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Originally posted by: scratches-head
When what happened? :S -- "chucked his wife out only to make his kingdom happy"😊
Originally posted by: scratches-head
Well he did. Even after she gave the Agni Pariksha, he asked her to leave because his 'subjects' were not okay with a woman who had spent so much time in another man's kingdom to stay with Ram.
Ohh ok...I think there is 1000s of avatars/prohets in this world...all have different kind of exams/incidents happen in their life time.....then also people love them...people worship them...for that we cant blame anyone..sub chaltha hey...😉😊
The first point is regarding the word "outstanding". I don't have to tell you that the term is subjective, therefore open to different interpretations and to a great extent depends on context…In a limited sense, therefore, Shri Ramchandra's "greatness" can be a matter of perception – depending on whom you ask. Having said that, when a large group of people hold a particular figure as venerable, it is very likely that such a belief stems from at least a few acts of extraordinary significance and not just one single deed.
Second, as you read this post and the earlier discussion, please bear in mind that Shri Ramchandra is an "avatar" in human form and therefore has human traits – some of which we may find "ungodly".
Coming back to the question:
Why is Bhagwaan Shri Ramchandra called Maryaada Purushottam?
If you read the Ramayana in some detail and try to understand the historical context around the narrative, a few things stand out. Specifically:
1] The remarkable geographical spread of the narrative which indicates that if Shri Ramchandra was indeed a historical figure, his kingdom must have been one of the largest (if not the largest) of those times. In particular, he managed to bridge the north and south of the country – reflected in his travels during the "Vanavaas" – which should count as a tremendous achievement (I am deliberately not mentioning the Ashvamedha Yagya he performed after his return to Ayodhya)
2] The respect with which he treats the tribes and "other" people – i.e. non-citizens of Ayodhya – mark him out as a man far ahead of his time – keen on forging alliances and bringing people together rather than subjugating them.
3] The numerous stories of his fights with Asuras & Rakshas and how he emerges victorious in each of them are very likely indicative of his ability as a brilliant warrior and a superb war strategist.
4] There are clear references in the epic to his breaking of numerous social taboos…To cite two specific examples, a] his sharing meals with the Shabaras and b] his freeing Devi Ahilya of her curse. Through his deeds and actions, he exemplified the belief that all men are equal…He of course, shares this "greatness of thought" with other saints and venerated men including Jesus Christ , Gautam Buddha and Prophet Muhammad.
5] His reign – "Ram-Rajya" in popular culture – has become a synonym for a peaceful, harmonious, secure and prosperous state – almost an ideal that every government should strive for.
6] His deeds as a son, as a brother, as a husband (leaving aside the matter of Agni-Pariksha which I will deal with separately) and as a King, exemplified model behaviour and conduct and that is why he is called Maryada Purushottam.
"Maryada" meaning (by extension of the original meaning of a limit or boundary) the intrinsic moral law, ethics, customs or rules and "Purushottam" being – the best amongst men (Note that he is not called the "best amongst Gods"). Also note that "Uttam" may not mean "best" either (that would be "Sarvashreshtha"). Its meaning is closer to exemplar – or worth emulating.
Finally, try and interpret all this in the proper socio-historical context (leaving aside the deification, if you can) and then consider his various deeds and actions.
Shri Ramchandra is often cited as an epitome of "Dharmic" behaviour. But (as one of the commentators has also noted) "Dharma" (i.e. being morally and ethically correct) is contextual and is not disconnected from the socio-political context of the time of these events.
So to view these acts and events from a purely modern, individualistic (or even feminist) perspective may be an interesting intellectual exercise but such an interpretation is likely to lead to erroneous conclusions (and possibly cause offence)
Note that the word "Dharma" itself cannot be appropriately translated in English. There is no single word/phrase in English that can fully capture the various nuances and connotations of the term. As noted by commentators, "…there is no one corresponding English term that fully renders both the denotative and the connotative meanings of the term with maximal sufficiency".
Coming to the matter of Agni-Pariksha.
