Why is Ram known as 'Mardyada Purushottam'? - Page 2

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RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#11
Guys,
I know some of these posts are really lengthy, but please do take the time to read them before replying back to me, or else the same questions will arise over and over again.
-Lalitha
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#12
16. Mod Prakash said:

I think the entire debate is trying to make a mixture of multiple perspectives from which one looks at Ramayana and Ram as a person. We must seprate these perspectives analyse separately

Ram as a historical personality

There is no definite timeline which is provided by any historian or archeologist, but multiple estimates put this event at 1500 BC and that make it an event 3500 years old. Now let us look at this personality in the background of the society 3500 years old and then we can imagine how much ahead this person was from his time to think about a unified country, think about a society based on values of duties, responsibilities and sacrifice. As a king, the person thought about the subjects and the views of subjects and even decided to quit his wife becuase views of his citizens ( I am not debating about right or wrong). As a king he decided to have single conjugal partner in spite of the fact that the society did support multiple marriage. His own father married three times. His views on pan Indian alliance to expand and all inclusive expansion without destroying anyone was a role model of the time. That is why he set the kingdom of dharma and defined what a raj dharma was supposed to be. Now the Agni Pariksha was something which was the rule of the day and Ram as a humab being even being far ahead of his time in his thinking could not resist this.

Ram as a religious leader

Ram never propounded any religion nor he ever asked people to follow him. Even Hanuman, Sugreev and Bibhishan were his friend, ally and follower, but no one went ahead bringing people under his thought and belief system.

Ram as a God

Ram as a God had descended on the Earth to perform certain duties and they were pre-destined. Sita had her part and role to play and she had to play that role. Ram was bound by the destiny to send Sita to vanvas. Agni Pariksha was the ritual of the time and as a human incarnation of God he had to follow the traditions.

India does not pray Ram becuase he was right on many occassion and wrong some times. It has become a matter of faith. Ram is an issue of faith. We as Hindus do not follow our religion as the semite religions do – follow the acts without any question. We keep our faith and follow the acts based on our intelligence and consciousness; but, the underlying faith on the super consciousness in the form for example Ram; does not fade. We do not interpret our religion based on what Ram did, when, why and where the act were done. We rather take the essense of the act and apply the underlying principles in our lives. Respect to our parents is something a matter of principle. That does not mean that One leaves the house the moment father asks him or her. A Hindu, under the religion has the right to debate and logically discuss it with the father and take a decision which respects the sentiments and preserves the emotions which binds the family.

Something which is a matter of faith can not be debated at the activity level. Ram even asked Lakshman to go and get knowledge from Ravana – that never means he praised Ravana. All through my childhood this episode has been cited by my elders to tell me that one should shun ego to acquire knowledge and one shoudl acquire knowledge from where ever and whoever one can.

Let us understand Ramayana as our faith and apply its principles with our rational mind.

blue-ice. thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: scratches-head

No offense to anyone, but I feel that someone like Ram is not even worthy of being worshipped, leave alone being termed as 'Maryada Purshottam'. He abandoned his wife when she was pregnant, only because he had a suspicious hunch about her, and that too planted by a washerman. She raised her kids alone, without as much as little resentment.

So I want to know that why is it that a man like Ram, who chucked his wife out only to make his kingdom happy, is being worshipped by millions today? Is he really an embodiment of 'Perfection'? Wasn't it extremely chauvinistic and downright repulsive of him to abandon the woman who came along with him in the vanvaas, and stood beside him throughout, in just a split second?
Do share your views.
Edit: Sorry if the topic has already been posted :)


When I worship Ram I worship the Lord Ram not the human form of Rama...........humans make mistakes and so did King Ram..
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#14
Why Ram is considered MARYADA PURUSHOTTAM?

for many see BANISHMENT OF SITA as a non-ideal husband behaviour

Lord Rama had to banish her away over rumors and gossip. People of Ayodhaya started questioning her fidelity. Lord Rama was now king of Ayodhaya- his first job was to serve the needs of his kingdom, take care of their happiness-this was his RAJADHARMA- which should always be given the topmost priority.

