My 2 cents on Creative License - Page 3

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whatthewhat thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#21
Dear all,

thanks SO much for your thought-provoking replies!

It might take me some time to respond individually, so I thought I'd do a general response.

I know we can all agree that the makers have always maintained that this show is a creative adaptation. And I, for one, am ALL for that. I have always maintained that in spite of some OTT stuff, this show has been supremely successful in capturing my imagination (and the imagination of many others). After I started watching DKDM, I dug out my old course materials from a comparative mythology course, found some more books about Shaiva mythology...re-read a translation of Kumarasambhava - you get the picture.

However, the recent unpleasantness on the forum that led to so-called "religious objections" 😕 to a different actress playing Parvati, made me stop and think a little about why people were having those reactions. Why were they responding to this show like any other tv romance?
I guess I cannot really answer that fully without knowing about their psyches! But I've realized that creative license should also be used with a degree of responsibility. A tv program does not necessarily have the scope to provide this education. All they do is give us a blink-and-you-miss-it disclaimer (as Shruti pointed out). Here I think the audience is also responsible not to passively consume everything that's shoved down their throats, but to ask questions, to do some research etc...esp. because this concerns cultural and religious history.

Coming on to forums like this is a great start, because you get a diversity of opinion and knowledge. I just hope more of us can be more responsible about how we approach ALL tv shows, not just mythologicals!

Mira 😊
Sups230695 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#22
very nice post...n v nicely put up..
the approach of this serial is not traditional depicting shiva as the destroyer..but its of his journey as a sansarik...i like the different angle of looking at the god n i feel they have the right to take creative liberties while bringing to life their perspective...
there was only one point when i felt they kind of went oevrboard n that ws wen shiva ws shown mourning over satis death...i agree he lost his wife n he ws in great pain..but they went on to portray him like devdas...they do have the liberties to show such things but they must kip in mind that its a god they r depicting..n i dnt think most ppl(atleast me) like to see sm god u worship to be depicted as equally vulnerable as u..
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#23
Inline responses

Originally posted by: shruti.nil


In DKDM however there is something that comes before the episode-which in my opinion everyone should read it-
its says "this show is a dramatized version of Pauranic scriptures,created exclusively for the purpose of entertainment-not meant to hurt the sentiments of any group or religious section"
DKDM has been created for entertainment purposes and is based on the Pauranic scriptures...the disclaimer says everything,and in this way it some how explains that all the content of this show shouldnt too seriously!...

Actually, this is there in a lot of the serials, if not all. In AS Ramayan, they had it, particularly when they were showing Luv/Kush's swarna kamal adventures, which I'm sure was written by none other than Sagar Arts. DBSK had it pretty often, and other serials like JJJB too have had it.

In fact, both ASR & DBSK had an unbelievably incredulous statement, where they claimed that the story had been formatted to fit the electronic medium. So things like Luv-Kush's swarna kamal adventures, or Krishna's games w/ Paundrak Vasudeva that included Sudama as well were all due to the technological needs of whatever TV technology that the channels had

but the major problem is that no one is able to read,since it comes in such tiny print for barely 2 seconds...

Actually, it scrolls too fast across the screen before one notices it

but yes ill agree the one Part that seriously annoyed me was seeing tarkasur in Satis era-he was so damn out of place...grrr...i felt like whacking him each time i saw him,similarly when i see Dadhichi a part in my head goes"errr...Dadhichi arent you supposed to be dead??",atleast D showing rishi Markandey makes sense since he did live that long and also wrote scriptures like the Devi Puran,Durga Satashati etc

The question though becomes what exactly does such a disclaimer allow one to do? My impression was that when there are varying texts that give conflicting accounts of the same event - something (unfortunately IMO) too common in Hindu scriptures, it gives the PH the license to pick and choose at random from different sources, and coming up w/ a composite story. To me, that's an acceptable use of the disclaimer.

But what when the disclaimer is used to give the PH the license to play fast & loose w/ the story? Be it Tarakasura in Sati's era, Parvati growing up in Dadhichi's ashram, Mena being hostile to Parvati being devoted to Shiva, and so on? In the ASR, the swarna kamal episodes of Luv & Kush were pulled out of thin air - those who were there in that forum will recall how we used to joke about Hansel & Gretel being plucked out of Grimm and put in Treta Yuga Aryavarta. And DBSK - the last stretch of stories that they showed after the Pradhyumna track about Krishna supervising a tyranical lady and how she dealt w/ the daughter of a blind couple, and so on? Of course, by then, DBSK had lost all its viewers, and so they could show anything until Turner mercifully pulled the plug on the channel itself.

