And I'm back to Viraj...again

Originally posted by: Elysia

Hi, Rova. Loved reading your post 😳 My two cents.

There are points on which I agree and points on which I disagree. I'll try to be clear, but unfortunately I don't have the kind of writing skills that you do, so it'll probably sound like crap 😕 🤢

Yes. Viraj is an intriguing and complex character. No doubt about that. Whatever he went through in relation to his father was unfortunate, out of his own hands. I don't doubt that whatever traumatic childhood he had left its mark on him -- a bitter one, too. I can understand the fear that his father instilled in him as a child.

But Viraj is no longer a young, helpless boy. He's a man now and every choice that he makes is his own. No one abuses him now. The thing is that, in spite of what he went through with his father, Viraj ended up in a good home with loving parents. He had it better than most kids who are born into an abusive home. His foster parents did not, at any point, damage him. They tried to heal him.

Yet even as a child, he showed signs of an uncanny ability to manipulate. A calculative behavior. Children can be cruel. We all know this. Viraj was cruel as a child. He's evil as a grown man. There was one point, while watching the show from the start, where I refused to call Viraj out for what he was. I discussed it with my sister, telling her that he was just sick and he'd had a troubled childhood, etc. But in the end, it can't be falsified that Viraj is evil. He's a black character now. He succumbed entirely to that darkness a long time before he raped Jahnvi. There was never any real hope for him.

A man who doesn't want to change -- even though he knows that what he does is very wrong, that he hurts people intentionally, that he enjoys it. But the remorse is never there. The realization, the regret is never there. He has no conscience. I cannot and will never sympathize with a black character -- I can never sympathize with evil. It'd be wrong. No matter how intriguing I find him. No matter how much I understand his childhood experiences. His present actions and his future actions aren't carved into stone. He has a free will. He has an intellect. He can reflect and understand. But he chooses to do wrong, to do evil -- and for that alone I condemn him.

Then there's the whole issue of what he's done to Jahnvi, to people who simply came in touch with Jahnvi -- or him, for that matter -- and what he continues to do.

I think that digging into a black character's past and creating sympathy for him is a dangerous thing. Why? Because the kind of men who worship Viraj, see him as a role model, will only find justification for his actions within the horrors of his childhood. They won't be able to reflect over it and conclude that his past doesn't determine his future -- doesn't control his hands when they torture, rape, kill. Doesn't even control his mind when he plots and calculates and manipulates.

They might be part of the reason why he's a perfectionist, bitter, angry, etc. But he can never blame what he does now on what happened to him then. It's equal to simply shedding himself of all responsibility for his actions and saying: "I have no free will." Determinism. And I don't believe in determinism. Imagine a world where every single rapist, paedophile, or killer walked around saying: "Can't help it. I have no free will."

I feel like the writers will have to be careful as to how they portray Viraj and what more they decide to reveal about his past. I'm curious, yes. I'm curious about what his father did, whether he's alive still. I'm curious about whether Viraj is somehow responsible for his foster parents' death as he was responsible for his foster sister ending up at the asylum.

But to be honest, 110 episodes into the show and I felt like Viraj's story had been a focus point long enough. Complex, yes. Intriguing, yes. I mean, I used to watch shows like Dexter, Criminal Minds, etc., because characters like Viraj intrigue me. But... I don't know. I just feel like the CVs have shown us enough of Viraj's tortured past to last me for a while now. I know enough of Viraj to understand what kind of man he is now and that's all that really matters to me. All that should matter. Because as much as his past might've kickstarted things in him that would've been better off if they had stayed dormant, it doesn't change what kind of evil is in him.

I want the writers to move on with his character. To call him out for what he is. So that people no longer justify his cruelty, no longer worship or glorify him. So that it isn't Jahnvi who's condemned, but Viraj for abusing her.

Rova, I have disagree that he can't fix his wrong. Because that's saying he has none control, whatsoever, over his own actions -- and that would be a lie. He doesn't want to fix his wrongs. Because he enjoys doing wrong. There isn't an ounce of regret in him and, to be honest, his character was built this way. Unredeemable. If the writers suddenly decide to switch tracks in the future, it'll be a huge mistake on their front.

