What is wrong not learning Hindi? - Page 5

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Posted: 16 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: azman007




i have just shown that the large majority who disagree with something does not make them narrow-minded. it only shows that people are not uniform in india and "one size fits all" WILL NOT work in an indian context.

let us live our diversity and continue with our traditions and way of life.

i hope you were somewhat swayed by our arguments. don't define india in a purely one-dimensional language based context.

The debate on this topic was purely one dimensional in terms of language but YOU used only those arguments to draw your definitions of India in these terms...not me!....You said, You thought, You believed....well this does not mean that I think on Your terms!!....anyway you have proved that you can read only what you want to see and completely failed to comprehend anything else beyond your dislike for Hindi......Yeah!I am undoubtedtly swayed by your strong incomprehensible dislike of one particular language here!

but let me clarify ONCE AGAIN....Though I'm not INDIAN in any way, I still and will always look upon this country as the most beautiful country in the whole universe barring the ugly stark realities looking right into our faces!....as IMO such realities exist elsewhere too, they only seemed more magnified in India due to its diverse and rich cultures closely interwoven in a complex composition...



we in india should be proud of our multiple cultures, languages that NO OTHER COUNTRY in the world possess, and can continue be governed as a democracy respecting people's wishes.

I doubt whether you understand the implications of your own words here!...had you been really proud, you should have been proud of all the languages in your motherland and be perfectly happy to learn any one of them if deems necessary! I don't think it will make you a lesser Indian by adopting an extra language from India which is not yours by birth!....

I being a Non-Indian I support India and Indians as though they are my fellow citizens....What would you call me?...a low level IQ person may be?!....and you know what? I don't care if IQ should be the rule of thumb to define my intelligence!.....I believe solely in the goodness of a human being even with all his flaws!...

Last but not the least,I would like to add this.......in a million years from now, if the planet would still exist, would the generations of those future years be worrying about whether Tamil or Hindi should be the language of communication... Who knows may be there will be only one language for the whole planet and no one will bother having to learn a new language then.....What would matter then just like now is the way to survive against all odds!.....

And the ONLY thing that matters to me most is to make a positive difference during my lifetime so that when I depart from this world, I'll rest easy to know that I've left behind a constructive future to my kids as part of a legacy to live life with a positive attitude and an open mind......

Edited by prat9 - 16 years ago
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Posted: 16 years ago
#42
Language is not just a form of communication. Spoken language is a representation of culture. It is a language that has evolved within the community for years and has become a part of their cultural identity. In fact language and culture have been historically interconnected.

That is why the Rosetta Stone is not merely a linguistic discovery. It was the means to unlocking a treasure of culture and history to the world. Languages and dialects can represent unique microcultures. Each native American tribe had its own custom and language. The dying of a language is often associated with the dying of a culture. It is no wonder people hold on dearly to their language.

Does a nation need a "national language"?


A common language would indeed be really nice. As we know language is a binding factor. It can be virtually impossible to pick a national language due to the sheer diversity. Very few countries really have a common national language.

However, an official language is needed. An official language is the preferred language to conduct business in. In a country that has a multitude of languages, there needs to be some common form of communication.

When India became a country it faced a challenge. Hindi was virtually unknown in the South. However, colonial influence had made English prominent. In the North with larger Hindi speaking numbers English was resisted and Hindi was still prominent. Hence, India picked Hindi and English as official languages. Each state was given the right to pick its internal official language.

As such there is really no "national" language.

The rashtra-bhasa controversy -

The problem arises because we have a large group of Indian population who feel that just like national flag, national anthem etc we need a national language. A symbol of Indian unity and pride. That would be a simple task if we were not so linguistically diverse. They are not wrong to expect that, because it would be great if we can pull it off.

However, by doing this we are asking various cultures within the country to hierarchically place an alien language above the language they cherish.

