Dharmakshetra :) - Page 23

Also what is Keshav saying? Only Sahdev and G knew war was inevitable?😲 What happened to Panchali?😲

OK my review

Hi, all

Originally posted by: AnuMP

Not just the war Sabhayata. The whole thing. Why did he start the ball rolling? There is a Yadava domination theory out there which says that he wanted to put all Yadavas in power. Its there on Boloji

Am saying thats impossible because he couldnt have known. Not unless the author is somehow imagining that G engineered the DS and the assault on Panchali😆. Also his entire army fighting on the other side got killed. How is that Yadava prosperity? Not only that though KMG says Pradyumna went along with BalaRama to the Pandava camp, it only says BalaRama returned. So G's son was fighting for them. Would he not be in danger? Again, how could he guarantee that Uttara would have a son? If a daughter could have continued the Yadava line, all he needed to do was to marry one of his daughters to Dury's son.

Land is an unbelievable reason for G to go to war. I mean, if you are looking at a non-divine explanation. Why would he allow his army to fight for the other side in that case? My feeling is that the Yadavas refused to fight for the Ps. Then why in the world would G go along if it was just for land.

As for Ju's friendship, I would say if KK was an example of that friendship, Ju could have done without it.

What some see as keeping Yadav as safe, I see as Yadav as refusing to fight for Ps and G defying that consensus and in fact TALKING Arjun into it. I would even say Ju fought for G, not the other way around

Re: peace proposal. BEFORE he goes, he promises Panchali, all those involved in the assault would die. I differ strongly with my fav author here😆. I don't think he went on that trip intending to avoid war

Re: Greeks. I have some links on page 24

hmmm ball rolling for what all events in MB?i dont think so

the seeds of this war were sowed long before krishna ji came into the picture.It was sowed in the enmity between pandvas and kaurvas from childhood to adulthood .Krishna ji had no role to play in that.

like i said if we look at krishna ji with a non divine POv then he was just merely helping his cousins nothing more than that.He only comes into picture again and again when pandavas need help or guidance whether its to start Rajsuya yajna or its at kamyaka van or later in Udyoga parva once pandvas are done with their exile

And this is something he even says himself in even in Kamyaka van he tells Yudi that as soon as he hear about their distress he came then again in Udyoga parva he tells everyone that pandvas were deceitfully robbed of their kingdom and now they have fulfilled the exile terms hence should get back what rightfully belongs to them

He is just trying to help his cousins whom he feels have been wronged in getingt back what was rightfully their's and this is something he says himslef again and again

Only towards the end he also says that pandavas prosperity is linked to their's .Which could also have been one of the reasons in his mind not Yadava dominance as such but his general family advancement in case pandvas won.May be he thought that he could ask for favours from yudi for all help he provided.You know if two allies in a war win then both benefit from each other its a normal war thing

But all other times he is merely looking to help his cousins whom he feels have been wronged .This is just the non divine POV

But i dont think Geeta gyan and the reincarnation stories along with the promise to Bhoomi devi can just be ignored since they are part of the text.SO taking divinity into the equation along with the promise made to Bhumi devi to that her burden will be reduced Krishna ji definatley had a greator purpose.Now how that purpose in terms of the promise made to Bhoomi devi is interpreted is i guess is different for all

Regarding the peace proposal and what he says to panchali the thing is we have to see the sequence of events.Pandvas had already sent the peace proposal to Kaurvas twice once through Drupad's envoy and second through sanjaya where they asked for 5 villages for first time and both were rejected by this time even Krishna ji knew war was inevitable.Infact before saying this to panchali he even says to Yudi that war is inevitable now that he doesn't think Dury will accept the proposal.But he is willing to go as Yudi asks him to and because he thinks by going they will escape the blame of the war.In short by this point after two peace proposals are rejected he knows dury will not agree he even rebukes Bhima for talking about peace and also tells Arjuan as per him war is a certainty .Krishan ji doesn't do anything to get the proposal rejected that is my point he knew that it would happen since Dury had already rejected it twice

Regarding the Greek thing i read the links in your previous posts but didnt see where it was written that Yavana meant greeks or may be i missed something

the five villege, hmm, tactical advantege pandovon ko miltaa agaar woh mil jaate toh.

Thanks everyone for updates

seems like another highly distorted episode with no research done

they just made up stuff to accuse Nak-sah

Because there was nothing to accuse them of

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

I am considering that reason only because I dont find another reason right now. Though I have an unclear idea that Krishna supported the war only for the sake of Yadavas because it was Krishna's greatgrandson Vajra who finally ruled HP & only Yadavas (though said to have been completely destroyed) flourished and became the most powerful in spite of Kurus being the winners of MB war, I don't know how true it is as I have not read MB completely. I have read a quote from CE in a boloji article which says like "Krishna silenced Balarama who questioned the immoral attack on Dury, by saying killing Dury was for the Sake of Yadavas only". Since I have not read that part in CE yet, I am uncertain about its credibility. If true, Krishna had something else in his mind which was for the good of Yadavas & possible mostly through Dury's death.

This is what he says in CE which is similar to KMG.He talks about both how their prosperity is linked with pandavas and also how they are tied with pandavas with bonds of affection and how pandavas have been wronged.So i guess all these were the reasons why he helped pandvas if we see from non divine POV

To pacify the angry one, Keshava said, One can have six kinds of prosperity" one's own prosperity, the prosperity of friends, the decay of enemies, the decay of the friends of enemies, the decay of the friends of friends of enemies and the prosperity of the enemies of enemies.42 When there are reversals to one's own self or that of friends, the learned know that one should quickly strive for peace. The Pandavas are pure men and are our natural friends. They are the sons of our father's sister.43 They have been severely oppressed by the enemy. The accomplishment of a vow is the dharma of kshatriyas. Earlier, in the assembly hall, Bhima had taken the pledge that in a great battle, he would shatter Suyodhana's thighs with a club. O scorcher of enemies! Earlier, maharshi Maitreya had cursed him that his thighs would be shattered by Bhima with a club.44 O slayer of Pralamba!45 Therefore, I do not see a transgression. Do not be angry. Our alliance with the Pandavas is based on birth and bonds of affection. Their prosperity is our prosperity. O bull among men! Therefore, do not be angry.'

@Sabhayata Monier Williams says one of the meanings of Yavana is Greek.

Meanings of Yavana in Sanskrit

(H1) 1 [p=848,1] [L=170771]	mfn. ( 1. ) keeping away , averting ( -/).
(H1) 2[L=170772]	n. ( 2. ) mixing , mingling (esp. with water) Nya1yam.
(H1) 3[L=170773]	mfn. quick , swift
(H1B) 3[L=170774]	m. a swift horse L. (prob. w.r. for ).
(H1) 4[L=170776]	w.r. for Mn. vii , 41.
(H1) 5[L=170777]	m. an Ionian , Greek (or a king of the Greeks gaRa">g. * ; in later times also a Muhammadan or European , any foreigner or barbarian) Mn. MBh. &c
[L=170778]	N. of a caste Gaut. (accord. to L. " the legitimate son of a and a " or " an who is an elephant catcher ") of a country (= - , sometimes applied to Ionia , Greece , Bactria , and more recently to Arabia) W.
[L=170779]	wheat L.
[L=170780]	a carrot L.
[L=170781]	olibanum L.
[L=170782]	pl. the Ionians , Greeks (esp. the Greek astrologers) MBh. VarBr2S. &c
[L=170783]	N. of a dynasty Pur.
(H1B) 5[L=170785]	f. = , a curtain L.
(H1B) 5[L=170786]	n. salt from saline soil L.

so, who was kaalyavan actualy?