Mental illness theory (Read at the risk of getting disappointed) - Page 12

Originally posted by: xfiles

But didn’t Sai tell UM yesterday that he chose some one else over me? So Paki is still an issue for her

Ok hope that point comes up.

They got JM to have some story in Kankavli and also to show that if he can become good , why can't she forgive P and P had also become good . Feel this discussion will also come up.

Today Jaffer sir put one pic of Virat s jeep/car.

Don't know if they shot the meeting today only.

Originally posted by: Sherry24

Brilliant one Sadhika!!!!

What an intricate eye for details and for delving into a different perspective. Just loved it ❤️

Thanks yaar! Please dont keep hopes. This is from KD again. There he did behave like this and RK had severe mental illness making her suicidal

I had skipped a few episodes except Sat and was only reading the updates and the precap. With work life so hectic and stressful, didn’t want to risk any mental bandwidth. But I went back to watch the episodes post your reading this and with a different perspective, which made it bearable. And all the scenes seemed so aligned when I watched with your outlook.

But is Vankar capable of pulling such a deep plot? If he can, then a fab job has been done all aspects and handling that split personality. If he can't......why are you not board instead of him????

Again, this is not something he is going to create. It is there in KD. But yeah he played it more intelligently here, over the period of 5 years. If this is what he planned to show, he did a good job however illogical it is.

Your perspectives rise from studying Virat's character, mine comes from the Karma cycle. While I may have asked you for the answers for some gaps in a normal scenario, but this one struck me, and I so want this to happen that I got down to business myself 😉. There is no way we can watch V with Sai without even a partial redemption. He is butchered completely at this point.

Yes I cant ship sairat if Virat married Pakhi. While it is his mistake that Sai went away, Pakhi is the catalyst. She caused so much trouble in Sai's life. No way he can marry her. If they show him marrying Pakhi, and still Sai getting back to him then it is even worse.

My catches were the word "Ajeeb" and "medicines". Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't know what medicines P is taking. Is that hint dropped to be connected later wrt her mental illness? And her bipolar behaviour could be something which has made Vinu not connect with her.

Yes thats what I believe. Look at how Virat misread her before that word 'Ajeeb'. The whole sequence, he could not gauge her. He lost balance. But when he thought she is in P1 mode, he casually uttered his mind voice, that it is ajeeb and WRONG, hoping that she will understand. But look at the shock on his face when she attacked him. Immediately, he tried to calm her down by saying "Mera matlab woh nahi tha". After that, he was standing like a rock and let her breakdown. The next episode I expected that he would not flinch a bit and she would come back into senses and it happened that way, giving me some confidence on the theroy.

And yes, with Vinu that could be the reason. See he never remembered her in the camp. Also when Virat was driving with his kids, Vinu was very vocal about the fights. He was worried for his father. So there is something this boy has observed and could not connect with Pakhi.

Coming to my "initial" gaps and their probable answers.

Fake marriage - How is it that P and the family believe it to be real then?

So P1 was in aligned with V and they didn’t really register the marriage. But P2 which is the delusional side believes they did considering her mental state. Family was not present during the court marriage. So the family believes it to be a real marriage. Hence the word ajeeb. Is Sunny the secret keeper?

Exactly. I think Vinu's adoption and the marriage are independent decisions by Virat. He would have come home saying they got married. The photo is only there in their room. But still there is a disconnect. When Ashwini said they are legally married, he nodded his head. Whether he did it on purpose to keep up the facade or it is real we have to see. Sunny or Pulkit could be the sercret keeper.

Ashwini and family's acceptance of P's illness - I don't believe the family would have agreed knowing P's condition. So it ought to be something which they are unaware of. They are only seeing the good side of P. And V is trying to work around it constantly to not trigger anything in family's presence

They know that she is taking some medicines. If you observe Pakhi - Ashiwini's conversation, P1 is clearly seen. She takes responsiblity of Sai's death. She is happy with her status quo. Only takes the name of virat in the end. she is troubled when ashwini asks her to move forward, because she knows it is not possible. We need more of P1 scenes. we have not seen her in that mode.

Virat is definitely not triggering her in their presence. Observe him during the first baby talk, he is more worried that they are talking like this which could trigger her. And that night she was in P2 mode when he entered the bedroom. Also if you observe BK, she was taken aback when Pakhi said they would like to concentrate on Vinayak. I dont have much insight there.