While it is debatable whether the event actually happened – or it was an embellishment to the original story by later writers (subsequently lodged in popular imagination through Goswami Tulsidas's Ramcharitmanas) – the episode highlights (to me) the dilemma faced by Shri Ramchandra when his duties (loosely "Dharma") as a King conflicted with his "Dharma" as a husband.
For a ruler, ancient Hindu society expected that "Raj-Dharma" should come ahead of everything else…Seen from this perspective, it becomes easier to understand why Sita Mata herself asked Shri Ramchandra to send her away (as mentioned in some versions) and why Shri Ramchandra had to do this.
The references mention that Sita Mata herself asked him to do this since she realised and understood the dilemma he was in. As an aside, some sacred stories mention a curse of Rishi Agastya that condemned Bhagwaan Shri Vishnu to living for a long time without his soulmate…this curse was ultimately borne by Shri Ramchandra (one of the ten "avtaars" of Vishnu) – and the sequence of events starting from Sita Mata's agni-pariksha and subsequent departure from Ayodhya were a result of this curse.
Here is another very interesting story that illustrates the dilemma Shri Ramchandra faced when his different duties ("Dharma") came in conflict.
Please read this with an open and sensitive mind:
Bhagwan Ram was seated on his royal throne. DevRishi Narad, Rishi Vishwamitra, Guru Vashishta and many other sages were also present in the court four counseling him. They were all contemplating on some religious issue. Right then DevRishi Narad said, "hey scholars, please let me know who is more powerful. "The God himself or His Name". After a long debate the questions remained unanswered. Then DevRishi Narad himself declared that "His Name" is higher than the person name and went to the extent of proving the fact before the dispersal of the royal court. Then Narad Ji called Shri Hanuman Ji and said, "when everyone was about to leave the court", "You will bid greeting to every Sage but not Vishwamitra because he is a king". Then turn to Rishi and said "He does not deserve the same respect and honor as others present here".
Hanuman Ji agreed and obeyed Maha Rishi Narad. RajRishi Vishwamitra was very upset by seeing this rudeness of Hanuman Ji. As he was trying to compose himself DevRishi appeared before him and said, "Did you notice the arrogance of Hanuman? He know that you have done mare favor for his lord Shri Ram by giving him the knowledge. It was because of you he could marry Devi Sita, still Hanuman ignored you
and paid obeisance to all other saints and sages. He has insulted you intentionally". Provoked by DevRishi Narad, Rishi Vishwamitra became very angry. He went to King Rama and said , "your devotee Hanuman has insulted me publically, so he should get the death penalty before sunset tomorrow for his arrogance. Rishi Vishwamitra was Shri Ram's Guru and Ram could not disobey his Guru at any cost, so he had to punish Hanuman Ji for his disrespect shown to the Guru.Shri Ram was dumb-founded for a moment because Hanuman was his most beloved devotee. The news of the death penalty of Hanuman by Shri Ram became the talk of the town and it spread like a wild fire. Hanuman Ji was very sad too. He repented for his misdeed and went to DevRishi Narad and request him to protect him from Rishi Vishwamitra's wrath and from the arrows of Shri Ram. I did that because of your suggestion (he said). DevRishi Narad replied very calmly. "Don't worry Hanuman". Don't be dismayed only do what you has been advise to do. Get up early in the morning and take a bath in the Saryu River. Then stand on the banks of the river and start chanting Shri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram. I will guarantee you, that nothing will happen to you. The next day Hanuman Ji did as DevRishi Narad told him. People from all over the kingdom gathered there to see the harvest test of Hanuman's Devotion and Shri Ram's strict values and rules (Maryada Purushottam). Then Shri Ram Ji came and stood at a distance from Hanuman's Ji and started looking at him with kindness, but he is called Maryada Purushottam so against his will he started shooting arrows at Hanuman who was fully engrossed in chanting his name Jai Ram Shri Ram Jai Jai Ram.
