Chandra Nandini 11-12: A Greek farce - Page 7

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#61
First of all, a very happy Deepavali to you and your family as well, my dear Shreya. For us Tamils, the Narakachaturdashi is tomorrow, Saturday early morning, and that is when we will celebrate it. For North Indians, it will be on Sunday evening , for the Lakshmi puja. Usually, though, ours is in the morning of the same day, though not last year and this year.

Before I go any further, something more about the Arthashastra, for we Indian diplomats study it, and there have also been extensive studies on it in recent years.. One such in One Hundred Years of the Arthashastra, published in 2013, by the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA) in New Delhi . The IDSA has also just completed a 3 volume study of Kautilya and his Vocabulary. There are many more such books, which together mark a resurgence of both interest in and detailed study of this seminal work.

What you have written about Sir William Jones establishing the link between the Greek references to Sandrocottos and Chandragupta Maurya is absolutely correct.

As for the Arthashastra being lost to us and the world till 1904, while your note is correct for the most part, it was not a few palm leaves but a whole palm leaf manuscript that was handed over to Dr. Shamashastry of the Mysore Oriental Research Institute. That stands to reason, for how could a few palm leaves have contained the whole text of a weighty compilation on statecraft?

Dr.Shamashastry translated it into Sanskrit that is to say "modern" Sanskrit, as opposed to the Sanskrit of the 4th century BC - in 1909, and into English in 1915. The latter hit the English-speaking and in fact the whole western world with gale force.

It was similar to the upheaval caused by the discovery of remains in Harappa and Mohenjodaro. In that case, history was known to have begun with Alexander's arrival in India. So what was to be made of the spectacular ruins on the banks of the Indus and lost Saraswati, dating to millennia before 323 BCE? Similarly, to find an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft and economics upset the ideas of the rulers about the uncivilised and unsophisticated nature of the colonised Hindus.

However, as far as translations of the Arthashastra go, the gold standard is RP Kangle's 1965 version.

Some supplementary comments about your post.

-What? You are actually concerned about Helena appearing too early in CGM's life? I cannot believe this!😆 No point in expecting any similarities of any of the classical works either, including the Mudrarakshasa. I shall just coast along, unflustered by anything that is thrown at me!😉

- After reading your comments on the Chanakya-Chandragupta scenes, I was struck by how differently two people can perceive the same visuals. I was entranced by the power and the beauty of both the lines and the performances, and the way in which they illuminated the unique bond between the guru and his prize shishya. Your reactions are totally different, and do not touch at all on what really moved me. Interesting.

No, Alexander's army did not defeat him. It actually saved him for a while longer, though the retreat was a horrendous exercise that almost did him in as it was. If he had gone further into India, his army would have been decimated and he would surely have been killed in battle. Which would not have been at all good for his heroic legend. So his army saved his legend as well!

Shyamala Aunty


Originally posted by: sp108

Dear Aunty,

Firstly, a very Happy Deepavali!

My replies in red.

tejaswiniwenham thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#62
ah finally I am through catching upto the show AND your analysis aunty and can finally contribute to the discussions! ok so far the things i like about the story are ofcourse chanakya, rajat as usual is on point acting wise and chandra's character is actually shaping up to be focused and disciplined- a characteristic i find often missing in most heroes of these vaguely 'historical' fiction that indian tv has of late been obsessed with. they always make the heroes pettily arrogant or a hopeless lover boy who takes far too much interest in his household than any king of old wouldve ever had- which often simply takes away from the strength of their character and the intrigue of their journey and reduces it to mills and boons. i lack the taste and the patience for those "epic" romantic heroes unfortunately. so on that note a very good start.

however, i must confess that i have no love lost for most of the 'villains' of the show- starting from nand and his 'villain' laughter to malayketu (i hope thats the right name?)- they are such caricatures of villains- i mean its 2016 and we are still stuck with the male version of komolika with a ravan laughter lifted straight off of 1961 ramayan. but in contrast i absolutely LOVE avantika. she is wonderful, poised and dignified, both in her deceit and despair. you can tell she is royalty and nand is NOT- i dont know if the writers are far-sighted enough to have done that intentionally or not, but its striking. BUT unfortunately, you can also tell that NONE of her children are in the slightest bit royal, which brings me to our second titular character- nandini.

