Rajiv Gandhi - Page 3

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

enigmatic_zephy

@enigmatic_zephy

Inactive

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: ramjaane

Exactly but , RSS/BJP fanatics cant understand this, who indulge in the this killing game in the name of religion or our pm aspirant who prefer to identify himself on the basis of religion as hindu nationalist .😆

h ehe..

but the thing is society has that inherent disconnect which is played on by the politicians..and its not a recent thing...but since forever..

The entire freedom struggle, it tuk 100 years because people were not united...small groups individually would raise their voice..not exaqctly align with each other ( yes lack of press and ocmmunication are also reason but not this big)...

1857 is important, because thats the first time hindu-muslim came together..and British knew very well that this should not happen again...

Nehru-Jinaah is also a result of that..

I know people say we are brothers and we can live in harmony...deep down i think society wants that..However, the sad truth is this too...the deep down there is some sort of disconnect too which is prevalent...

It comes out best when you read the freedom struggle rt from the time of modernists...and why society was not participating..till gandhi came..his achievement ofcourse being involvement of peasanty and thus the United India..

Even today, you and I might not do it..but overall in India there are issues...even between hindu/muslim..

and till the time society continues to harbour these feelings, someone or the other will always find a way to ruffle them and use it against them..

( Let's see what is now happening in Muzaffarnagar doen't spread)

ONUS is on us..

But yes, another thing to consider..

whoever has seen partition will not be able to get over that hate...( easy to say but close to impossible).. and hence, the role o fnew generation is so important..because it is free of all such budens..

But alas, youth in India ( and don't limit it to a few individuals) is still not participating nor is interested in state affairs...

yet, the good thing is..there is a definite rise in contribution from the youth although from specific corners...rise in NGOs, accepting home job offers, enterpreuership..et all...

only if we cud curb the evil side of corruption...complete elimination is impossible..

Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 12 years ago

Quote

Bazigar

@Bazigar

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#22

1. In a multicultural, multireligious society always there is some difference , so also it have unity component. It is wrong to think that these are byproduct of partition horror if that is so then the most volatile should be the region which not only witness but majorly suffer the partition religious horror like West Bengal or in Punjab. If we look at history than Infact west bengal have no history of riots during 1992 when India witnessed riots all over. The point is in recent history most of the major riots were not spontaneous , instead a manufactured one where different fanatic groups use the situation for furthering their cause . Blatantly they fanning the sectarian and religious conflict among people , try to polarise the society.

2. Regarding british divide rule concept , our present generation, how we approach secularism is also interesting. A PM aspirant who want to be at the helm of the nation declare himself Hindu nationalist. We can witness many of our generation support his outlook. The way they paint the nationalism is interesting , shall a parsi declare himself as parsi nationalist, muslim declare he is muslim nationaltist, a christian as christian nationalist, like he declare he is hindu nationalist ?

Yes in the aim of polarization of society certainly the divide rule product of British like RSS golwalikar etc. declare themselves as hindu nationalist, but we never hear a Bhagat Singh declare himself as Sikh nationalist or a chandra sekhar azad hindu nationalist or a Ashafaqulla khan as muslim nationalist or related to the thread heading surname M K Gandhi himself as hindu nationalist.

Edited by ramjaane - 12 years ago

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: ramjaane
1. In a multicultural, multireligious society always there is some difference , so also it have unity component. It is wrong to think that these are byproduct of partition horror if that is so then the most volatile should be the region which not only witness but majorly suffer the partition religious horror like West Bengal or in Punjab. If we look at history than Infact west bengal have no history of riots during 1992 when India witnessed riots all over. The point is in recent history most of the major riots were not spontaneous , instead a manufactured one where different fanatic groups use the situation for furthering their cause . Blatantly they fanning the sectarian and religious conflict among people , try to polarise the society.

2. Regarding british divide rule concept , our present generation, how we approach secularism is also interesting. A PM aspirant who want to be at the helm of the nation declare himself Hindu nationalist. We can witness many of our generation support his outlook. The way they paint the nationalism is interesting , shall a parsi declare himself as parsi nationalist, muslim declare he is muslim nationaltist, a christian as christian nationalist, like he declare he is hindu nationalist ?

Yes in the aim of polarization of society certainly the divide rule product of British like RSS golwalikar etc. declare themselves as hindu nationalist, but we never hear a Bhagat Singh declare himself as Sikh nationalist or a chandra sekhar azad hindu nationalist or a Ashafaqulla khan as muslim nationalist or related to the thread heading surname M K Gandhi himself as hindu nationalist.

totally disagree on all fronts. Read up on the partition. Riots started in Kolkata. That's Bengal. At least get your facts right. Riots have also been happening right since then, so let's not make it into congress propaganda by falsely making it out to be a recent thing after Babri.

second point- differences? Yeah, some differences. One side says there should be no appeasement/ special laws for any one group. The other side considers that communal. So what's the first group to do? Try to get a secular pat on the back by bending over?

third, irrespective of whether it is politicians or whoever playing games, responsibility and accountability lies with the people who indulge in bad behavior. Shouldn't be passing the buck.