I personally know Hindi, Marathi, English & Konkani fluently, I can completely understand Gujarati but cannot speak it. I can understand French and Spanish if they speak slowly in beginner level. I am not averse to learning or needing to learn any language at all. In fact I would love to have the time to start formally learning more languages. I would not consider myself unpatriotic either. However, I cringe at the fact that some people feel I have to recognize a national Ianguage for India. It just bothers me to the core, and it hurts a lot that people would consider that unpatriotic or disrespectful.

For me languages are either ones I speak or dont. Languages are my mother tongue or not. Languages are my first language or second. Maybe its just me, and maybe I am wrong, maybe I am just another arse but accepting a national language is not easy. The rashtra-bhasha movement feels unfair.

The fear of dying -

People may think that a language will not die out or dwindle. Thats because its not a sudden occurence. It happens very very slowly. As generations go by, the number of people who know Konkani is dwindling. Apart from Goa its a language not affiliated to a state, but a coastal region. The pressure of state language, so called national language and then English. Most of my cousins do not know Konkani at all. They speak Marathi since we were in Mumbai. Some cousins in Karnataka speak Kannada. Only my Goan cousins know Konkani by default. My cousins in the states dont know any Indian language.

When the need to communicate in one language supercedes another, the superceding language will eventually fade out the other. Making Hindi "National" would require everyone to know it due to the "national" status. It would create a superceding need. Just like how state languages dominated Konkani in my family, a national language will dominate local tongues.

If I were to raise kids in the states I have a true dillemma do I teach them Konkani or Hindi (cos they must watch awesome Hindi movies) or Marathi (I am Mumbaikar afterall). Will I have time to teach all three or any combination.

Is there a need to learn -


Language is learned to communicate. Necesscity is the mother of invention. If you need to communicate you will learn. With many non Hindi speaking parts of India - a large proportion will never step out of their small towns or state lines. They see no need to learn something new. They see no need to communicate. Those who do travel or communicate with broader groups will learn. Learning langauge should be need based not requirement based.

So my perception -


South Indians should not feel hostility towards Hindi or Hindi speaking people. The rashtrabhasha movement is not exclusively based on Hindi, it is people who beleive in language for national identity and it includes a few South Indians too. Never disrespect or show any form of hostility to a language, culture or people for any reason. Do try to learn Hindi, it is the second official language in the country and most widely spoken. It always always pays to communicate and its better to build bridges than burn them. Learning a new language will be the best decision of your life. Heck my American friends try to learn Hindi because of their Indian friends.

On the other hand, people should not be expected to know Hindi or looked down upon for not knowing. There is nothing to be gained by making parts of the population that may never really be in contact with each other learn Hindi. I respect the fact that people want to foster national unity through language, but you would not want a national religion or national culture would you. Langauge is very close to personal culture and identity, its not easy to embrace a new one.

India could benefit from some federalization.

The third comment on this blog here is also well written and makes valid points - http://dlc22.blogspot.com/2005/01/rashtrabhasha.html

If there ever has to be national language it should be a neutrally constructed language - Esperanzindia.

Ash nazg durbatulk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul

If the one ring was a language....
azman007 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#43
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Posted: 16 years ago
#44
@azman07.....I rest my case. End of discussion.
Thanks.
@return_to_hades....👏
_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: prat9

Last but not the least,I would like to add this.......in a million years from now, if the planet would still exist, would the generations of those future years be worrying about whether Tamil or Hindi should be the language of communication... Who knows may be there will be only one language for the whole planet and no one will bother having to learn a new language then.....What would matter then just like now is the way to survive against all odds!.....

And the ONLY thing that matters to me most is to make a positive difference during my lifetime so that when I depart from this world, I'll rest easy to know that I've left behind a constructive future to my kids as part of a legacy to live life with a positive attitude and an open mind......

very impressive perspective prat9 👏 I do hope & pray that our human race does survive that long 😛
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: azman007

Friends,
I have always wondered why some section of the Hindi speaking population is hell bent on others learning Hindi, where as they themselves are lazy enough not to learn other languages. There are many many languages in India, and it would be very hard, nearly impossible, for someone to learn every single language. Hindi is the main language of India because it is closest to Sanskrit, and it would not be hard for a person to learn/grow up with two languages: Hindi and their own separate language (Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, etc). If everyone knows Hindi, they would find it much easier to communicate with people in other parts of India as well, whereas if they learn only the language they want, they would find it hard to communicate with others. Also, Sanskrit is our mother tongue, but it is a very tough language and many people do not know how to speak it. Since Hindi is the closest language to Sanskrit, it is the main language of India which most people, if not everyone, should learn.