as you may recall from our PR days, i have a deep dislike of self-righteous characters who think themselves to be very clever. the only thing worse than an ignorant fool is one that insists that what they know is the 'right' knowledge. and nandini is just that. how a non mentally challenged woman in her teens can not know what a terrible king her father is, is beyond me, especially when her brothers and father are casually murdering people in their bhavan, it mayve been believable if nandini like princesses of her time stayed put in their quarters or gardens and didnt prance around everywhere, but now it just seems ridiculous. further, her 'fierceness' just comes off as an attitude problem- her haughtiness with those inferior to her social position is appalling and her scrappiness towards her 'equals' is just nerve grinding. her 'edge' doesnt make her cool or layered cos you know its all bark and no bite- in contrast to helena whom you can tell is a dangerous woman. I cant recall one scene where i have enjoyed her at all. C minus on the heroine.

it will inevitably be the story of how chandra shows her the reality and how she 'tames' him and shows him real love. well to me it seems the only one who needs taming is her and not through a love story but rather making her helena's maid wouldve do nicely. bottomline- indian tv is rife with silly loud mouthed 'chulbuli' girls and nandini is just one of them. and as for the premise of the story- what is with all this hate and trying to kill chandra and forced hate-love story? was it not fairly common in history to marry the daughter of the king the victor just slayed? werent princesses trained to accept such terms for peace? alexander himself did so! i dont understand why ekta has decided to make a show about an annoying fictional character and chandra! at most she can be the annoying second wife, the embittered helena of the recently ended ashok (that was an unbearable show on so MANY levels- even mohit raina couldnt save that storyline).

on that note, i must discuss helena and the apparent beef indian tv seems to have with this character. so far so good though, i actually like her character- she is fierce in her pride, love and loyalty. i see nothing wrong in her responses and unlike nandini she isnt a happy cloud of air-headed haughtiness. but soon enough she will be reduced to a ruqaiyya equivalent, yet another great empress reduced to komolika on tv. by all accounts helena was a significantly valued and trusted woman in CGM's life- he thus entrusted the kingdom to her and bindusar when he left it all. she was a great lover of indian culture and the greek version even claims that she (NAMED DIODARA NOT HELENA) and durdhara were but one and bindusar her child, some even claim a star crossed romance of two individuals whose great divide of family opposition, difference in religion, culture and historical animosity was overcome in love and CGM conquered her father for her hand. thus i find it difficult to understand why tv always portrays her as a resentful villain. and why ekta would go for the love story of a historically non-existent character and CGM to show some silly love hate story is also well beyond me- surely such a basic love story couldve been shown in a much less expensive setting! so im going to hope that the political intrigue of the story- which is genuinely very interesting and characters like chanakya, chandra and helena- oh! and a shout out to mura as well, shes a cool crazy queen- will be given enough screen space so that i can just ignore princess scrappy doo and still watch the show. once that ceases to be the case, it will be over and out for me with this as well!

PS: im so sorry to hear of your illness shyamala aunty! yes i was expecting back then, gosh it was so long back! my son's 3 now and i finally had a girl last year as well. my worst half, haha, is alright- busy so travelling a lot. ya i am the exact same way nowadays with tv shows, as it is a barely have time at all for them given im at work for ungodly hours and then with the kids for the rest. but i watch atleast 2 shows at a time right now im watching shakti and chandra-nandini. tried watching ishqbaaz for a bit but it got stale pretty quick.
Edited by tejaswiniwenham - 8 years ago
shailusri1983 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#63
Hi, I'm Shailaja. This was a very interesting take on CN till now. I too like Avantika's character a lot despite the sorry beginning they gave her. I differ a bit on Nand. Malay is a true cartoon, Nand is not. He can be pretty menacing and give the creeps. They have mellowed him down a lot in showing his fatherly side of the character that it looses its sting. It now seems that he is like a snake whose venom has been extracted. But that is not the case.

He can relapse any time into his wickedness. So I am still expecting the Badass from him during the final war sequences between him and Chandra. If at all he fails, he will not redeem himself even during his dying moments when he will pass on his hatred and venom to his daughter Nandini. I don't think he will be guilty or apologetic for whatever he has done even while dying.

Regarding Nandini, I have two theories. One, she might not be so good, innocent and virtuous at all. Seeing the kind of genes with which she is tagged with, on the one side Avantika and on the other side, Nand, it would actually be the eighth wonder in the world if she turned alright or an apostle of peace. It takes a great deal to shake off such a birth and upbringing in such an atmosphere. The only reason I can see why she did not turn out real bad or negative and remained essentially flawed must be due to the fact the Nand kept her out of most of his shady dealings.

