Religious Conversion - Your views

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apux

@apux

Inactive

Posted: 17 years ago

#31

Originally posted by: Nupur9

Lovely Star...it's not even about force conversion....that is not of-course so not right......

To me the whole idea of conversion is wrong!

Expecting people to convert their beliefs just coz then they will be helped by a group or community is not right.

Plus if you are doing charity.....then why only to with the premise of conversion???

Then does that make it charity anymore........?

I agree with you! I don't believe in conversion. I don't like when people are trying "spread the word" about their religion....religion is personal and should not be used to recruit as many people as possible....its like religion is some sort of advertisement that missionaries want to sell...it just rubs me the wrong way! The next time someone comes to my door selling their religion, I'll try to convince them to convert to Hinduism...I bet they won't like that!!!

Edited by apux - 17 years ago

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200467

Suspended

Posted: 17 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: apux

I agree with you! I don't believe in conversion. I don't like when people are trying "spread the word" about their religion....religion is personal and should not be used to recruit as many people as possible....its like religion is some sort of advertisement that missionaries want to sell...it just rubs me the wrong way! The next time someone comes to my door selling their religion, I'll try to convince them to convert to Hinduism...I bet they won't like that!!!

no, they don't like that at all...and they leave you alone after that as well😆 tried and tested approach

Personally, i am not against them trying to spread their religion. They are mandated to do so by their religious texts. If they want people who are willing to cross over for a t.v. set or some money, then isn't it good riddance for a lot of us I mean who wants the dal-badloos to be in their camp anyways😆

On a serious note - The missionaries etc might try out their luck with us all BUT most conversions take place among socio-economically backward classes. Somewhere, the govt or the well-to-do people of their own religion failed to support them. Otherwise they wouldn't think of converting.

Missionaries, at some level, are doing what the politicians do all year round - getting support in numbers. Then, how can we fault them in trying out their luck? As long as they are not intimidating or threatening people into conversions, I really do not see anything "bad" in what they are trying to do. I wouldn't do so myself or give in to their bribes etc but I don't think what they are doing is morally wrong or unethical.

Edited by Gauri_3 - 17 years ago

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Nupur

@Nupur9

Rocker

Posted: 17 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

no, they don't like that at all...and they leave you alone after that as well tried and tested approach

Personally, i am not against them trying to spread their religion. They are mandated to do so by their religious texts. If they want people who are willing to cross over for a t.v. set or some money, then isn't it good riddance for a lot of us I mean who wants the dal-badloos to be in their camp anyways

On a serious note - The missionaries etc might try out their luck with us all BUT most conversions take place among socio-economically backward classes. Somewhere, the govt or the well-to-do people of their own religion failed to support them. Otherwise they wouldn't think of converting.

Missionaries, at some level, are doing what the politicians do all year round - getting support in numbers. Then, how can we fault them in trying out their luck? As long as they are not intimidating or threatening people into conversions, I really do not see anything "bad" in what they are trying to do. I wouldn't do so myself or give in to their bribes etc but I don't think what they are doing is morally wrong or unethical.

But then right there is the fault.......

Religion is not politics....or so they would like us to believe!

Infact most of these missionary organisations are run like corporations...

Very focus and very result oriented!

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200467

Suspended

Posted: 17 years ago

#34

Originally posted by: Nupur9

But then right there is the fault.......

Religion is not politics....or so they would like us to believe!

I am not saying religion is politics - eventhough we all know how rampantly religion card is used in politics and how intermix the two are in most developing and/or under developed countries usually. All I am saying is asking people to folow your religion is like asking people to vote for you. One can find faults in this approach based on their ethical/moral opinions but it is as legal as garnering votes.

Infact most of these missionary organisations are run like corporations...

Very focus and very result oriented!

...and what's wrong with them being like corporations as long as they are not cheating on their taxes or converting people illegally?

See, we can base our case on brain-washing or luring the poorest of poor and uneducated people into conversion BUT why are these people dirt poor or uneducated in the first place? Rather than finding faults with the missionaries, shouldn't we be asking what hindu preists and temples have done to safeguard hinduism other than barring the achhoots from entering the temples or having elite lines for darshan/orayers? Pretty much all indian political parties are guilty of playing caste and religion card for garnering votes in India. There's unequal distribution of wealth and infrastructure is so poor that certain aadivasi areas are pretty much cut-off from the main lifeline of our countries. How many hindu leaders you see going to such places to ensure poeple keep their faith? How many can worry about faith when they can't even afford the bare necessities of life? How fair is it then to blame those who found these ignored people and induce them into converting their faith? If these missionary schools provide education to even 1 % of those who are converted and make them self-sufficient - that's 1% of the dirt poor families uplifting their socia-economic status. So some good does come out of this whole ordeal. Why is conversion then unfair?