Didn't our forefathers say "Unity in Diversity"? Exactly how are other cultures being threatened if someone learns Hindi?😕😳 No one is stopping people from learning the language they want, they only want them to learn Hindi as well.
What happened to the tolerance for other languages and culture? So all of a sudden, if you are forced to learn Hindi, tolerance for other languages is decreasing? Sorry, that doesn't make sense. No one is insulting other languages. They merely want you to learn the Mother tongue of India. Is that so wrong to ask of an Indian?
Isn't our national anthem written by a Bengali in the language of Bengali? It was written in Sanskritized Bengali by Rabindranath Tagore; it is more sanskrit than Bengal.


I'd like to have an open and honest debate / discussion. May be us citizens will come up with some answers. What answers? I think that as a citizen of India, or an Indian living in a foreign country, it is minimal that one should know their mother tongue. It should not be forgotten in place of foreign languages. Of course, learn as many foreign languages as you want, there is nothing wrong in that, but first one should know their mother tongue. Forgetting or abandoning one's culture, which includes language, is like forgetting one's mother. It should not be done.

Thanks.

AZ

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Posted: 16 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: angie.4u

very impressive perspective prat9 👏 I do hope & pray that our human race does survive that long 😛

Don't worry; it will. Our Kali Yug has only just started.😉
_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#48
kal Yug just started 😲 OMG !!! Then there remains a lot more to B seen & endured 😔
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Posted: 16 years ago
#49

Originally posted by: angie.4u

kal Yug just started 😲 OMG !!! Then there remains a lot more to B seen & endured 😔

Kaliyug is 432,000 years long, and since it started in 3102 BC, it means that more than 425,000 years still left!
3365 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: azman007



i was alluding to the fact that "majority of indians don't speak IRRESPECTIVE of their STATE ORIGINS" because hindi is spoken widely in only 3 or 4 states in India...in other states, the majority of the people speak a regional language. that's why i said that your point was ridiculuos.

how many states have u been out of TN? jammu kashmir, till AP (dont know abt easter states) Hindi is spoken entensively. if its not fluently then atleast its tuti futti and they can understand it atleast. and in southern states people dont know ONLY bcoz they are hostile towards it and strongly reluctant to learn.



even if Tamil was the most widely spoken language in India, I personally would NOT have argued for Tamil as the national language if a large SECTION OF PEOPLE are UNWILLING TO LEARN. It is in fact the IMPOSITION, REQUIREMENT that people from non-Hindi speaking areas learn Hindi to communicate with rest of India is what makes people allergic.

just talk abt TN rest of the india is not averse towards hindi at all and majority of them already know hindi very well.



read the last part, which says "if you have a different INDIA in mind, then I am perfectly ok living with it, i.e., if Hindi is central to your India, then I respect and live with that." how is that not broad minded?

your india?



What I meant is that "LANGUAGE ISSUE IS NOT TRIVIAL"? No problem is trivial if people have a strong CONVICTION about it. You may be CASTE neutral, but there are people in India who's central identity is caste. It may be trivial for you, but not for them.

i know many people give a LOT of imp to caste from gotra to sub caste to everything which is not something to be proud of. how can anyone be proud of something like this.😡


either you have no idea of the implications of what you wrote or you are just blind. You said that "political system in India cannot be changed because it reflects the MAJORITY people's mentality....that is precisely what I am referring to...majority doesn't mean that others have to accept the status quo..."
Majority always win if u r right then convince others and turn the majority to your side for which again u have to learn hindi.😆

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