But at the same time, we cannot say that she must be ignorant of her father's true character or been mistaken in her assessment of what kind of a king her father was.

She might have considered all this her divine right and privilege. She perhaps never had any issues with anything her father did, right or wrong, because a king is above law, and he is law himself. He can make or break any number of rules, and he is above any law or punishment and accountable to none kind of mentality.

This could be her growing up story, a Buildungs Roman! So love might actually force her to see what she never intends to see. It could make her give up her delusions and false pretensions and teach her to respect the intrinsic merit of individuals.

It could make her see that everyone is accountable for who he or she is at the moral and ethical level, and nobody can shrink from or run away from their duties and responsibilities. It could be her tale of shaking off her nature and nurture through the harsh experiences life teaches her.

She could be the kind of person Austen's Emma Woodhouse was, in some respects even worse and unfeeling. I have always seen the reformation of bad boys by supposedly good girls on Indian TV. For a change I would love to see a bad and flawed girl being reformed and transformed by a good boy. I want to see how Chandra and her love for him will actually help her rise up in love.

The second option, much simpler, she is a blinkered horse. She has a normal vision but sees only what her father shows her. To whatever aspects he does not show her, she stays practically blind.

Originally posted by: tejaswiniwenham

ah finally I am through catching upto the show AND your analysis aunty and can finally contribute to the discussions! ok so far the things i like about the story are ofcourse chanakya, rajat as usual is on point acting wise and chandra's character is actually shaping up to be focused and disciplined- a characteristic i find often missing in most heroes of these vaguely 'historical' fiction that indian tv has of late been obsessed with. they always make the heroes pettily arrogant or a hopeless lover boy who takes far too much interest in his household than any king of old wouldve ever had- which often simply takes away from the strength of their character and the intrigue of their journey and reduces it to mills and boons. i lack the taste and the patience for those "epic" romantic heroes unfortunately. so on that note a very good start.


however, i must confess that i have no love lost for most of the 'villains' of the show- starting from nand and his 'villain' laughter to malayketu (i hope thats the right name?)- they are such caricatures of villains- i mean its 2016 and we are still stuck with the male version of komolika with a ravan laughter lifted straight off of 1961 ramayan. but in contrast i absolutely LOVE avantika. she is wonderful, poised and dignified, both in her deceit and despair. you can tell she is royalty and nand is NOT- i dont know if the writers are far-sighted enough to have done that intentionally or not, but its striking. BUT unfortunately, you can also tell that NONE of her children are in the slightest bit royal, which brings me to our second titular character- nandini.

as you may recall from our PR days, i have a deep dislike of self-righteous characters who think themselves to be very clever. the only thing worse than an ignorant fool is one that insists that what they know is the 'right' knowledge. and nandini is just that. how a non mentally challenged woman in her teens can not know what a terrible king her father is, is beyond me, especially when her brothers and father are casually murdering people in their bhavan, it mayve been believable if nandini like princesses of her time stayed put in their quarters or gardens and didnt prance around everywhere, but now it just seems ridiculous. further, her 'fierceness' just comes off as an attitude problem- her haughtiness with those inferior to her social position is appalling and her scrappiness towards her 'equals' is just nerve grinding. her 'edge' doesnt make her cool or layered cos you know its all bark and no bite- in contrast to helena whom you can tell is a dangerous woman. I cant recall one scene where i have enjoyed her at all. C minus on the heroine.

it will inevitably be the story of how chandra shows her the reality and how she 'tames' him and shows him real love. well to me it seems the only one who needs taming is her and not through a love story but rather making her helena's maid wouldve do nicely. bottomline- indian tv is rife with silly loud mouthed 'chulbuli' girls and nandini is just one of them. and as for the premise of the story- what is with all this hate and trying to kill chandra and forced hate-love story? was it not fairly common in history to marry the daughter of the king the victor just slayed? werent princesses trained to accept such terms for peace? alexander himself did so! i dont understand why ekta has decided to make a show about an annoying fictional character and chandra! at most she can be the annoying second wife, the embittered helena of the recently ended ashok (that was an unbearable show on so MANY levels- even mohit raina couldnt save that storyline).