Fourth, what's wrong with someone calling themselves a Hindu Nationalist? He is Hindu. Fact. He claims he is Nationalist. So? Dont US Presidents proudly wear their religion on their sleeves, and make sure they are seen going to church every sunday morning? Wont you expect to see a Muslim leader wearing his skull-cap? Bottom-line, as long as someone does not mix their religion with state policy, there should not be any problem. Do you have a problem with someone being proud about being Hindu?

and fifth, to your earlier point about terrorists and Babri rioters being the same, there is again a big difference. The terrorists have a policy. The rioters are people who run amok in the heat of the moment. One is premeditated murder with intent, another is a crime committed in the heat of passion. As far as the latter is concerned, as long as people are humans, they will all have that failing, in whatever measure. But only one group makes it a policy instrument. The action reaction also has totally different scales in the two cases. In one case, the killings go on and on and on... Lots of reaction if you ask me.

and last i checked, most of the world over, there's a certain group that's considered more fanatical/ terrorism-prone than any other. Good try in trying to paint the BJP/ RSS in the same light, but no one is buying that cuckoo stuff.

Quote

Bazigar

@Bazigar

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#24

1. I am saying on facts read again

It is wrong to think that these are byproduct of partition horror if that is so then the most volatile should be the region which not only witness but majorly suffer the partition religious horror like West Bengal or in Punjab. If we look at history than Infact west bengal have no history of riots during 1992 when India witnessed riots all over. where i make it a congress propaganda infact read again where i said congress specially rajiv gandhi is the main igniter of all these mandir masjid conflict.

2. Fourth, what's wrong with someone calling themselves a Hindu Nationalist?

Yes it is find it is wrong when a pm aspirant declare like a religious fanatics like golwalikar . Now read again where is the objection , it is nothing with one is proud of Hindu.

The way they paint the nationalism is interesting , shall a parsi declare himself as parsi nationalist, muslim declare he is muslim nationaltist, a christian as christian nationalist, like he declare he is hindu nationalist ?

3, the whole concept is based on when someone point out implicitly justifying there is action reaction when there is action of train burning the reaction will be there of a mass organised genocide. So i compare that how terrorists use the same action reaction theory that as there is genocide so they did terrorist activity of their ( i just relate one view point with other) , i m not saying who is more on and on that was just a relevant point why we dangerously speak a action reaction theory like modi.

((irrespective of whether it is politicians or whoever playing games, responsibility and accountability lies with the people who indulge in bad behavior. Shouldn't be passing the buck.))

agree on this certainly the buck should be stop and responsibility cant be denied, But our law cant catch advani, modi or a past bal thackrey,

.When we witness the kind of fanaticism in India , why need to go all over world. When there is a large scale riots , rise of communal element in our own society.,

I know just a discussion will drag towards personal conflict .

Quote

enigmatic_zephy

@enigmatic_zephy

Inactive

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#25

@Ramjaane:

ON godhra:

the incident of burning S-6 coach of Sabarmati Express on February 27, 2002, was a pre-planned conspiracy and not an accident. It also says that Maulvi(Muslim cleric) Hussain Umarji planned the entire conspiracy. [Hussain Umarji is the same person who burnt Indian flag in pakistan day and was let off with stern warning due to lack of evidence post arrest. Ref: pakistan today 2001]

The nanavati report says that 140 liters of petrol was purchased as the part of conspiracy to burn the bogey.

The first part of the report in it's last paragraph says that there was no evidence of the role of CM(Narendra Modi), any Gujarat minister or police in this case. The report adds that there was no evidence of them having not been able to provide protection, relief or rehabilitation to any riot victim.

WHY PILGRIMS WERE KILLED BY MUSLIM MOBS ???

THE SAD PART IS THERE ARE MORE THAN 2000 PICTURES DEPICTING KILLINGS OF HINDUS IN GODHRA TRAIN INCIDENT. BUT THERE WAS ONLY 42 PICTURES OF GODHRA KAND AND STILL GODHRA KAND WAS MORE POPULATED BY PAID MEDIA OF INDIA. WHY PICTURES OF INNOCENT HINDUS KILLED WERE NOT SHOWN TO MASSES AND INDIAN PUBLIC.

Now, does this justify killing of muslims in riots no...but no one had questioned the burning train, muslims were not questioning their heros who committed these acts...

My point is, in acts as these a lot of onus lies on the public...