And even if at that time he had not banished Devi Sita it would have led to chaos in Ayodhaya-the same people who were questioning Sita's fidelity would have qustioned Rama's Devotion as a king
that why he gave his wife more importance then his Kingdom? He wouldnt have been an ideal king-which means PEACE OF A WHOLE KINGDOM could have been destroyed easily. Hence his action of Banishing Sita was "only left option"

actually its through these questions and the route to their anwers that I can explain that why Ram is called MARYADA PURUSHOTTAM- that is an ideal human being

see the point is that we say that RAM was an ideal human being and I wanted to justify it
IDEAL HUMAN BEING means being ideal son, ideal husband, ideal brother,ideal student, ideal friend, ideal king even ideal foe... Read More
in totality ideal in every human relation-

but where we are having problem in judging our actual doubt
our actaul doubt is what should have been given "priority"?
the same thing that makes RAM an ideal king is in contradiction to what we say an ideal husbandyes what happened to SITA was surely DISGUSTING but the thing is RAM isnt the CULPRIT its People of AYODHAYA who are cause of separation of RAM and SITA and MISERIES of SITA and not RAM

SITA was LOVE of RAM
he faught with Demon RAVANA to save SITA for he cared for her happiness, her security, her wants, her needs, her emotions if he hadnt then there was no point in rescuing SITA he could have completed his exile with Lakshamana, gone back to Ayodhaya and would have married someone else
he could have lied that SITA had died somehow to people of AYODHAYA and JANAKA
he did care for her that is why he rescued her- that is why he is an ideal lover and an ideal husband
but at that very time he was "only" a husband not a king...

when he banished SITA at that time he was also a KING not only a husband
that very situation was actually a situation of conflict where he had to choose between the welfare of his wife or the welfare of his kingdom and he chose the latter that is why we call him an ideal king
he put forth welfare of his kingdom sacrificing love of his life

firstly, I think now I have explained it enough that what happened was the only possible way to keep AYODHAYA happy
yes those werent IDEAL janta but still this was only possible decision "only left option" BANISHMNT OF SITA
yet even after banishment of SITA he is known as IDEAL HUSBAND also now here people find hard to accept it

some people ask that he could have renounced the throne
No it could have never happened AYODHAYA wanted RAMA to be their KING and no one else
the reason why all of PEOPLE of AYODHAYA cried when RAMA was given VANVAAS
the wanted RAM to be their KING and no one else and even BHARATA and LAKSHAMANA they would have never agreed to be a king when their ... elder brother was alive
AYODHAYA, LAKSHAMANA, BHARATHA everybody wanted Ram to be their king because they knew that he would be DUTIFUL to them but PEOPLE OF AYODHAYA they were not dutiful towards their KING and QUEEN

even earlier Bharat who was crowned the King of AYODHAYA accepeted it because he didnt wanted RAM to break the promise given by him to his father, he didnt wanted to be a hindrance in his elder brother's duty
and even he actuallynever ever accepted to be called a King he called himself a mere caretaker of the kingdom which according to him belonged to his elder brother RAM only
If Ram had given the rule, neither Bharat nor Laxman would have accepted it!!

He could have renounced the throne and given it to his brothers but people and all the sages and gurus wanted Ram Rajya which could be possible only with Ram as the King... He abolished Sita so that his subjects are convinced that their King is not keeping a Queen who has been with another man for so many months... Ram's Rajyadharma was above his Patidharma and all his personl dharmas so he had to banish sita to forest...



SITUATIONS OF LIFE
life is full of situations where our roles may become contradictory to each other !!!
the same action that makes you an ideal husband can be seen as a Non-ideal son

Because its NOT POSSIBLE to keep every one happy in this world at the same time!!!
and this something that we all must have realised in our lives because its a truth and it cant be explained with logics
this is a very fact about life that you cant keep everyone happy at the same time
we have to choose our priorities that is what RAM did!!
he chose priority!! which was in favour of AYODHAYA but total anti against SITA
RAJADHARMA prevails because peace and welfare of a whole kingdom was more important than welfare of a lady
but that doesnt makes him a non-ideal husband for his personal intentions were never to hurt her

SITA did suffer but RAM also did
because both loved each other PAIN OF SEPARATION was equal to both of them
what happened with SITA is unjust but its AYODHAYA not RAM who are the cause of this UNJUST
this is the point I wanted to put forward

They set right many of the wrong beliefs & traditions of their times by opting the route of "Personal Sacrifices".Many people don't know that Rama also rescued Ahilya, who was a victim of wrong belief & traditions. Ram was fully aware of the character as well as the caliber of her wife, when he decided to banish her. It was meant to teach proper lessons to their Praja & the nobles. Sita fulfilled all the duties & responsibilties of queen mother by raising the future kings of Ayodhya without getting any support from Ayodhya in the most exemplary manner. Finally the Ayodhya realised their mistake, and pleaded Sita to become their queen without any Agni Pariksha. But Ram was Ram & Sita was Sita. They were only creating examples for all the humanity/future generations thru all kinds of sacrifices.