Or in DkDM itself - first day, the kidnapping of Parvati and the next day, attempt by Bahurupa to kill Parvati, the next day, Tarakasura's assailants going to hunt her, and so on. Taken right out of the stories of baby Pradhyumna, baby Krishna and then who knows what else

i have no problem in showing Shiva and Adi Shakits story as a love story-its a love story we look up to and admire,but something i have a serious problem is the fact that they are messing up the timelines,that almost changes the whole story,specially when they got Tarkasur in Satis era,which made no sense!

The love story itself, I don't mind. The criteria that I use is that it shouldn't contradict stuff that's in the scriptures. So if they want to show Shiva & Parvati playing dice (something that they did in RSSK) or Krishna & Jambavati watching TV (a regular on DBSK) or even Rama giving Sita a foot massage (shown in ASR, much to the chagrin of some viewers), I am happy to see it.

What I can't digest, however, is when they alter the story to fly in the face of what's written. In the original Ramayan, Rama asked Lakshman to leave Sita near Valmiki's ashram w/o telling her, and she got to know at the last moment, whereas in both the Ramayan serials, they showed Sita being the one to urge Rama to exile her In Shrimad Bhagvatam, it was Rukmini who was the main person entertaining Sudama when he visited: in DBSK, they showed Jambavati & Satyabhama do it instead.

Within DkDM itself, I'm disappointed that they sanitized the roles of everybody present in Daksha's yagna. In the original story, when Veerbhadra went there, he set about punishing everybody. Saraswati's nose was cut off, so was Vayu's teeth, Indra & Vishnu were knocked unconscious and just about everybody who had insulted Mahadev by attending that yagna in the first place was duly punished. Here, they showed everybody as being opposed to Daksha. [8=}}]

PS-i do hope they show some of Shivas independent stories too-even of it is in the flashback form of a Rishi telling Parvati a story of Shiva-he may be an ideal husband/lover,but ShivJi has many aspects to his character which people need to know!!

I'm desperately hoping for that as well. The events around Bhashmasura, Shiva's involvement in the samudra manthan, his dealings w/ Ravana, and so on. In fact, I'm even hoping (maybe against hope) that we see Shiva & Mohini give birth to Ayappa. If that happens, it should happen after Durga kills Mahishashur, since that was what caused it in the first place. As an aside, it would be funny to see both Parvati and Lakshmi sadly conversing amongst themselves while their husbands are conceiving a child to kill the rakshashi. 😈😆

nice post sweety
shruti

Edited by .Vrish. - 13 years ago
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: pnars

What I do object to is reducing the Shiva story to a Mohit-Mouni Chemistry show as some people here seem to think. The makers of this show have definitely not done that. There are some beautiful dialogues and situations that get lost in this "hot" romance.

Take for instance, the episode of Jan 13th when Dadichi and other sages go to Kailas and invite Shiva to the Mahamandal. Shiva speaks beautifully then - that the cause for all this is "pakshapaath" and people go to wars, the whole environment (pashu, pakshi, jeev jantu) suffer and then there is another "mahamandal" for peace. What a beautiful sentiment - Shiva, presented this way is the original environmentalist!! I salute the writer of this episode. I have been struck by many such instances in the episodes when Shiva talks about theology, peace, the environment, vairagya.

Please take the good from this show, and take it for what it is - an offering/adaptation of the Shiva story, which will join the infinite others that already exist. Don't become militant about canon or demand a linear narrative - linear narratives are impossible in Hindu mythology anyway.

Paddy

Very well said👏
We are watching the maker's interpretation. yesterday I saw one more name being added along with the existing writer. They are also trying their best to get good people to work as a team.
@ Bold is the best way to watch a Mytho show, over criticism takes away the chance of enjoying some very good pts. offered by the show.
Some of the creative liberties are not accepted, I have never accepted the Ram's part in this story. But once that track was over, the next track was so exciting that all the disappointment dissapeared in a day. I frankly never expect anthing while watching, choose to ignore the unacceptable part & move on to the next one.
whatthewhat thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#25

Originally posted by: vanadhi

Nice Post Mira , I agree with every points layouted here that , There is a need for some Clarity ,when they are showing about Gods . Me to expect some more extra information or tracks after sati's immolation ,but they rushed towards parvathi ,here too they are over dramatizing every thing .Shiv is not a ordinary man ,that he is always bounded to Lady love , Its part of his journey thats all. IF they are sticked to Romancing side of Shiv , its is not mean that ,they can spoil the time line and marks of Other Rishis around HIm . 40 % of the viewers knew nothing ,they just believe what they are showing , Includings kids . Lets Leave Tarakasur ,Atleast ,there needed some specularity while showing stories of Rishis. Because they are revered persons ,Unlike gods they are part of our Human History also . zigzagging the time line is considered ,before doing so .


Thanks for the response Vanadhi!

it's true they are over-dramatizing...but I guess that's the nature of television! Drama! So we just have to take it with a pinch of salt and enjoy the wonderful things (of which there are many!)
😊
whatthewhat thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: shruti.nil

see regarding the creative liberty part-the cvs have admitted it themselves that they have taken creative liberties here and there...its a different presentation of Shiva,which has clicked with the audience!