POV is he did not stop the public from doing what it did...but y did public do this in the first place?? Why..? on both sides..that's a more pertinent question

infact at times i wonder...if the Indian soceity is so laid back that every tom dick and harry aggravtes them ..and turns them into a barbaric society...

if it is us..who are totally at fault, don't od naything, don't raise voice...and hence do we deserve the govt that we have!...

Quote

Bazigar

@Bazigar

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#26

Content Removed

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Goa/Goa-Catholics-are-culturally-Hindu-says-CM-Parrikar/Article1-1117679.aspx

Quote

enigmatic_zephy

@enigmatic_zephy

Inactive

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#27

Content Removed

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Goa/Goa-Catholics-are-culturally-Hindu-says-CM-Parrikar/Article1-1117679.aspx

Quote

Bazigar

@Bazigar

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#28

Content Removed

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Goa/Goa-Catholics-are-culturally-Hindu-says-CM-Parrikar/Article1-1117679.aspx

Quote

enigmatic_zephy

@enigmatic_zephy

Inactive

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#29

As far as I know, 27th this happened, 28th naroda..and then mayhem...

if 27th was live covered..? not sure abt this..how cud they..they wudn't know it was to happen..

they showed dead bodies indeed..

its what followed later that was promoted by media to aggravate sentiments more and more..

But if live coverage indeed happened then I stand corrected..

( wondering: question on responsible journalism...and not just administration?)

Is RSS an amazing pious party no...hooliganism is different..

Is Modi the most awesome option to have..NO..but media has been extremely biased towards him..

and lastly..i will go back to my main point... if we as a society have zero tolerance for sthg then y do we have to pretend to support it?

If i don't like someone then instead of genuinely trying to like the other person..y am i expected to say we are brothers adn then stab each other behind the back..

Y r we as a society so dumb to fall for these religios tactics each time if we truly trust each other?

Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 12 years ago

Quote

Ana_R

@LovelyPlanet

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#30

Originally posted by: enigmatic_zephy
@Ramjaane:

ON godhra:

the incident of burning S-6 coach of Sabarmati Express on February 27, 2002, was a pre-planned conspiracy and not an accident. It also says that Maulvi(Muslim cleric) Hussain Umarji planned the entire conspiracy. [Hussain Umarji is the same person who burnt Indian flag in pakistan day and was let off with stern warning due to lack of evidence post arrest. Ref: pakistan today 2001]

The nanavati report says that 140 liters of petrol was purchased as the part of conspiracy to burn the bogey.

The first part of the report in it's last paragraph says that there was no evidence of the role of CM(Narendra Modi), any Gujarat minister or police in this case. The report adds that there was no evidence of them having not been able to provide protection, relief or rehabilitation to any riot victim.

WHY PILGRIMS WERE KILLED BY MUSLIM MOBS ???

THE SAD PART IS THERE ARE MORE THAN 2000 PICTURES DEPICTING KILLINGS OF HINDUS IN GODHRA TRAIN INCIDENT. BUT THERE WAS ONLY 42 PICTURES OF GODHRA KAND AND STILL GODHRA KAND WAS MORE POPULATED BY PAID MEDIA OF INDIA. WHY PICTURES OF INNOCENT HINDUS KILLED WERE NOT SHOWN TO MASSES AND INDIAN PUBLIC.

Now, does this justify killing of muslims in riots no...but no one had questioned the burning train, muslims were not questioning their heros who committed these acts...

My point is, in acts as these a lot of onus lies on the public...

POV is he did not stop the public from doing what it did...but y did public do this in the first place?? Why..? on both sides..that's a more pertinent question

infact at times i wonder...if the Indian soceity is so laid back that every tom dick and harry aggravtes them ..and turns them into a barbaric society...

if it is us..who are totally at fault, don't od naything, don't raise voice...and hence do we deserve the govt that we have!...

you are right about hindus' killings by muslim mobs... but this is what wiki says

"The causes of the initial confrontation at Godhra railway station are undetermined, it was reported that the activists had harassed Muslim vendors on the station platform, and this has been cited as a probable cause for the attack on the train.^[21] Martha Nussbaum wrote in 2008 that two independent inquires concluded that the fire was an accident and had begun inside the train, caused by combustion stoves.^[22"

Problem is BJP has been instigating muslims by bringing up babri agenda for earning hindu votes. I still don't know what was the need of that unless someone enlightens me otherwise.. Don't think hindus ever cared enough for ram or krishna mandir.It is apparently all dirty politics, who knows narendra modi may have bribed goons to start the fire killing innocent hindus and then getting license to kill innocent muslims. Ultimately poor people lost lives and probable criminal is heading to become premier of the country. But who said it was going to be fair game😭

Quote

1 2 3 4 5 6

Rajiv Gandhi - Page 3

Related Topics

Explore Topics