Why are they mixing Tarkasur and Shumbha Nishumbha

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#41

If this serial is going to focus on Shumb / Nishumbh and Tarakasur, (with whose kilings Shiva had nothing much to do...) when are they going to show Andhakasur and Tripurasur- who were actually killed by Shiva?

Edited by varaali - 13 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#42

Varaali

Did all this happen before or after the births of

Kartikeya
Ganesh

Originally posted by: varaali
This is the order in which the various asuras were killed by Devi (as per DSS)

Madhu / Kaitabh

The army of Mahishasura

Mahishasura

Dhumralochana

Chanda /Munda

Rakta Beeja

Nishumbha

Shumbha

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#43

Originally posted by: varaali
If this serial is going to focus on Shumb / Nishumbh and Tarakasur, (with whose kilings Shia had nothing much to do...) when are they going to show Andhakasur and Tripurasur- who were actually killed by Shiva?

Tripurasura would have happened long after the death of Tarakasura. In fact, that they can show either before or after Ganesh.

Andhakasura - any idea about the comparative timeline when he was killed?

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Chandra

@Roark

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#44

Tripurasura was the one related to the sons of taraka and their fort right. So it must be before the birth of Ganesh and Karthikeya.

Similalrly relating to andhakasura. Andhka was Shiva and Parvati's son. Born from Parvati';s sweat when she closes Shiva's eye plunging the entire universe into darkness. If am not mistaken if you read some of the stories, Parvati and Shiva did not bring him up but gave him to Hiranyanksha and andhaka made the mistake of falling in love with parvathi which led Shiva to actually destroy him. But he did not kill him. He reformed and became bhringi rishi.

So both these have to be before the arrival of Ganesha and Karthikeya

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#45

Originally posted by: .Vrish.
Varaali

Did all this happen before or after the births of
Kartikeya
Ganesh

And how does one find that out? Our scriptures are not dated. 😛

But, AFAIK (and Minu can correct me, if I am wrong), there is no reference to Ganapati, either worshiping or helping out his mom.

Regarding Kartikeya, amongst the several forms of Devi who battle Shumbh / Nishumbh,- like Vaishnavi (who emerged out of Vishnu),- Rudrani (who emerged out of Rudra) -or Aindri (emerged out of Indra), mention is made of Kaumari - the female equivalent of Kumara (Kartikeya) who is described as Shikhi- vahana (mounted on a peacock).

Edited by varaali - 13 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

#46

Varaali

I would say that if certain characters surfaced for the first time in one story A before appearing in another story B, it can be said, w/ some probability that A preceded B. I know that unlike in the epics, the puranas do a bad job of sequencing events.

Like Mahishashur definitely preceded Ganesh, since the invocation of Ma Durga happened for the first time during his reign. As Mnx pointed out in the last page (cited below), she merged into Parvati. After Ganesh was beheaded, she invoked Durga & Kali to punish the Devas & Ganas for helping in bringing about his death.

So even though neither of the above stories were dated, it's perfectly logical to conclude that Mahishashur vadh happened before Ganesh was created. That's the sort of thing I was referring to while asking which one preceded which. The others - Shubha, Nishumbha, Chanda, Munda, Raktabheej, et al could have happened either before or after Ganesh was born. Same w/ Mahishi.

I agree that there is no saying whether the killing of all these demons preceded Kartikeya killing Tarakasura. But contrary to what they are showing in the serial, the demons - be they asuras, rakshashas or danavs - always had only one supremo, be it Vritra, Tarakasura, Mahishashur, Shumbha/Nishumbha, Hiranyaksha, Hiranyakashipu, Prahlad, Virochan, Bali, Ravan, Narakasura, et al. Remember, most of them had boons that they would be supreme and unchallenged, so it's more likely than not that none of them ever coincided.

So in other words, when Tarakasura was around - which was sometime after Sati's death, up to Kartikeya's childhood, there couldn't have been Mahishashur, Vritra or Shumbha/Nishumbha. Vritra probably existed in the Sati era, when Indra was still powerful, and Mahishashur was probably there in the interim b/w the births of Kartikeya & Ganesh (For this analysis, I'm not using the southern versions that have Ganesh preceding Kartikeya). For the others, I agree that it's more difficult to state w/ certainty.

So yeah, that's what I was asking.

Originally posted by: mnx12
Durgama first emerged from the combined powers of all Gods & Devatas, they presented her various weapons. Lion was given to her by Himavan. She is worshipped as Aadi Shakti. After killing Mahishasur, she promised Devas, whenever they are in problem she will come to rescue them, she merged in Parvati.

During Shumbh, Nishumbh's time as per Devi's promise, Devas did her very famous stuti, " Yya Devi sarva bhutshu..."

At that time Paravti came ther for Ganga snana. She asked the Devas whom are they worshipping. Durgama appeared from her saying they are worshipping me. After Durgama emerged as a fair form, Parvati turned dark, that's one reason she is called Kali.

As Kali she had cut Chand, Mund's head & presented it to Durgama, who told Kali, she will be also known as Chamunda.

All the Deva's shakti came to fight eg. Narsimhi, Varahi, Brhmani, Aindri etc. Kali drank Raktabeeja's blood to finish him.

Durgama killed Nishumbh, that made Shumbh angry, he told her you are fighting with different Devis & I am alone, by that time most of the Asuras were killed.

Hearing this all the Devis merged in Durgama, who told Shumbh, they are all my Vibhutis. In a fierce battle, she killed Shumbh.

This is the DSS story. Most of the Puranas gives this version only.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#47

More explanation:

Kartikeya is mentioned in Chapter 8 - Rakta beeja Vadha.

After the death of Chanda / Munda, Shumbha assembled his forces and attacked Devi. From the various gods, emerged their respective female energies . Like Braahmi from Brahma (riding a swan-(Braahmi hamsa sama roodha), Vaishnavi from Vishnu, (Vaishnavi Garudasana) Maheshwari from Shiva (Maaheshwari Vrisharoodha).

Similarly Kaumari emerged from Kartikeya riding a peacock. (Kaumari Shikhi vaahana)

So Kartikeya was very much around.

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mnx12

@mnx12

Channel Moderator

+ 16

Posted: 13 years ago

#48

Kumari, Kartikeya's shakti came, on Peacock, to fight the war with Shumbh, Nishumbh etc. So kartikeya existed before this war. May be Tarakasur will be killed first, then it's SN's turn next, but for that Indra & Devas have to be out of Swarga once again.

Even as per Ganesh Puran, Karikeya was born first.

Edited by mnx12 - 13 years ago