#MBBestEnsemble#SRK#FarewellCristinaGreys#DMT2#OPKSE5*V.STRICTLY I.O - Page 113

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Awww Indigo welcome to OUAT fanclub. We love it so much, even when it is trying to shove unimpressive tracks down our throat.

MB, Bhagwatam and Krishna charitra - read these few years back, right now I am reading Upanishads , it's interesting to see how they define life, origin and system.

Right now I am trying to fish something authentic on Kartikeya , he has such diverse opinions and stories, it would be interesting to see his reactions to a lot of things.

is it just me who finds that translations of MB have downplayed women. Like it has conveniently let their different shades be represented as some light, even with Draupadi - the treatment is indulgence and never cherishing her full charisma.

I want to know how Vyas went through while writing this, his role is the crux of this story.

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

Aryan's as invaders can be argued

western scholars try to pitch this theory in order to undermine the age of aryan civilization initially, but later studies has shown aryan culture may just have originated in india itself

Ram defines the fusion of aaryan with aboriginal cultures

but scholars on this matter are highly divisive

Add to this, Indian tradition of itihaas, or that which has happened, is not History per se, and it was mostly oral. written traditions comes way way later, hence embellishment, addition by local poets, future generation has transformed what originally was the text.

Rig Veda for example do not speicify trinity, there each natural element is a God with a name. later Gods fuse together to form one God.

Rudra, the cult of rudra, worship of phallus or male part of tantra, a God who is ascetic all merged together to form Shiva

similarly, one aditya, later steps of human evolution , God of balance, cowher God together became Krishna / Vishnu.

Bak of Rigveda, became saraswati and became one with the river and so on.

Originally posted by: IndigoBlues

Interesting...I'd also read that they used to worship the elements earlier like Indra, Varuna and Agni but later they switched to 'Trinity' and others lost their relevance..and of course if they interbred there must have been fusion which explains tribes like Nagas, Rakshasas, etc.

What about differences in aryan traditions and those of other cultures? I read a book called 'Asura' where the character said that Deva traditions were rigid and orthodox while Asuras were more liberal hence the enmity. Of course it was a fictional interpretation of Raavan and his life so can't really say it's true but want to know since you're more well read than me..

I can understand why it would be debatable..exactly what confuses me. Since it is oral and passed down from one person to another it is highly probable that certain stories or characters were modified in order to keep track with changes in society. ..what was acceptable in on age probably became forbidden in another. .different interpretations, so which to believe? Or do you just base it on what is the commonly accepted truth or your own personal faith?

I hope you tolerate my questions..as I said I'm very curious.😆 Also could you suggest any site/book from where I could perhaps research on my own. 😊

Originally posted by: LeadNitrate

Am reading 'Jaya' currently throughly from start...he wrote on on Ramayana too so will buy that if exam results are good. I always seek books as reward for good results😉 I can buy from both since family visits both regularly...

Thanks for explaining. Are you talking about a business family in 21st century context or referring to some other story? If former, then only one family I can think of😆

When I was preparing for law exam had to learn a lot of history..so am aware of Buddha and the impact of movement...also that it attracted women and lower caste people and that eventually monasteries fell into decline and orthodoxy returned.

I am a HSC student..State Board. For me the law exam results matter more and they'll be out by end of May.😊

Originally posted by: IndigoBlues

Right now I'm watching House from Season 1 on Star world. Fairly intrigued, and love the main guy's sarcasm though he can be a jerk😆

Hugh Laurie is hilarious, in that dry sarcasm way. He is too British like that.

My main problem with Vedic stories is-no offense-sometimes I suspect it of having racist overtones. Apart from the Trinity, I don't always like the Devas. It seems to me Indra and the rest could be really arrogant when they wanted to be. The Aryans were invaders so it was obvious they might have had hostility for the natives. Also even though I understand it was done to preserve order in society and prevent confusion I don't like justification of caste system or treatment of women...most of which seem to be in the form of later 'appendices' which probably shows the original author never meant for them

@Bold true - Vedas made me think if we can ever truly be non-racist. Won't there always be a section behaving or bestowed as superior. The need to balance the world in black and white brings in it;s own set of racism. I sense the quest of being right and to maintain order was bore out of a selfish desire to act like God. Ironically they start with the explanation of "OM" explaining how the absolute absorbs everything finite, yet remains unaltered. It was this absolute that made me curious and to see how it has been interpreted by the Vedas.

I enjoy reading the degradation of the perfect system the Vedas offered, caste system and women degradation shows the innate need of survival of the fittest. You have to be the strong one to live , learn and survive. Was this class division and gender segregation a way to subvert the natural competitiveness.