on that note, i must discuss helena and the apparent beef indian tv seems to have with this character. so far so good though, i actually like her character- she is fierce in her pride, love and loyalty. i see nothing wrong in her responses and unlike nandini she isnt a happy cloud of air-headed haughtiness. but soon enough she will be reduced to a ruqaiyya equivalent, yet another great empress reduced to komolika on tv. by all accounts helena was a significantly valued and trusted woman in CGM's life- he thus entrusted the kingdom to her and bindusar when he left it all. she was a great lover of indian culture and the greek version even claims that she (NAMED DIODARA NOT HELENA) and durdhara were but one and bindusar her child, some even claim a star crossed romance of two individuals whose great divide of family opposition, difference in religion, culture and historical animosity was overcome in love and CGM conquered her father for her hand. thus i find it difficult to understand why tv always portrays her as a resentful villain. and why ekta would go for the love story of a historically non-existent character and CGM to show some silly love hate story is also well beyond me- surely such a basic love story couldve been shown in a much less expensive setting! so im going to hope that the political intrigue of the story- which is genuinely very interesting and characters like chanakya, chandra and helena- oh! and a shout out to mura as well, shes a cool crazy queen- will be given enough screen space so that i can just ignore princess scrappy doo and still watch the show. once that ceases to be the case, it will be over and out for me with this as well!

PS: im so sorry to hear of your illness shyamala aunty! yes i was expecting back then, gosh it was so long back! my son's 3 now and i finally had a girl last year as well. my worst half, haha, is alright- busy so travelling a lot. ya i am the exact same way nowadays with tv shows, as it is a barely have time at all for them given im at work for ungodly hours and then with the kids for the rest. but i watch atleast 2 shows at a time right now im watching shakti and chandra-nandini. tried watching ishqbaaz for a bit but it got stale pretty quick.

Edited by shailusri1983 - 8 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#64
WARM GOOD WISHES FOR A VERY HAPPY DEEPAVALI AND AN APOLOGY

Folks,

First of all, to those of you who have already celebrated the South Indian Deepavali this morning, Gangasnanam aachcha?

For the others, who will be celebrating Deepavali tomorrow, beginning with the Lakshmi pooja on Sunday night, though I plan to be back with my new thread tomorrow instead of today, to be on the safe side, I would like to wish all of you and your families a joyful, colourful and safe Deepavali tomorrow.

I am having problem with my eyes, thanks to viral conjunctivitis, which has hobbled me for the last 3 days and made it hard for me to respond to the interesting comments on my last Wednesday's thread. But I shall do so at the earliest that I can manage it. Please bear with me!

I cannot, for the same reason, as also the ongoing stream of visitors to wish us a happy Deepavali, post my triptych thread for episodes 13-15 today afternoon. I will try and get it out tomorrow; the episodes were quite interesting.

In any case, as I very much doubt if any of you would have had the time to read it till Monday, it hardly matters!😉 Nonetheless, my apologies for being a laggard.

Warmest regards to all of you from,

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#65
Happy diwali aunty and all viewers
Get well soon aunty
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#66

Originally posted by: shailusri1983

Hi, I'm Shailaja. This was a very interesting take on CN till now. I too like Avantika's character a lot despite the sorry beginning they gave her. I differ a bit on Nand. Malay is a true cartoon, Nand is not. He can be pretty menacing and give the creeps. They have mellowed him down a lot in showing his fatherly side of the character that it looses its sting. It now seems that he is like a snake whose venom has been extracted. But that is not the case.

He can relapse any time into his wickedness. So I am still expecting the Badass from him during the final war sequences between him and Chandra. If at all he fails, he will not redeem himself even during his dying moments when he will pass on his hatred and venom to his daughter Nandini. I don't think he will be guilty or apologetic for whatever he has done even while dying.

Regarding Nandini, I have two theories. One, she might not be so good, innocent and virtuous at all. Seeing the kind of genes with which she is tagged with, on the one side Avantika and on the other side, Nand, it would actually be the eighth wonder in the world if she turned alright or an apostle of peace. It takes a great deal to shake off such a birth and upbringing in such an atmosphere. The only reason I can see why she did not turn out real bad or negative and remained essentially flawed must be due to the fact the Nand kept her out of most of his shady dealings.

But at the same time, we cannot say that she must be ignorant of her father's true character or been mistaken in her assessment of what kind of a king her father was.

She might have considered all this her divine right and privilege. She perhaps never had any issues with anything her father did, right or wrong, because a king is above law, and he is law himself. He can make or break any number of rules, and he is above any law or punishment and accountable to none kind of mentality.

This could be her growing up story, a Buildungs Roman! So love might actually force her to see what she never intends to see. It could make her give up her delusions and false pretensions and teach her to respect the intrinsic merit of individuals.