How can V forgive P? - A constant question that has been playing on my mind and I have mentioned a few times. He is functioning from a place of guilt. Where he feels he was the cause of P's state. Right from his promise to her before her marriage to making her the surrogate mother. But he has not been able to forgive her. I did make a comparison between Jagtap and P being the 2 evil people in Sai's life. So while Sai on humanitarian grounds treated Jagtap, V is doing the same with (Not getting into what is acceptable here). Sai acknowledges that Jagtap has changed, but she hasn't forgiven him. So she lets Savi have her own bond with him. Giving him that reward for it, but making it clear he is not forgiven. Similarly, V hasn't forgiven P. It is on humanitarian grounds. He is keeping P1 at a distance and not even considering her as a friend. With P2 he is acknowledging her condition and being considerate as a human being and being the person somewhere responsible for this state.

The P1 knows Virat will not forgive her. He doesnt interact with her much when she is in P1 mode. for example: when she enters their room when he was changing...and how he took the breakfast without speaking a word to her!! that is their status in reality. He is aloof with her. Even in the bedroom, in blue dress, after taking the medicine when she reminded him of Sai and Savi, he just goes away. Why would Pakhi remind him about Sai when she gets triggered by that name? So P1 knows the reality and that Virat can never forget Sai.

Interestingly Sai allows Jagtap to be around Savi, but wants to keep her away from V.

I have not seen KD and my limited knowledge is credited to the updates on the forum. Yet trying to attempt this point. Why did they deviate and bring in the P's mental illness after Sai and Virat's separation?

Good point yaar. See in KD, emon keeps suspecting him of infedelity. It gets repetitive, atleast for me. First during sruthi1, sruthi2 and then Pakhi. May be they dont want to show Sai like that here. Sai and Virat were at very good space thoughout surrogacy, i mean they were working as a team. Their physical relationship was also very strong. She was continuously susptected of pregnancy throughout that 9 months. And what a teamwork when they delivered the baby!! But they also showed how Virat was overriding her decisions. How she was taking it all. But she could not take it anymore when it came to her baby. Even after revealing Pakhi's motives, HE went and bailed her out. She did not suspect him of having feelings for Pakhi, but she was upset that he sidelined her happiness and her child's wellbeing. Sai was operating as a mother. I liked how they didnt show her suspecting his feelings for her. But now after separation, she will suspect him. Which is logical. I would suspect him if he had married the same woman who wronged them. The question wil arise in my mind that may be he always wanted Pakhi :). Sai will torture him now and I am so waiting for it.

They are trying to redeem V here and also save him that one fall of Rono. Rono was criticised for his actions for ignoring Emon during pregnancy. Here V was not aware of Sai's pregnancy. So while there will be guilt, for losing that time, the blame will not entirely lie with V. And like V is not Rono, ....Sai is not Emon. If she knew about P's illness she would have somewhere been more compassionate.

Yes in KD, Emon believes RK has mental illness. She lets him play husband for a while. But she was uncomfortable with the reason that ONLY Rono can provide her mental support. She keeps losing it at him, and finally when RK tells she is pregnant, she freaks out and leaves. Because Rono will be sometimes sleeping with her in their room.

Coming to the closures, repentance.....Karma giving its due.

I'm not sure how KD worked and how this will, but I want to see how this can be aligned with your perspective.

P's delusions, mental illness have not just been highlighted by us (in jest or real), and Sai (Virat's hospitalisation). But they indeed were laying the foundation. Unrequited love, broken promise, husband's death....

Yes, Pakhi has steady deterioation. By delivery time, she had post partum symptoms too. Later with Vinu's death and guilt of Sai's death, there are strong reasons she could be suicidal.

Now in all this all it seems like V will again be hailed as "Mahaan" like SH track. While I do agree Sai was at fault there, but V had mistakes in his kitty too. But here while Sai may have been impulsive, coming from a place of fear and safety of her baby, V had wronged her. So where does that get Sai at?