They've triggered a lot of issues here. Domestic violence, rape, murder, OCPD, and also religious issues -- Viraj as Raavan, Viraj challenging God, Viraj playing God. The moral and ethical messages must be clear and good must win in the end. Because we aren't the only ones who watch the show. Victims do as well. Abusive men do as well. And potential Virajs do as well. There's too much at stake.

Frankly, I'm relieved that they're not digging in Viraj's past -- for now. The focus is on who he is now. What he's capable of.

Rova, I don't think that Viraj can ever truly love anyone but himself. I don't believe that his character was built for redemption or sympathy. I don't know why the CVs tried to create sympathy for him during the track about his past. I never bought it.

I do want all the questions answered, but I don't want the writers to present it as a justification for his character now. There's no justification for evil. There never will be. No matter how traumatic anyone's childhood is. Children are abused every day -- in the most cruel ways imaginable. But that doesn't mean they have the right to exercise that same cruelty upon others when they grow up -- no matter who instilled what in them, you know? :/

Originally posted by: Aya.

Beautiful Post !

I agree with you 100% !

This is what we've all been waiting for .

An answer about what happened in Viraj's past which the CV's never ever bothered to show, but I do have a feeling that they will show it to us soon . & I hope they do !

I also believe everything he's done, it's because of his father .

I've also noticed that whenever someone brings up things about his past, he just shows this weird emotion . I'd also like to add that Geeta said when Viraj was with her, he was normal, but when he lived with his dad, he became like him . So, I'm sure his dad must have taught him all these things .

Originally posted by: mysticgoryfilms

Petrova, first of all, you are one member whose posts I always enjoy reading. This is a brilliant topic you've made. Aww thank you! Once I start, I can't stop, so I'm glad I can entertain instead of boring you😆

Truer words have never been spoken about Viraj and his character.

Viraj is the most interesting character on this show. You can analyze him for pages and pages with the many different layers he has been given. And I want to thank the CVs for creating such a complex and unique character. I agree with you about the days when he faked he was getting treated. I can't tell you how horrible it was to see the day when I found out it was all a lie.This time I KNEW he was faking because I was rewatching the episodes but still part of me wanted to still believe is it all true. It's the same feeling Janvi must have gotten - she knew how he is and that he can never change but the relationship for the first time had become so loving and violence-free that why would she want to tell herself it is all a lie. Along with Jhanvi, even I felt devastated. Only because Viraj actually looked like he was getting better. The smile on Jhanvi's face and the masti they had (the pillow fight being a personal favorite) was very, very sweet. Omg I didn't allude to it specifically but the pillow fight has been one of the cutest scenes Viraj-Janvi have shared. There has never been a light, playful moment between them that hasn't come crashing down because of Viraj losing his temper

And then it all ended. In a single moment. God, how horrible was it to find out it was all a lie? I truly felt for Jhanvi there.When the NGO people walked out on Janvi and Viraj was back to being who he is, I was devastated! Janvi literally begging them to arrest him because he beats her Tore at my heart because what was to come would be much worse.

Even in regards to this memory loss track. Like the treatment track, I'm convinced he has memory loss. Viraj is capable of anything. And him faking it is totally possible. But just the way Viraj is being shown - or the way KB is portraying him, they all seem to point towards an actual amnesia case. How does he do it? Even if it does turn out to be he's faking it, how is he able to convince us all? I'm sure we all have been convinced at least for a second that he has memory loss. Seriously, there is something very captivating about Viraj. One always tends to go back to him when talking about the show. I can never overappreciate what KVB has done with this character because seriously no matter how much you praise him, it's not enough. When he wants to convince you he lost his memory, you can even look at his eyes and they will seem completely blank as if he truly is lost and doesn't remember a thing. Part of why I don't want to believe he truly has lost his memory is because of the depth of the belief I had that Viraj was changing when he agreed to being treatment. Like I said, Dr. K put him in situations that bothered him and he controlled himself which to me says he can pretend to be whatever he desires and he WILL fool whoever he wants. If it turns out to be actual amnesia, then I really don't know how to feel about that. Seems like Viraj has broken everyone's trust in him too many times - I, for one, can never believe him again.