It could make her see that everyone is accountable for who he or she is at the moral and ethical level, and nobody can shrink from or run away from their duties and responsibilities. It could be her tale of shaking off her nature and nurture through the harsh experiences life teaches her.

She could be the kind of person Austen's Emma Woodhouse was, in some respects even worse and unfeeling. I have always seen the reformation of bad boys by supposedly good girls on Indian TV. For a change I would love to see a bad and flawed girl being reformed and transformed by a good boy. I want to see how Chandra and her love for him will actually help her rise up in love.

The second option, much simpler, she is a blinkered horse. She has a normal vision but sees only what her father shows her. To whatever aspects he does not show her, she stays practically blind.



Your thoughts are very probable

The real dhanannad daughter must have been a hi-fi royal born with silver spoon never faced any hardship or reality of life

Chandra was exactly opposite, all he saw was hardships and wars and terrible danger to life atleast till his late 30s

So it would chandra who enlightens her to reality about life rather than other way round

But being Ekta show and heroine mahaan concept nandini will teach him about love and humainty etc

I too wish chandra would teach nandini about life about love and humanity and reality rather than other way

I disgaree that chandra has no idea of love and humanity - chandra loved his mom(and dad too) very much and would do anything to make them happy and smile, but chankya has brought him up in different way a heartless warrior a machine kind.
But still chandra has humainty and love - how he onsoles helena when her heart broke




Edited by myviewprem - 8 years ago
kautilya04 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#67

Here's wishing you a happy, sparkling and prosperous Diwali, Shyamala aunty :)

Hope you make a swift recovery. Please take good care of yourself.

As you know, I don't watch the show. I follow your posts simply because I'm in love with your exquisite writing <3 All the posts so far have been really enjoyable and informative, and your superb wit is the icing on the cake. I have to say...the vivid descriptions of the scenes are indirectly making me break my resolution 😆 because I can visualise the happenings easily through your words. Thank you for the PMs, and I'll be waiting for the next one.

@Khushi - Thank you once again for telling me about aunty's posts :)

shailusri1983 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#68
I too feel the same. Chandra does not need a heart. He has one and it beats in the right place for the right causes. It is Nandini who has to grow up and learn a thing or two about the world around her and humanity. There was one promo where she dresses herself up with a spiky dress to kill her husband. She tells I am no coward to take my life by jumping in the fire. I will kill my enemy by taking him in my embrace. Which Mahaan heroine will think of doing such an evil thing? Did Jodha ever think something like that for Jalal? Even she had equal causes and reasons. It is the kind of stuff Lady Macbeth or Catherine de Medici specialized in. Nandini can be very cruel and stone-hearted if she wants to be. The seeds for that are all there. This is actually a story of how Lady Macbeth transforms into a Viola or Desdemona in love!



Your thoughts are very probable

The real dhanannad daughter must have been a hi-fi royal born with silver spoon never faced any hardship or reality of life

Chandra was exactly opposite, all he saw was hardships and wars and terrible danger to life atleast till his late 30s

So it would chandra who enlightens her to reality about life rather than other way round

But being Ekta show and heroine mahaan concept nandini will teach him about love and humainty etc

I too wish chandra would teach nandini about life about love and humanity and reality rather than other way

I disgaree that chandra has no idea of love and humanity - chandra loved his mom(and dad too) very much and would do anything to make them happy and smile, but chankya has brought him up in different way a heartless warrior a machine kind.
But still chandra has humainty and love - how he onsoles helena when her heart broke





Edited by shailusri1983 - 8 years ago
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#69
Happy Deepawali, Shyamala Aunty & All 😃,
May the coming year bestow unlimited happiness on all of us...I guess if we are happy, that means all our needs & wants are fulfilled 😆
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#70
Then, don't u think I deserve a gift ?😉😆

Originally posted by: kautilya04

Here's wishing you a happy, sparkling and prosperous Diwali, Shyamala aunty :)

Hope you make a swift recovery. Please take good care of yourself.

As you know, I don't watch the show. I follow your posts simply because I'm in love with your exquisite writing <3 All the posts so far have been really enjoyable and informative, and your superb wit is the icing on the cake. I have to say...the vivid descriptions of the scenes are indirectly making me break my resolution 😆 because I can visualise the happenings easily through your words. Thank you for the PMs, and I'll be waiting for the next one.

@Khushi - Thank you once again for telling me about aunty's posts :)

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