None of his arrows could touch Hanuman Ji. Shri Ram was exhausted but Hanuman Ji was only looking at his Lord with total surrender, love and devotion. Shri Ram used the most powerful weapons he had never used before but nothing could not harm Hanuman Ji. Then Shri Ram aimed his Brahmastra on him. Hanuman Ji kept chanting Shri Ram Mantra and did not move at all. The crowd of on-lookers was under a spell. They were calling out loudly victory to Shri Ram Bhakta Hanuman repeatedly. When DevRishi Narad notice the culminating Brahmastra he went to Rishi Vishwamitra and requested him to stop the unique battle. He said oh great sage, Hanuman Ji was very ignorant about your grace but does that make a difference in your greatness in anyway?. However this was a little drama that I directed to show the significance of "Ram Naam". Do you agree now that Naam is more powerful than Shri Ram Himself. Vishwamitra was convinced and ordered Shri Ram to stop. Hanuman Ji came and prostrated himself on the feet of Shri Ram. He expressed his gratitude and apologized from Maharishi Vishwamitra. RajRishi not only forgave him but blessed him too, that his devotion towards Ram will be the loftiest example in time to come. "So the Greatness of Ram Naam was established". [ Source ]
Patriot: I hope this has helped answer your question…I wanted to write more but am seriously short of time…This took over three days to draft and put in a final shape (I am still not fluent in these things) but I feel very satisfied having attempted this.
In my view, it is made absolutely clear in the very first sarga of the Ramayanam as to why Rama is Maryada Purushottam. Valmiki asks Maharshi Narada if he can find one person alive at that time who possessed 16 properties.
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga1/bala_1_frame.htm
The sixteen properties are (i am copy-pasting from the source mentioned above for quick ref)
1) kaH nu asmin sa.mpratam loke guNavaan kaH ca viiryavaan |
dharmaj~naH ca kR^itaj~naH ca satya vaakyo dhR^iDha vrataH || 1-1-2
meaning: Who really is that person in this present world, who is principled and also a potential one, a conscientious one, a redeemer, and also a truth-teller and self-determined in his deed
2) caaritreNa ca ko yuk{}taH sa.rva bhUteSu ko hitaH |
vidvaan kaH kaH samarthaH ca kaH ca eka priya darshanaH
meaning: Who is he conduct-wise blent with good-conduct… who in respect of all beings is benign… who is adept and also the ablest one… also uniquely good to look to
3) aatmavaan ko jita krodho dyutimaan kaH anasuuyakaH |
kasya bibhyati devaaH ca jaata roSasya sa.myuge || 1-1-4
meaning: Who is that courageous one, who controlled his ire, who is brilliant, non-jealous and even whom do the gods fear, when provoked to war
4) etat icChaami aham shrotum param kautuuhalam hi me |
maharSe tvam samartho.asi j~naatum evam vidham naram || 1-1-5
menaing: All this I wish to listen from you, oh! Great Sage, as you are a mastermind to know this kind of man, and indeed my inquisitiveness is immense…" Thus Valmiki enquired with Narada
These sixteen properties could be summarized as
1) principled
2) potential
3) a conscientious one
4) a redeemer
5) a truth-teller (satya vakya paripalakudu)
6) self-determined in his deed
7) blent with good-conduct respect of all beings is benign
9) adept
10) ablest one
11) uniquely good looking
12) courageous
13) controls his ire
14) brilliant
15) non-jealous
16) even whom do the gods fear, when provoked to war
in telugu, we refer to Rama affectionately as "padaharu gunala ramudu" meaning "Rama of sixteen properties".
In no other person you would find these sixteen properties together. For example, if a person is satyavan, he need to dharmavat.
Valmiki posed the question to see if any man, who is his contemporary, possesses all the properties at the same time!!! He didnt some historical figure. No. He asked for a contemporary example.
In my view, every child should be taught about these 16 properties by their parents (ignore the religion here)!!! These properties make a man who lives in harmony with the world.
Now people like "patriot" ask how do your prove that Rama possessed all these properties? Well Rama is not a chemical substance so one can conduct some litmus tests or acid tests to put "Tested, OK" stamp!!! My answer is simple. Read the Ramayana!!! Today there are so many translations available on internet. You dont even need to understand Samskrt!!! There are umpteen number of instances where valmiki describes Rama and without mentioning the properties proves that Rama did possess all these properties!!! Please do go through the Ramayana before you really start questioning Rama's character!!!