PS-i do hope they show some of Shivas independent stories too-even of it is in the flashback form of a Rishi telling Parvati a story of Shiva-he may be an ideal husband/lover,but ShivJi has many aspects to his character which people need to know!!
nice post sweety
shruti


Thanks for the response Shruti! And I agree - they have made that statement. And now it is our responsibility as the audience to keep our heads!

Me too! I am waiting for the samudra-manthan scene! that will be AWESOME! 😃
whatthewhat thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: pnars

My two paise worth re: creative liberty -


We should all agree that this is an adaptation of the Shiva mythologies. The original mythologies themselves are shrouded in mystery and time - the same story has many variations depending on which purana you read it in - Shiva Purana, Linga Purana, Devi Purana etc.

I have a layperson's suspicion as well that many "adaptations" already exist - which purana is the
authentic original one? And which one is a derivative? Also, do you disregard the more recent commentaries and adaptations available over the last few hundred years in various vernacular languages?

Taken in this spirit, we should just sit back and enjoy the story. Treat it similar to what we in Karnataka call a "bayalaata" - a Yakshagaana dance/drama that runs in villages through the night. The dialogues can vary and be enhanced/stretched depending on the actors' moods, the current
"hot news" in town etc but the core narrative is intact. The end product is very amusing and entertaining. Haven't many of us attended village roadshows such as this?

What I do object to is reducing the Shiva story to a Mohit-Mouni Chemistry show as some people here seem to think. The makers of this show have definitely not done that. There are some beautiful dialogues and situations that get lost in this "hot" romance.


Please take the good from this show, and take it for what it is - an offering/adaptation of the Shiva story, which will join the infinite others that already exist. Don't become militant about canon or demand a linear narrative - linear narratives are impossible in Hindu mythology anyway.

Paddy



Thanks for your response Paddy! I couldn't agree more with the points you made! 😊
Mira
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Posted: 13 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: bangalores

Mira
since this is ur post i take it as a duty to add my say...actually this is a personal experience and i think it kind of supports the viewers being carried away...so here goes the incident...and though i do not feel guilty about what i did, i do feel a bit ashamed

i have mentioned this before somewhere i am a Christian.
long back i. e before my marriage during the Season of Lent my Parish decided to present a street play to enact the Way Of The cross... so we all gathered in front of the Church were the Crucification was going to take place..we maane my parents my sis and me along with so many other believers. We saw the processsion reaching the place with the person who acted Christ carrying the Cross and as per the scripture he was shown to be Crucified...then the cross was made to rise from the ground to the stand...the effect was so spectacular that many clapped and i too joined it...along with my mom who is such an ardent Christian... Somebody from the crowd near was scandalised and reminded " see people are clapping when Jesus is crucified."
though i did not feel guilty as my mother did, i was embarassed. it goes without saying that the Church never ventured into another such endeavour after that as i feel the play did defeat the purpose
so though to many DKDM may not be nothing more than a serial, where the love between Mahadev and Shakti is portrayed. got to say this isn't that what is shown in prominance too? what is most important for the makers of the show is TRP ...so is it any wonder that they give the audience what they wish for... romance with a difference... a mythological love story?

the show caught my attention first due to Mohit Raina and the character sketched for Mahadev...
then came the interest about the incidents and the story of Mahadev...so may be like the one who made that post i too, in my ignorance may think whatever is shown in the show is what had transpired...it is this Forum that corrects my misconceptions.

yet that one post was a bit too insensitive😆...

okay that was my 2 bit for ur 2 bit😉



Dear Bindu - thanks for sharing your story!

I think any of us can get carried away by spectacle...so don't be too hard on yourself!

I think we are all pretty much in agreement about the show and the liberties it is taking. It's not a bad this necessarily, as long as we all recognize the fact and don't get too carried away!


Mythologicals are always very popular with Indian audiences and add to that romance...and it's irresistible! I would agree with you that the makers of this show care about TRPs...I am not sure they really care about making people aware of Shaiva mythology (but who knows?! I suppose I am a little cynical about the motives!). That's not their job. Their job is to entertain. I guess our job is to understand that this is entertainment and not take everything they show as having a basis in mythological narratives. to understand that the demands of tv will change the narrative (not drastically perhaps, but even so...)

And yes, thanks to this forum we can get out misconceptions cleared!





whatthewhat thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: mnx12

Very well said👏

We are watching the maker's interpretation. yesterday I saw one more name being added along with the existing writer. They are also trying their best to get good people to work as a team.
@ Bold is the best way to watch a Mytho show, over criticism takes away the chance of enjoying some very good pts. offered by the show.
Some of the creative liberties are not accepted, I have never accepted the Ram's part in this story. But once that track was over, the next track was so exciting that all the disappointment dissapeared in a day. I frankly never expect anthing while watching, choose to ignore the unacceptable part & move on to the next one.