I would still say that extrapolating isolated incidents of "conversion" in Assam, Manipur, Kerala etc. to the entire Hindu fold is flawed. In any case, Hinduism did not engage in institutionalised conversion like other religions. I agree conversion tactics have destroyed indigenous culture and religious beliefs all across the world. Countries in Latin America and Africa are examples. BUT effects of induced conversion are temporary if they are not followed up by setting up of missionary schools, education centers or other means to help the newly converted community become self sufficient. In such cases, it's not that rare to see people go back to observing their initial cultural practices. However, in cases where these missionaries did end up improving the quality of life and hence, retaining the converts in their fold, some good did come out for the converted people and their living status did improve. What's so bad in it then?

To each their own, I guess. No one is stopping hindus to go out and convert others so who are we to stop others from doing it?

Edited by Gauri_3 - 17 years ago

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Nupur

@Nupur9

Rocker

Posted: 17 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

How can it be as simple as asking people to vote.........

You change your political ideologies atleast 2 -3 times in your lifetime.......do people do that to their religion...

An obvious no!

One is born with a religious belief ... and I think that one should not change his or her born religion.

A person is born in a faith and should die in the same faith. This is the only thing which comes with the person at birth and will go with the person on death.

Also, why should religion be used as a bargain tool???

Throughout human history, religion has constantly tried to push into politics........push in and assume control.

It succeeds too often and the consequence is usually human misery on a grand scale.

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200467

Suspended

Posted: 17 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: Nupur9

One is born with a religious belief ...

No one is born with any beliefs whatsoever. Beliefs, just like culture and/or morals, is a learned/adapted behavior as one grows and they evolve throughout a person's lifetime.

Rest later. In a hurry now.

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SholaJoBhadkey

@SholaJoBhadkey

Dazzler

Posted: 17 years ago

#37

Originally posted by: Nupur9

And I also think Religion is very personal.....

Originally posted by: Nupur9

One is born with a religious belief ... and I think that one should not change his or her born religion.

A person is born in a faith and should die in the same faith. This is the only thing which comes with the person at birth and will go with the person on death.

I see a wee contradiction there! If religion is personal, then one should have a choice of which religion to follow like all other personal choices one tends to make. Why should one just go along with a decision that one has had no input into, whatsoever? We are not "born into a religion". If that's the case, then what religion is a child of mixed-marriage born into?? The only thing we are born with is our faculties and the ability to choose a religion (or no religion) is part of exercising those faculties.

I am not at all for "religious conversion" as implied in the first post, but if someone wishes to change his or her faith as per their own volition, then why not!!

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Golden iron

@Golden iron

Explorer

Posted: 17 years ago

#38

Wah kya topic hai Maya Memsaab ka

Now for conversion....sometimes changes are required...like a kid does not approve his name...may change it, Does not like home town so changes place of residence for study/job etc. Change is part of life. Yet few things are with us by default. Yes when we are born, we are just a living being happen to be a part of a family. Now that family is our identity...as we cannot choose our parents, same way we cannot choose our identity. The culture that we see in our family is the tradition to be followed.

Although people are seen who may change their parents even...may be circumstances...If I am starving with my family, may be I will praise your God to just get some money...who knows as Khali peth bhajan na hott Gopala (Empty stomach, you cannot say prayers)

But for me Conversion is a nono...child is brought up some values and belief since birth and if he cannot hold on to them,,,goes to convert himself to another region because some one brain stromed him...then that person is a big time looser.

my 2 cents ...aab shayad teacher ji danda lekar hamla karne walli hain is nanhi si Loha jaaan pur 😕😆😆

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200467

Suspended

Posted: 17 years ago

#39

Originally posted by: Golden iron

my 2 cents ...aab shayad teacher ji danda lekar hamla karne walli hain is nanhi si Loha jaaan pur 😕😆😆

arrey aankh key andhon naam nayansukh😆 bahni key haath mein belan hai - danda naheen😉

Iron, the debate is not about whether I or you would convert or whether it's right or wrong. Debate, if I am not mistaken, is whether the missionaries converting poor people by inducing them with material things is acceptable or not.

Just like we love our religion and it's teachings, the missionaries do too. Their religion mandates them to spread it and bring more people in their fold. How is it wrong if they are not threatening people to convert? You and I may not like it but what right do we have to call their actions "wrong" or "unethical"?

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Nupur

@Nupur9

Rocker

Posted: 17 years ago

#40

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

arrey aankh key andhon naam nayansukh😆 bahni key haath mein belan hai - danda naheen😉

Iron, the debate is not about whether I or you would convert or whether it's right or wrong. Debate, if I am not mistaken, is whether the missionaries converting poor people by inducing them with material things is acceptable or not.

Just like we love our religion and it's teachings, the missionaries do too. Their religion mandates them to spread it and bring more people in their fold. How is it wrong if they are not threatening people to convert? You and I may not like it but what right do we have to call their actions "wrong" or "unethical"?

Exatly Gauri ...The question is whether it's right or wrong.......

And I say it's wrong for the same reason you mentioned....converting poor people for Material gains.

It's almost the same premise as Forced conversion where you convert do to save your life....except there is no force...but there is still gain!!