As for his past and his actual treatment track, I would really really like to see it happen. According to Sanjog, the person who supervises SB, they have not forgotten about his past. I hope that's not just another case of "All talk and no action". His past can do wonders to the show in so many ways. So many layers one can explore and analyze. It's a very interesting track to look forward to if it is going to happen. And Viraj has to get treated. It will be complete injustice to see him roaming around like that without getting treatment. Get the treatment. Since the CVs have brought up two issues in the show - domestic violence and OCPD, I would love to see some light in the tunnel for Viraj as well. I hope they do too. I don't necessarily want his character to be killed off because that's the easy way out to get rid of the villain. But at the same time if he were to be treated, I still wouldn't side with Janvi going back to him - he has hurt her too much for her to ever be on his side again. The most we can get out of his treatment is the assurance that his evil has been put to an end and that no one else will suffer at his hands. But I still feel like they left a lot of loose threads hanging - his past, his belief he is God/his challenge to God, his OCPD, his ability to believe he is perfect despite being aware of his wrongful actions...just a captivating yet confusing character overall. Just please don't ruin it CVs - I still feel they should have kept him as a grey character but now, he is just dark - there is no redemption for what he has done.

Thanks for this post. Enjoyed reading it. :)

Originally posted by: petrova-fire

Ok, first - shut up with saying you can't write as well as me. I mean just read your damn response, so meticulously written and completely agreed! You've left me speechless 👏

Some things I do want to say though - its true that CVs had tons of time - like you said a 100 and something episodes to delve deeper into Viraj but they used that time just to show his evil and one single episode to reveal his past (the details of which like whether he killed his foster parents are still unclear)

And by being curious about his character, I didn't mean to imply that if his childhood has left a mark on him, his actions are justified. No, that's not possible anymore. He has crossed too many lines, broken her trust too many times, physically and mentally traumatized her too much to ever be able to redeem himself. Nothing he can ever do , no good deed, will ever match up to what evil he has committed. The most he can do for her is to let her go NOW, to realize he is wrong and want to change but that will never happen and that would not erase what he has done so in the end, what he has done is completely unjustified and unforgivable so just want to clarify that me trying to understand his mentality has nothing to do with me wanting to erase his dark deeds.

I just really want to know what drives his manipulation - why can't he feel? How can he repeatedly go on committing so much evil and be fully aware of it and NOT want to stop? Especially knowing that he is possibly been a victim of similar abuse. Its kind of like the logic how some doctors have endured some kind of disease in their childhood and they grow up to be doctors just so that no one would have to go through that pain again or they can help at least - because trauma does that. It makes you want to stop other people from ever having to endure the same suffering as you but what caused Viraj to walk the complete opposite way? To want to be the same man that scarred him - to bring that pain to so many others. What pleasure does he get from this?

In the end, yes, he is evil, no doubt about it. There is no redemption and no forgiveness for his deeds. But that curiosity of WHY never goes away.

Damn you Karanvir for getting me so involved with Viraj - he makes him so real right down to the eye expressions! 👏

Originally posted by: petrova-fire

After everything that happens, no matter how many twists and turns the CVs bring in or how many new characters make an entry - something always brings me back to understanding Viraj. Why? Because the CVs made him too intriguing and then came up with this vague past blurted out in one episode and that too with too many holes.

Here all of us are now trying to figure out if he is faking his memory loss or could it really be true? Could THE Viraj Dobriyal actually forget who he is? Could he forget his "jaan"? Personally, I am convinced he is faking it and that lead me to watch those episodes in the middle when Viraj agreed to getting treated. When those episodes first aired and even now when I know he faked it, while watching the episode Viraj STILL manages to convince me that he is truly changing. Whatever ray of hope Janvi sees in those few days, I see it too. And that right there is the manipulation of Viraj Dobriyal - he can convince you into believing he has become what you want. He can make you want to give him a second chance. Look at what he did to Janvi - after seeing half of her family hurt, her father with a heart attack, her grandmother paralyzed, her child dead - she still forgave for those few days that he was pretending to have changed. Because that is how convincing he is. He can become a totally different person and for all the turbulations that Dr. K put him through during that treatment - making him face everything that bothers him and he still didn't break is proof enough for me that his ML is VERY easy for him to fake. He can play whatever cards he wants whenever he wants to unlike his treatment where he was faced by his demons one after another.