Can you explain that?

Being South Indian, I had never heard of Sati's meeting with Ram and her taking Sita's form...

But I found this is Tulsidas's Ramcharitmanas (in the frame narrative). One of the reasons Sati had to give up her body was because she had taken the form of Sita - whom Shiva worships as a mother. In the show, Mahadev mentions that, but they don;t show that as the reason Sati gives up her body.

But after reading this in the Ramcharitmanas, I guessed this must be a story prevalent in North India...dating to at least the Adhyatma Ramayana (which is one of the major inspirations for Tulsidas).

Mira 😊


Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: narangi_77



Can you explain that?

Being South Indian, I had never heard of Sati's meeting with Ram and her taking Sita's form...

But I found this is Tulsidas's Ramcharitmanas (in the frame narrative). One of the reasons Sati had to give up her body was because she had taken the form of Sita - whom Shiva worships as a mother. In the show, Mahadev mentions that, but they don;t show that as the reason Sati gives up her body.

But after reading this in the Ramcharitmanas, I guessed this must be a story prevalent in North India...dating to at least the Adhyatma Ramayana (which is one of the major inspirations for Tulsidas).

Mira 😊


This touches some sensibilities when it comes to questioning the authenticity of certain texts as far as their spiritual authenticity is concerned.

With ancient scriptures, like the Vedas and the Puranas, there is no argument, although different Puranas by different authors sometimes conflict. As far as the Ramayan goes, the only contemporary history about him was one from Valmiki, and another from Vaishistha - the latter which I don't think has been completely traced. Among Vyasa's works, there is the Mahabharat, Shrimad Bhagvatam (although some argue that he's not the author of the latter) and some of the latter Puranas, as well as Adhyatma Ramayan. In the case of Vyasa, there is his Mahabharata, and then there are the ones written by his disciples, like Sukhdev, Jaimineya and so on. All of them were contemporaries of Krishna, so all of their accounts, even when they conflict, have a fair degree of period based authenticity, and any conflicts b/w them have to be resolved by other means.

All of the above were ancient, and can be accepted as historically somewhat authentic (assuming of course that it's not been tampered w/ over the millenia) In the case of Valmiki, the beauty of it is that it reads almost like a complete history story, w/ hardly any miracles attributed to Rama (the only miracles in that work are the ones ascribed to Hanuman, but other than that, Ahilya was not a stone, Lakshman never drew any Lakshman rekha, and there were no miracles done by Rama)

Problem comes up w/ mediaeval texts written in the 13th century - the works of poets who were definitely literary pioneers in their various languages - Kamban in Tamil, Krittivas in Bengali, Tulsidas in Hindi, and so on. For them, it was never a work of history, but just one of devotion, and in pursuit of that, they simply and happily embellished the achievements of their favorite subjects - in their case, Rama - and attributed to him powers he never had (as per Valmiki) and events he never experienced. Like the Tulsidas story about him meeting Sati.

If one thinks about it, Sati lived in the Satya Yuga, and even Shiva's marriage to Parvati happened then, since the Samudra manthan happened during the time that Parvati was married to Shiva (even though some sources have it varying). Then Narasimha avatar marked the end of Satya Yuga, and beginning of Treta Yuga. Rama's mahaprayan marked the end of Treta Yuga, and he himself lived and ruled for the last 11000 years of Treta Yuga.

So given the above facts, Rama couldn't have possibly met Sati. Of course, that didn't matter to Tulsidas, and if he (and other poets like him) could conjure up stories where it happened, it would be praised as devotional, no matter how ridiculous and devoid of logic it was. It's for that reason that I usually give mediaeval texts little importance: the only thing they did do is narrate the Ramayan - albeit very distorted versions - to people who didn't speak Sanskrit, but were increasingly speaking vernacular languages developing in India at the time. But in terms of clearing up the real stories of what happened, they more often than not did a good job of muddying the waters, and complicating rather simple stories of the gods that existed in the original. Incidentally, it's not just the mediaeval texts - even in pre-Muslim India, there were versions of the Ramayan like the Ananda Ramayan that had really wacky accounts of what took place. Some of it was discussed 3 years back in the Ramayan forum.

Of course, questioning these gets into the realm of offending the religious sentiments of people who live & breathe these stories. which obviously most people want to avoid doing. However, if one actually reads most of them and puts more weightege on contemporary scholars of the periods in question, such as Valmiki for Ramayan, Vyasa for Mahabharat, Markandeya for Markandeya Puranas and so on, then one finds that a lot of the more subsequent stories about them have strayed considerably from the original, to the point of being down & out fabrications.
Edited by .Vrish. - 13 years ago

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