Rama as Maryada Purushottam is a belief that lot of people hold in this country.
However, it is not the stated policy of our state.
Nobody is forcibly made to accept such a thought.
It is not the stated policy of ancient indian scriptures as well, some of which even pre-dates Rama.
Even a staunch practioner of ancient indian culture is not required to accept Rama as Maryada Purushottam.
In fact ancient indian culture does not lay down any pre-conditions that you have to accept this God or this Avatar as your guide.
What ancient indian scriptures do is offer guidance to a person who is interested in spiritual progress.
People can choose a particular avatar as a guide, to internalise qualities attributed to that particular avatar.
The ancient indian spiritual philosophy offers different paths, depending on the temperament of the person, for spiritual progress.
You have Bhakti marga, path of devotion. Jnana marga, path of spiritual knowledge, Yoga, physical processes that aid in spiritual progress, and so on, each wide enough to accommodate diverse practitioners and their individual inclinations.
This being so, a question such as why Rama is called Maryada Purushottam arises on two occasions-
1. When the questioner wants to genuinely understand Rama and his qualities.
2. When the questioner has convinced himself of a different conclusion and is of the view that those who hold such views are ignorant, superstitious, irrational and not modern and so the question to establish that view.
In the former case the questioner can satisfy his doubts by studying the Ramayana and arriving at a conclusion one way or other, or he can approach a learned person, preferably a realised person and seek his /her help.
In the second case, there is only one solution.
The questioner should allow, as befitting a secular democracy such as ours, those who hold differing personal views to continue holding those differing views so long as those views are in no way preventing the questioner himself from living his life the way he feels.
Rama himself never declared that he is the best among men.
He did not ask anyone to call him such.
So it is entirely upto each individual to consider him in whatever form he wants to.
Boyle, who directed Slumdog may hold similar views to that of the central character of the movie, that Rama is the root cause of many killings, probably that is why he directed such a movie. So would many self styled secularists and marxists.
But neither view, of those who consider him Maryada Purushottam nor of those who consider him the cause of many deaths has any effect on what Rama was, or as he was envisaged by Valmiki.
Both views have relevance only to those who holds the view.
Those who see him as Maryada Purushottam imbibes those qualities as they cherish them.
Those who see him otherwise imbibes those particular qualities as they think about them.
In the story of Hanuman and Ram naam, while the name and its pronounciation itself has a lot of powers, it was also the devotion with which Hanuman called Ram's name that really protected him.
Hanuman saw certain particular qualities in Rama that he internalised through devotion and those qualities invoked by Hanuman shielded him.
This is the reason why Rama is called Maryada Purushottam.
More than anything else, it offers, to many people, a direction to model their lives on. That is the essence of Rama and the Ram naam.
That is also the essence of the scriptures, such as Vedas.
To view them as historical narratives or as mythological stories or as some others consider, ravings of some person under the influence of intoxicating drink called 'soma' is meaningless.
They are, like everything about ancient indian culture, Guides on the path to spiritual development.
They can not be dissected from the standpoint of so-called rationalism or scientific enquiry.
To understand them one has to travel the path they guide him on.
In ancient india rationalism and scientific temper was also a path to spiritual progress. That is why ancient indians had developed superior science and diverse philosophies alike.
Unlike this indian viewpoint of unity, the westerner seeks to dissect everything that he comes across.
His scientific temper is therefore divorced from spiritual path. His rationalism is devoid of spiritual goals.
That is why a person looking at ancient indian culture from western stand point will never comprehend what it is all about.
That is why many of our countrymen who are brought up on a western education system, a leftover of the british education system, is unable to understand or respect ancient indian culture.
—
Would be better if so called rationalists and atheists allow others of this country the freedom given in our constitution of holding personal views which need not conform to these peoples'.
While ancient indian culture gives that freedom to each individual and accepted people of diverse faith such as Jews and Zorashtrians into India, it is the modern day practitioners of secularism and rationality, those who reject the ancient indian culture, that are seen to display intolerance and fanaticism.