Yes, while I more and more connect with Sai's fears as mother, I do have concerns with her love towards Virat. her anger masked her love. May be she did not think about the possiblity that he might have assumed her dead. She didnt believe it is a big accident. Or she was saving herself from one more heartbreak when virat blames her for the baby's death and take away the second one also from her. She was operation totally as a mother not as a wife. otherwise, she would have thought about Virat's heart breaking if he assumes her to be dead. I think this thought never crossed her mind. So when Virat says he assumed her to be dead, she will repent. But before that if Pakhi's thing is out, she might not consider his words and keep accusing him. I want the latter to happen. 😆

A question that Nutty had asked sometime back. Would Sai have forgiven V if he had gone after her? Maybe, maybe not. But the things that were said had a very deep impact on Sai. So much so that Sai was questioning the authenticity of their marriage...his love for her. And where words fail actions have to pave way. So while there will be lots of trails and tribulations, this will prove to Sai that he loves her and even death can change that. While Sai trusted V, she doubted P's capability in manipulating V. Here, she will also realise, that he learnt his lesson, and even in manipulation he will not fall for P.

Yes Sai would have forgiven him if he had gone back. They had a bad spat and words were terrible but they would have made it up over the days. See the biggest insecurity of Emon in KD is that she was not his first choice. She was not emotionally compatible for him. She always doubted his love for her till the end. Thats why the last dialogue from RK's mouth is so important. That he always loved her only. Thats why I cant believe Virat had married Pakhi. They have to show that Virat's love for Sai will withstand death also. Only then she will completely feel secure in his love. Exactly, you stole the words from my mouth. They are showing that Pakhi's emotional state is not having an inch of effect on Virat. Look at how he stood like a rock when she was breaking down and crying. Previous Virat would have fallen into her trap right away. Nirjal vrat, her crying and her taking care of his family nothing will change him. I wish they show it like this.

Coming to V. We have only seen V's guilt. No reflection. Maybe that has happened or will happen when there is another face off. Not just of surrogacy, but also SH track. V is only capable of seeing Sai's physical pain and not her emotional one. The fact that even the strongest need that support, and it is upto the partner to understand and lend it. Since such people never show their needy side. The hurt his words had caused Sai, the fear and lack of trust his actions had induced in Sai has to be understood by him. His actions, his faults. V's major punishment comes in the form that he missed Sai's pregnancy, Savi's birth and the X years of her life. He can never ave them back. But he will now also bear the consequences of his actions before leap. Here he has not factored in the fact that Sai could be alive. But in complicates things for him. Having his daughter and wife in front of him and yet not being able to be with them, will be his punishment. His ordeal in trying to win them over, while everything falls apart. The result of his decisions. Savi will become the flag bearer. He has seen her longing for her father. While he may be upset with Sai, he will be guilty of bringing this upon his daughter. Though this is his core character, but while he keepws the truth away from Sai and P and Chavans, the outburst it will cause, will be his lesson not to stall everything.

I think Virat's redemption can be shown in his actions. Like you said, he will never fall for Pakhi's manipulation. And he adopted an orphan and gave his unconditional love for the words he had spoken to Sai. Not sure if they show it that way. His redemption at the words is his love towards vinu. And his obsession for child has pushed him to make the biggest mistake after vaada, the surrogacy. Now he could not enjoy his child's birth. So yeah, if he had really repented he would not be mad at Sai for long. He will be angry because she hid her presence, which costed his mental peace. But he should understand her more now.

P we have discussed. She has everything, yet she will not have anything. Her delusions will get cleared when she knows that even after death, V never stopped loving Sai. And he always meant what he said, he can never love her or anyone else.. because he only loves Sai.

The P1 knows it, she is repenting I think. But if Sai comes before P2 is cured and distrupts the pretence then Pakhi can be stuck in P2 mode. If they want her to be negative, they can show it like this. Also, Virat will stick to Pakhi till she recovers which will play wedge between SaiRat. Virat will not give upon his duty so easily :D

But in all this where is the family? BK, Ashwini and the others..who have and will continue their mistake streak. P has to get darker. Hence, P2 will have to become dominant. This will happen when Sai returns. So while initially everyone might empathise and support her, seeing V's pull towards Sai, P2 will take over from the loving P1. And she will cause harm. This is when Chavans will see the magnitude of the evil they had nurtured and unleashed. Seeing the aggressive and evil side of P will tell them that the old P still exists. And they are guilty of encouraging her and making them all go through this. BK allowing P to be surrogate started this. Ashwini, forcing her on her son, and badmouthing Sai. They will also realise the threat that Sai and Savi would have been under if Sai had stayed back.

That is what i am not understanding. How did they forgive Pakhi. May be when virat married her, they assumed it will be good for the family? Ashwini will see Virat recovering from depression after Vinu came,, so she is happy with Pakhi. P1 also might be showing up now and then, so they accpeted her. Now she wants s*x life for his son so she is pushing him more

The point is Chavans thought that they would be able to resolve the problem within CN. They believed that they can school P and they had already fallen for her tears. So if Sai had stayed P would have played her game again. And could have caused more damage. Now they will see what P is capable of and how they were wrong about P and how they had wronged Sai.

