junoonian thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#25
Junoonian thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: TaanuDeewani

Beautiful and heartfelt post. I agree with every point. Sahir is the only character that keeps getting me back to the show. And looks like that's the only character that has been well thought out. As much as I don't agree with what he does at times...just can't stay away from him for a long time.. 😳


Thank you Taanu 😊
And totally agree with above bold...😆
VD927 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: Junoonian

Now I would like to clarify that I am not condoning what Sahir is doing, especially the threat of setting the outhouse on fire ... though I feel the family is not in the outhouse and it is an empty threat... but either which way it is too much... very OTT and really pushes the envelope too far as far as Sahir's character goes. This threat really is scraping the bottom of the barrel and hopefully the CVs don't make him do anything worse.

But despite all this ... I understand the character. Maybe the writer has fleshed it out better than Arzoo n Zaki's or maybe HC is bringing his own talent and interpretation to the table... but I understand Sahir's motives. He is dark... he has in the last 7 years got used to having his way... he has suppressed his gentler self for so long that it is almost easy for him to out-think and manipulate the situation and people.

[Or maybe it is me... I have always liked the darker, twisted characters more... in fiction of course. And that is the point of fiction in my humble opinion. To be able to enjoy reading, watching and even enacting characters who we would never be or never want to be like in real life.]

Anyways, the point is that while I would normally feel bad for someone in Zaki's position, (and please I am only talking about characters here and not the actors... so none of this is personal) in this case I don't! I felt a twinge of sadness when I saw him sitting all alone and drinking after the SaaZ nikaah. But that was it! Why? Cause there is something amiss. That is the feeling I get. His rush to woo and propose and get married to Arzoo smacks of something underhand.

Is he really Sam's baby's father? I don't know. Doubt if the CVs know either. Is Sam really preggers? Again I don't know. But the way the character is being played out I feel the CVs are setting Zaki up to have quite a few hidden layers too and we will see over the coming episodes that he is not as open and honest as he is portraying himself to be.

Sahir on the other has never ever claimed to be an open book. So for me not only does he become the more interesting character but also the hero [But note to CVs - don't make him do anymore psychobaaz stuff please... much as I love Sahir, I can't justify the fire threat kind of stuff even to my dark-lord-loving-self].

Hopefully now that the nikaah is done, the CVs will not make him a tame, beeghi billi. I hope he continues to be the Sahir we all have got to know but without the psycho behaviour. I hope he continues to be clever and astute and capable of reading the situation and people. I hope he continues to have attitude. But yes, I also hope he learns to trust and express his love for Arzoo and re-learns to be happy.

Arzoo as a character is disappointing because she is not being explored properly by the writers and they are so inconsistent with her that you could make a fishing net with the loopholes available in her characterization. She is supposed to be self-respecting, but all her actions scream otherwise. She doesn't believe money is everything, but she is happily embracing Sahir's value point regarding love and money... for what?... to prove Sahir wrong!? How? By becoming like him! So how are you any different from him then... why judge him at all.

One can say that she is currently thinking in a cold manner, and due to her hatred she is only thinking from one point of view. Unfortunately her character has only been thinking from her POV from the beginning. Like I said no empathy! Cause if Sahir made Arzoo this... what made Sahir like this. I realise this is not a question Arzoo can ask off herself right now in her extremely distressed state, but it is the question she set out to find the answer to all those days ago when she moved in to NH. Arzoo has always been quick to judge and jump to conclusions. Black and white are her colours. No grey. And Sahir is all grey.

It doesn't make Arzoo wrong. Almost all girls in her position may run scared of the Sahir in their lives... but most girls hopefully will quit on understanding a guy after they have made decent effort at understanding him. Arzoo never made the effort except for asking once and then getting back on her high horse when he rebuffed her. She is also as egoistic as he is. But while we get to see him grappling with his own faults, we never see any self doubts or questioning in her.

So I find it difficult to empathize with her. I understand some of her decisions, while the rest (to stay on in NH, to agree to marry Zaki and then to marry Sahir) are all going over my head. But while I may understand her, I feel she is also responsible for her current situation. She doesn't practice what she preaches.

I am not saying the above flaws in Arzoo and Zaki, justifies Sahir manipulating the situation to marry Arzoo; cause who is he to decide whether Zaki's love is real or just a monumental infatuation or whether Arzoo will be happy or not with Zaki.

But, that is Sahir's character. Arzoo is his and he is not the sacrificing kind... THANK YOU GOD! I hate these Nirupa Roy type martyrs who are always bloody sacrificing and causing more confusion. Sahir is willing to do all that is required to hang on to his lady love. And he feels he is justified cause he knows that she loves him... no matter how mad she is at him right now... he is confident that he will be able to eventually get through to her. And that confidence is also a hallmark of Sahir.