And while watching those very episodes, there is something else. The ONE thing that has always been genuine about Viraj is his reaction to his childhood. You can visibly see his face go from arrogant to scared, and he actually sweats in an air conditioned room - this is the level of fear instilled in someone who himself has been spreading the same level of fear for who knows how long now. This is the fear of his own father.

Janvi always walks on eggshells around him and the only person that can bring out a similar reaction from Viraj I believe is his father- btw this is a track I would love to see in the show at some point.

We will never know what emotional trauma Viraj has endured (unless CVs ever decide to go back to it). He is scarred and it shows in his actions - it shows by the fact that he realizes he is doing wrong perhaps due to having been a victim himself but he can't fix it. The only logic I can find behind it is look at the sensitivity of a child - imagine V as a child minus all the OCPD we see now. We don't know the roots of his condition, we don't know the details of his relationship with his father but we do know that any mention of his past will either scare him or aggravate him - he never wants to face it again.

Has his father showed him power in evil? Has he showed him that if one emotionally damages everyone around them, they become your puppets? Why is Viraj who he is? Is it revenge - inflicting upon others what he has endured? Or is it that he just doesn't want to feel anymore because of what his father has made him feel as a child?

And then I wonder - could emotions ever have been his weakness? There are times when I feel he does love Janvi and I was willing to say that whatever pain he inflicts is unknowingly but that I feel is the problem - he KNOWS what he's doing, then why? What does he get from it? Janvi truly did love him, she could have rebuilt his trust in relationships because his mother left him, his father was abusive - he has seen pain. But why doesn't he ever want to change?

I just want to say that before this show ends, I really hope CVs don't just leave all these questions hanging. I am equally interested in every character of this show and for the writers to not do them justice when they have this fabulous line up of actors would totally break my heart.

PS - Again this is not a war zone. I may have swayed back and forth between how I feel about Viraj because that's exactly how it's been for me as someone who's been watching the show from day one. This is not RajVi vs. RaghVi, nor is it if Janvi should go back to him - it's about who Viraj is and why he is the way he is.

I know its one of those REALLY REALLY long posts but rewatch of those episodes really just brought so many thoughts that I had to put them in words somewhere!

Originally posted by: Elysia

Rova, seriously. I can't match up to your writing abilities at all. I wish I had more words in my mental dictionary and your uncanny knack for writing. My posts are never concise, to the point. They're always repetitive and long [in the boring sense] 😕

But kher. I'm glad you appreciated my response 😳

Gosh, I am so frigging happy that we're on the same page, Rova. I'm so tired of debating the nature of Viraj's character with people who refuse to acknowledge that he's evil. I can totally understand your fascination of his mentality, because I share the same fascination. Not just in relation to him, but in relation to any kind of evil character in this world.

It's like when I read about a tyrant burning children alive in his country. All I can do is just stare at his face on the news and wonder why. How. What sort of mind can disconnect from humanity to such an extent, to such an extreme, that he can tell his military to slaughter a village or burn children alive -- and not feel any remorse. Not stop for a split-second and think: Shit, what am I doing? What kind of monster am I?

When I used to watch Criminal Minds, it was because I wanted to know what drove them to commit murder, prey on their victims, disconnect so entirely from humanity that they'd feel nothing but pleasure at their deeds.

In that sense, yes. I want to know what drives Viraj's manipulation. No doubt about it.

I just won't watch a justification of his character. Not a chance in hell.

*thinks of all the V shippers comments on FB*

I need a hug 😕

To be honest, I wasn't aiming my response at you in person. It was more in hope that all those people who read, who find Viraj justifiable and his actions worthy of worship, would stop for a second and reflect over what I was saying.

Waise, I was thinking about Viraj's father. I wonder if Viraj was abused because his father saw the tendency to be cruel/evil in him and didn't know how to handle it or something?