Jai Siya Ram


Jai sita maiya !!
jai jai shri ram !!
yikes thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#15

Originally posted by: blue-ice


When I worship Ram I worship the Lord Ram not the human form of Rama...........humans make mistakes and so did King Ram..

What's the difference between the two?
It wasn't just a 'mistake'. Imagine the situation the other way round. What if Sita had questioned Ram's fidelity? Afterall he was away from her for months too. Why didn't he give the so called 'Agni Pariksha'? Seeta spent every second of her time in the Lanka chanting 'Shri Ram', and her abandonment can be waved off as a 'mistake' ?
@Lalitha: Thankyou for the posts, I'll read them and reply to you in a while :)
blue-ice. thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: scratches-head

What's the difference between the two?
It wasn't just a 'mistake'. Imagine the situation the other way round. What if Sita had questioned Ram's fidelity? Afterall he was away from her for months too. Why didn't he give the so called 'Agni Pariksha'? Seeta spent every second of her time in the Lanka chanting 'Shri Ram', and her abandonment can be waved off as a 'mistake' ?
@Lalitha: Thankyou for the posts, I'll read them and reply to you in a while :)



The same difference that is there between a God and a human being......
-Believe- thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: scratches-head

I'm really not aware of other prophets/avatars who have done something like this,-- you should aware other things also buddy...I think Lord Ram got doubt his mind,..doubt is a state of mind, anyone can happen these things...but if we check other avatar/prophets ,they done more than this😃,.......what you think Lord Ram should try for a second marriage is it! same like Prophet Mohammed,I think he married more than 8 times .Smile so I didn't take them into account, but if what you're saying is true, and we have had more than one sexist 'gods', then we're a really warped society 😆-- Ya sexist gods should wear burka!😆

yikes thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#18
@Lalitha: I did go through some of your posts, but inspite of reading through all of them, I still don't see how any of that makes a difference to the fact that Ram did chuck Seeta out. 'Raj-Dharma' was his first priority, but that does mean taking liberties with your own wife to accomplish that goal? The people of Ayodhya may have bowed infront of Ram because he completed his 'Raj-Dharma', but they always lived with the conviction that Sita must have slept with Ravan since she was there for so long. She had to live under the shadow of something she never did. If Ram really was as strong as people claim, then he should have taken a stand for his wife. Even if it meant giving away his throne. He can give up his throne for his father, but he can't do the same for his wife?
Ram rescued Sita because she was his wife. The post about Ram having the choice of just leaving her and re-marrying again just proves how it was okay for him to do anything. He didn't do a favour on Sita by saving her, it was his responsibility and duty to save her.
A king doesn't have to succumb to his subjects' wish even if it's wrong. Infact, it kind of gives me the impression that Ram's throne was more important to him than Sita, because had it not been that way, he would have stood up for her regardless of the consequences. If anybody deserved that respect, then it was Sita. Ram was exiled once, but she was exiled twice.
Or he simply didn't have the courage to go against his kingdom. I'm pretty sure that if someone had raised a finger on Ram, Sita would have been ready to take a stand for him, just like she was ready to go to the forest with him before.
A wife isn't a part of someone's 'priority list'. She was Ram's significant other. His better half. And just because 90% of the people claimed that she slept with Ravan, instead of supporting her, he banished her from his kingdom to appease the people? That's what you call 'Raj dharma' ?
I'm sorry, but this cannot go down well no matter what. Even if Sita wanted to leave herself, Ram shouldn't have let her go. For her, Ram's well being and 'izzat' was always of paramount importance. She offered to leave, and he said yes.
"Maybe I should go"
"Yeah, you should"
That's about it?
_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#19
I think it depends on which way we look at it. a person has many duties- duty to his ppl, duty to parents, duty to wife/kids etc Sometimes the duties clash with the interest of the diff parties involved. Its then that one has to choose ones priority . Fulfilling duty towards one could lead to unfairness to the other.
The men should know better- they often face the dilemma of choosing whom to please- mom or wifey 😆

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