I find most translations downplay everybody...Krishna and rama are idolized and over simplified without fully understanding them. I find it funny that people imagine God in human form but always have such simple black and white reactions to him: either dismissing him as superstition or idolizing him to a point where any alternative interpretation is blasphemy. They never attenpt to understand his complexity, his various forms. That God cannot always be perfect because the world he has created is so imperfect. All avatars of Vishnu are so different..surely shows he had a different purpose each time, maybe to fix what other avatars couldn't.

This made me so happy. Finally a voice which re-echos what I always believed, in the need to control and to subvert generations , translations have idolized Ram and Krishna even beyond black adn white. They both were fascinatingly flawed and aberrations to their ecosystems.Like Ram was born in this perfect ordered world ,where he was meant to be the "Purushottam" - the one who always does the "right", the balance he strikes as the King and the husband is intriguing. He silently defied the system in his way . I always wonder if by placing the Sita idol during the Yagna , he mocked the society builders - that irrespective of their opinion , even Sita's reflection will be perfect to sit with a King as his rightly Queen. He is made bland and too emotion-less in translations- perhaps silencing the anguish he faced while wearing the crown of just. I wonder, if even Rama wanted anyone to live the way he led his life, chained by the responsibilities and suffocated by his personal aspirations?

Krishna was the anti-dote of everything Ram.

I view Vishnu's avtaar's as a way to remind everyone that no system can ever be ideal . Every time an avtaar can to a "yog" or as I prefer to call them "ecosystem", they tried emphasizing the bad in the order. They brought out the realness of humans. They tried indicating that flaws can be good too and to say that there can never be an ideal system.

I always imagine Drau as angry and somewhat cynical.you cannot witness so much in your life and not be skeptical and hate everybody a little. I'm kinda annoyed when they try to potray her as a revenge hungry symbol of women's enpowerment..or as a loudmouth who didn't know her limits...she was so much more than that. I guess she was unlike any other woman in her era...hence the need to 'constrain' her literally at least. This is the danger with history, it easily gets distorted.

I find her fascinating in every way. She has to be angry and cynical , also I feel she was immensely perceptive, a cool mind who read the games well and someone who played the game not for just revenge but for the power it gave her, also I sense a desire for heroism in her. She got to have it, living with the five Pandavas, she would be fascinated by the splendor and the Godlike patronage they enjoyed.

More than anything , she was the first real woman of Indian mythology who was abreast with every human emotion. Alas, few popular books , have reduced her as a revenge hungry jaded Queen, the one to blame for the bloodbath but the one I hate the most is when they elude that her actions might be a reason to get Karna- that just undermines her awesomeness and probably hints at how no matter whatever a woman does , society would find a way to bring the men in the equation.

if I was in Vyas's place I would seriously go into shock seeing what my descendants got upto😆 But honestly since he was a wise sage I think he always knew. Maybe this story was just a way of letting out all those truths he had deduced about humanity and its basic nature. I don"t think he felt any regret for what the characters did..he probably experienced the same emotions they did while reciting the story but in the end he understood what their purpose was...but again would need to read a lot more to actually make a hypothesis😆

Do you think he wrote a biased version.MB at times seems to be too partial to the causes of Pandvas, almost bordering on sympathy.Ah, you think he went all Freud on humans, very possible.To his credit , his narration is very humane in it's presentation compared to other mythologies.

Do tell me more about Kartikeya (as in shivji's son? Or is he some author)and the Upanishads though...😊 I always imagined Kartikeya to be a warrior...I didn't know of any philosophies he might have had..ugh im so ignorant bahut kuch seekhna padega😆

Murugan as he is fondly called in South , though he is generally referred as son of Shiva and the reason why the Devas plotted to get Shiva married to Parvati , I feel , still his birth is too complex to be understood so simply. Just his root was Shiv in origin , the conditioning of Agni dev and the nuture of Ganga made him who he was.

Warrior par excellence. He is worshiped massively in the South , perhaps because he ruled the area and had his clan based there. That brought him closest to the masses, first for someone so omnipresent.Yet it's his complexity about the 6 senses, which is super interesting. Also he is very downplayed in North . It is fascinating to see the clash of literature from North and South about him.

Hi war time philosophies are impressive and it is widely noted that he had the superior knowledge about the origin that even the trinity could never comprehend in proper words. Also he was the one who stopped the ritual of sacrificing animals for prayers.

I am just curious to see him as the son and to learn more about his views on how he observed the world and it's chaos. Cannot help but hope to see the family dynamics too.