Yes they all fell for P2. This also adds on to Virat's character. Everyone but him fell for P2 :) His loyalty to Sai will be shown clearly.

That will be Karma full circle.. provided they are intending on it.

I'm counting on your prediction to keep this watchable ❤️

Sherry, this is the only way they could save Virat for Sai. And this is there in KD. So I am hoping they will take the track this way. Otherwise, I cant see Sai going back to him. She should just get her kids and be happy as a single mom.

Letting go of things for her delusions cant be to the extent of getting married and co parenting na... she needs treatment or institutionalizing. its also not like PP has no immediate family to handle her. she has parents who can manage her. why does he feel compelled to constantly go overboard with his so called social service? it seems like he can never be rational or measured in his response to any problem. and to what end did he plan to continue his "samjhauta" marriage- lifelong?! and how is it possible that no one except V is aware of her mental illness....and if others are also aware of her mental illness then why are they pushing for V to go on honeymoon and get all husband like with her....if they know that the marriage was done for her mental health reasons then they shouldnt be pushing him to move on with pp. Ek bahu ke criminal deeds are also overlooked and for Sai- no one even wants to remember her good deeds fondly. its just too cruel

PP did her criminal deeds in full awareness, so even if she became crazy now, when she wronged Sai it was when she was "normal". so how is everyone so cool with her....Sai literally has paid with her and Vinu's life in CN eyes because pp made her life hell and yet they are potentially moving heaven and hell to enable her delusions?! how is that fair....

is Sai worth so little in their eyes that her death also has them unmoved and they can forgive Sai's culprit ?

PP has faked depression/suicide too, so its very much possible for her to fake again...yet everyone thinks she is reformed and mahaan.

also why does V owe PP anything? He has always behaved as if he is also a victim of her manipulation as well. so why would he feel the need to take her responsibility. instead he should feel betrayed and cheated by her and keep her far away...

Why does he have a soft corner for pp even after knowing that she is indirectly responsible for Sai's DEATH. in a sense PP's actions and him bailing PP is the reason he lost Sai so apart from his own guilt he should blame PP but we have never seen that in his body language...

even when he agreed to the trip, he should have asked to take Vinu along then and make it a family holiday....why would he agree to go on a "honeymoon" even if it is just to enable delusions.

I cant understand what more needs to happen for V to just say- I cannot stand this woman anywhere in my life and she needs to leave. He has asked Sai to get out of his life more than once but never once said that to PP. I really dont understand ki aisa kya hi bonding hai with her that he feels directly responsible for her and allows her to exercise her haq on him.

It will be really insulting if he reconciles with Sai only after PP "frees" him to do so....that means he needs PP to be ok and PP approval in order to stand by his wife, his so-called love.

She has also cheated his brother Sam throughout till his death. Why does no one ever have that realization. Even after his return Sam never got love and companionship because PP was planning and plotting. he was the son of the house, his brother- his confidant, his jeeva- PP has wronged the 2 most important people in is life, yet he feels obliged to be with her, care for her etc

He can fund her treatment costs and be involved but not at the cost of giving Sai's place in his life to her. its not fair to Sai's memory even if Sai was really dead.

There's something else why this theory should work out.

From my understanding of KD (which I have only read about on this forum) and ghum... I guess everyone agrees that P is not Rupkotha. She had certain class, sense and sensibility. Whereas P more often than not comes across as stupid and delusional.

P was extremely obsessive about V even though as per Ghum timeline it was 5-6 years. RK got over her obsession around 2nd year of Emon. P didn't.

With Ghum for reasons known to them, they have made a messier plot.

First by making P as surrogate and then keeping Sai away from all that. I believe that the IBF complaints worked and they finished the crap quickly.

And then getting V-P married (fake or real is not a question for this... officially they pose as spouses)

But by simply making P a victim would not suit the higher purpose. Her crime was bailable and she was out. Whether her parents did that or CN gang is slightly inconsequential to the plot (hear me out on this).

She would still meddle or CN gang would have brought her after some time.

The logical and proper end to P ka character thus would be her death. There were ways to do it but then she and other CN members wouldn't have realized their mistakes.