His chink in the armour till date has been his waada. But now slowly, I see Arzoo becoming his weakness. And I think they will truly become Humsafars when they become each other's strengths.

PS1: This thought struck me the other day - Will the CD about the factory fire end up in Zaki's hand and will he use it against Sahir?

PS2: Nausheen should get the worst mother award. Alvira, Zara and Myra all resembled ostriches yesterday... but Nausheen was in a league of her own. She is like a horse with blinkers on!


Hey Junoonian - as promised this morning, i wanted to respond on some of your key points in bold

[Or maybe it is me... I have always liked the darker, twisted characters more... in fiction of course. And that is the point of fiction in my humble opinion. To be able to enjoy reading, watching and even enacting characters who we would never be or never want to be like in real life.]

This is a great point you make. This is indeed fiction and it is enjoyable to watch such extreme characters at work. If i think about shows like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, even someone like Darcy from Pride & Prejudice...they are full such dark characters and make for extremely compelling viewing. Taking Sahirs characterisation into account, he is a man of extremes and to see him have the audacity to go to these extremes is certainly a pleasure to watch. How many people follow their goals to the point of obsession? Very few, but the people that do, tend to be the ones that make it big against the odds. There are very often extreme repercussions as a result, but these kind of people are also willing to take on that pain to reach their end goal and that is exactly what Sahir has done and continues to do. It is this attitude that has helped him build Saiyyara to where it is today in a mere 7 years and it is also this attitude that may potential result in its downfall.
And with regards to Arzoo...its the same...his love for her is so deep, intense and passionate that he will go to any lengths to protect her. Currently, Arzoo is beyond the point of reason, After he told her he was married, nothing else seems to register with her, He knows her very well and he realised that unless he takes extreme steps with her, he will never be able to force her hand. Hence, we have been seeing what we have been seeing.

Your points on Arzoo's characterization is spot on...i believe what has happened is that the writers have slightly changed direction with her, hence this confusion and the inability for the audience to relate to her. Putting aside how she was sold to us in the early episodes, as i mentioned in one of my posts, she may have been strong in Lucknow, but she is simply out of her league now and her ego isn't allowing her to admit it to herself...hence we are seeing an extremely volatile Arzoo, so disillusioned with the reality around her that she has become incoherent and illogical. She has zero empathy and does only see Black and White. To understand SAC, she needs to see grey and this is what i think this story will be all about. With SAC, our expectations were well managed from day 1, hence we relate to him. With Arzoo, they haven't done as good a job, but i think that they are also trying to show a layered, imperfect person here as well now and we are supposed to be unable to empathise with her situation!

Now with regards her family...once again, i think they are trying to show reality here. Imagine a family, where all their lives they have struggled. And then they get to live at NH with all luxuries. In reality are people really that self righteous that they would leave it all to go and live on the street? Probably not...so here we see Zara and Myra today saying, you know what, we have been looked down on and pushed around all our lives...we don't want this anymore. And Nausheen...again, i think Arzoo is meant to have a weak mother figure...this lady has given ZERO guidance to her daughters and has been a weak weak role model...this has resulted in a disillusioned Arzoo, where she is realising all the 'kitabi' virtues her mother has taught her to follow, actually didn't prepare her in any way for the real world where she has entered and got a royal kick up the backside. And same goes for the sisters. This is why Arzoo is so rude to her mother...she is actually feeling bitter, why didn't her mother prepare her better for the real world? why didn't she teach her about all the grey that exists in this world? So i believe Nausheen's weak characterisation is intentional...in contract we have Alvira...a totally different persona. A strong mother figure who knows her mind very well.

Sorry for such a long response...but your great post really triggered a lot of thoughts in my mind!


Junoonian thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: VD927


Hey Junoonian - as promised this morning, i wanted to respond on some of your key points in bold
Hello VD!! Thanks for taking the time out to respond 😊
[Or maybe it is me... I have always liked the darker, twisted characters more... in fiction of course. And that is the point of fiction in my humble opinion. To be able to enjoy reading, watching and even enacting characters who we would never be or never want to be like in real life.]

This is a great point you make. This is indeed fiction and it is enjoyable to watch such extreme characters at work. If i think about shows like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, even someone like Darcy from Pride & Prejudice...they are full such dark characters and make for extremely compelling viewing. Taking Sahirs characterisation into account, he is a man of extremes and to see him have the audacity to go to these extremes is certainly a pleasure to watch. How many people follow their goals to the point of obsession? Very few, but the people that do, tend to be the ones that make it big against the odds. There are very often extreme repercussions as a result, but these kind of people are also willing to take on that pain to reach their end goal and that is exactly what Sahir has done and continues to do. It is this attitude that has helped him build Saiyyara to where it is today in a mere 7 years and it is also this attitude that may potential result in its downfall.
And with regards to Arzoo...its the same...his love for her is so deep, intense and passionate that he will go to any lengths to protect her. Currently, Arzoo is beyond the point of reason, After he told her he was married, nothing else seems to register with her, He knows her very well and he realised that unless he takes extreme steps with her, he will never be able to force her hand. Hence, we have been seeing what we have been seeing.
True... Sahir is a very driven and passionate man... be it his business or his love. And yes Arzoo is unfortunately not able to move beyond the betrayal. The heartbreak has truly broken her. Everything that has happened after that - the molestation, Zaki's proposal and her family's troubles are all added problems - but her heart and mind are stuck at that one moment in time when he tells her that he is already married and that the whole thing was a game to prove her to be a gold digger.
Sahir has definitely read her well. And at present he seems to be the only one with any clue as to how to help her and heal her... in the long run.
However I feel that even he does not realise how deeply and how badly hurt she is by his betrayal.

Your points on Arzoo's characterization is spot on...i believe what has happened is that the writers have slightly changed direction with her, hence this confusion and the inability for the audience to relate to her. Putting aside how she was sold to us in the early episodes, as i mentioned in one of my posts, she may have been strong in Lucknow, but she is simply out of her league now and her ego isn't allowing her to admit it to herself...hence we are seeing an extremely volatile Arzoo, so disillusioned with the reality around her that she has become incoherent and illogical. She has zero empathy and does only see Black and White. To understand SAC, she needs to see grey and this is what i think this story will be all about. With SAC, our expectations were well managed from day 1, hence we relate to him. With Arzoo, they haven't done as good a job, but i think that they are also trying to show a layered, imperfect person here as well now and we are supposed to be unable to empathise with her situation!
VD you hit the nail on the head. She is like someone who barely knows how to swim and is trying to keep her head above the water in turbulent seas. At the same time she is unwilling to scream for help. She has definitely become illogical... I mean I don't know if the writers wanted to show her as being incoherent and illogical or whether poor and lazy writing has resulted in this.

Now with regards her family...once again, i think they are trying to show reality here. Imagine a family, where all their lives they have struggled. And then they get to live at NH with all luxuries. In reality are people really that self righteous that they would leave it all to go and live on the street? Probably not...so here we see Zara and Myra today saying, you know what, we have been looked down on and pushed around all our lives...we don't want this anymore. And Nausheen...again, i think Arzoo is meant to have a weak mother figure...this lady has given ZERO guidance to her daughters and has been a weak weak role model...this has resulted in a disillusioned Arzoo, where she is realising all the 'kitabi' virtues her mother has taught her to follow, actually didn't prepare her in any way for the real world where she has entered and got a royal kick up the backside. And same goes for the sisters. This is why Arzoo is so rude to her mother...she is actually feeling bitter, why didn't her mother prepare her better for the real world? why didn't she teach her about all the grey that exists in this world? So i believe Nausheen's weak characterisation is intentional...in contract we have Alvira...a totally different persona. A strong mother figure who knows her mind very well.
Nausheen is that typical weak character that I can barely stand... actually I cannot stand such characters. They are plot progressors... the one's who exist purely to keep the plot moving forward and give everyone else stomach cramps and indigestion.
However the way they yesterday showed the extreme disconnect both sisters had with Arzoo was rather extreme. I realise it is to show that Arzoo was pushed slowly but surely to agree to be the second wife... but I would rather that they went slow with the story and took time to develop it than rush all the characters through these unrelatable leaps in personality change.
Sorry for such a long response...but your great post really triggered a lot of thoughts in my mind!
Please don't apologise. I love to read long responses... though I am personally rather bad at writing out long replies... usually cause others would have already stated the case and supported the cause I am supporting. 😆

farzy2910 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#29
Fabulous post. Agree with you completely
Arzoo's problem is that she doesn't see things realistically. Arzoo is still living in the 18th century somewhere. And like you said it is difficult to understand Arzoo because of the constant fluctuation in her character. They need to build her character the way they have done with Sahir's. And Arzoo needs to also learn to listen and understand...just listening does not help. I hope she takes a few moments somewhere in the future episodes to think about what Zara and Myra had said to her

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