Makers have entangled P too much in Sairats life and so either her going away willingly or her death will free them from her clutches forever.

P1 recognizes this and says 'I got everything yet nothing' but she still hasn't learnt her lesson that it is her mistakes that have caused so much pain to the one person she claims she loves still. That she will realize only when she sees Sai. So she wont go willingly. I feel a fake pregnancy might be a last card she will play to keep V with her.

But her illness is finally Karma being delivered to her ...since we, Ghum FD, Sai and V are mere mortals who could not punish her. Her death will finally free everyone.

It is an easy way out by making her ill and not giving much accountability to her actions but it also might be a lesson to the stupid CNwasis and V who might finally have some realisation of this fact.

As crude as it may sound, even if they keep her alive, only a mental illness will make BK keep her away from the house and SaiRat. She will be relegated to being another Devyani, now that her usability is over. 😔

And that they kept hoping for a shine from a coal when they already had a diamond.

Her illness and subsequent death/asylum might be "kuch nahi se acchha yahi sahi".

This might be finally a poetic end to all the stupid mistakes done by the makers and characters right from the surrogacy crap. A redemption of sorts.

My views are quite coinciding with yours.

Karma has to finish her. Nobody else can..

Originally posted by: Moor278

There's something else why this theory should work out.

From my understanding of KD (which I have only read about on this forum) and ghum... I guess everyone agrees that P is not Rupkotha. She had certain class, sense and sensibility. Whereas P more often than not comes across as stupid and delusional.

P was extremely obsessive about V even though as per Ghum timeline it was 5-6 years. RK got over her obsession around 2nd year of Emon. P didn't.

With Ghum for reasons known to them, they have made a messier plot.

First by making P as surrogate and then keeping Sai away from all that. I believe that the IBF complaints worked and they finished the crap quickly.

And then getting V-P married (fake or real is not a question for this... officially they pose as spouses)

But by simply making P a victim would not suit the higher purpose. Her crime was bailable and she was out. Whether her parents did that or CN gang is slightly inconsequential to the plot (hear me out on this).

She would still meddle or CN gang would have brought her after some time.

The logical and proper end to P ka character thus would be her death. There were ways to do it but then she and other CN members wouldn't have realized their mistakes.

Makers have entangled P too much in Sairats life and so either her going away willingly or her death will free them from her clutches forever.

P1 recognizes this and says 'I got everything yet nothing' but she still hasn't learnt her lesson that it is her mistakes that have caused so much pain to the one person she claims she loves still. That she will realize only when she sees Sai. So she wont go willingly. I feel a fake pregnancy might be a last card she will play to keep V with her.

But her illness is finally Karma being delivered to her ...since we, Ghum FD, Sai and V are mere mortals who could not punish her. Her death will finally free everyone.

It is an easy way out by making her ill and not giving much accountability to her actions but it also might be a lesson to the stupid CNwasis and V who might finally have some realisation of this fact.

And that they kept hoping for a shine from a coal when they already had a diamond.

Her illness and subsequent death/asylum might be "kuch nahi se acchha yahi sahi".

This might be finally a poetic end to all the stupid mistakes done by the makers and characters right from the surrogacy crap. A redemption of sorts.

Yes, P2 tranforming to P1 and coming to terms with Virat's reality is the closure for Pakhi. I would like this instead of her death. She has to move on....understand life as it is.

Virat's realization/growth is that he will not fall for Pakhi's manipulation even if she is the last miserable woman on the earth, like Sherry said this is his learning from the separation.

Sai's realization that even after her kaands, she will be the person who Virat always loved. He will accept her inspite of everything going wrong in their life.

Today we have to see how P1 behaves. I think she is the one talking in the promo. If she is P1, she will not offer to come along with father-son duo. But virat, under euphoria might ask her to come. And P2 might think of it as a signal. :D

Virat is not as intelligent as Sai, that is for sure . The guy has only brawn no brains.

Originally posted by: sadiltl

Yes, P2 tranforming to P1 and coming to terms with Virat's reality is the closure for Pakhi. I would like this instead of her death. She has to move on....understand life as it is.

Virat's realization/growth is that he will not fall for Pakhi's manipulation even if she is the last miserable woman on the earth, like Sherry said this is his learning from the separation.

Sai's realization that even after her kaands, she will be the person who Virat always loved. He will accept her inspite of everything going wrong in their life.

One question.

Does Pakhi know that Virat has not yet seen the doctor? And seen only Savi.