How will kjo and alia come out of this? - Page 7

Originally posted by: pathaka

Ofcourse they can see bias duh...

But that won’t stop anybody from having a bias..insiders who struggled to get into bwood will continue to launch their kids like mr bachan.they will continue to like people they like and prefer them...what exactly can u sue/change abt that?

what u can change is someone bullying someone else which can be proven. Or someone writing malicious gossip. Again, which can be proven by disproving the gossip.
bias will continue to exist whether anybody likes it or not. There is nothing one can do abt people being biased towards ppl they like.

Just like here in the USA a certain nonprofit or company can be investigated in they don't have a certain number/quota of African Americans or women in their nonprofit or company. I think India should consider doing something along those lines to help nepotism problem too. Pass a law that in order to keep your production house going you have to have a certain number of outsiders. Just like people originally thought of affirmative actions to protect African Americans from the discrimination they were facing in the college selection process.

There was a study done by Pager that an African American without a criminal record was more likely to not get hired than a white person with a criminal record. Thus some people took some actions with the quota system. Just my two sense about what can be done.

Originally posted by: pathaka

and again ur saying “how much more beautiful “ or “how terrible” someone was which are subjective metrics

When numerous people keep saying it. It can only be considered subjective to some point. Alia did get very bad reviews for her performance in SOTY. Based on that ideology people like Karan can keep selecting insiders because it was there subjective opinion and we can throw merit out the window.

Originally posted by: grumpydwarf

Just like here in the USA a certain nonprofit or company can be investigated in they don't have a certain number/quota of African Americans or women in their nonprofit or company. I think India should consider doing something along those lines to help nepotism problem too. Pass a law that in order to keep your production house going you have to have a certain number of outsiders. Just like people originally thought of affirmative actions to protect African Americans from the discrimination they were facing in the college selection process.

There was a study done by Pager that an African American without a criminal record was more likely to not get hired than a white person with a criminal record. Thus some people took some actions with the quota system. Just my two sense about what can be done.

It’s easier to regulate / counter bias if the merit is something quantifiable ....like scores, exams, qualifications, degrees ..any person who can meet that score can get in.

In a profession where ur “getting in” is based on how much someone liked u, I’m not sure how this will work. U don’t have any metrics to prove ur worth there that u are indeed competent.

But anyways, good thought

Originally posted by: pathaka

ok. Let’s say we equate entrance exams and scores to auditions

80/100 is a quantifiable and absolute requirement. If u meet this mark, u get entrance into the college. If u don’t u don’t.

How does one quantify an audition? It’s based on how much producers “liked” someone...their performance, body language, how much they “suited” the role...

say someone who got 40/100 got into college but u didn’t and u got 100/100. Then u can actually present this fact and say “I made the cut, they didn’t ...so where is my justice”

Say someone rejected ur audition coz u didn’t “suit the role” or they “liked someone else better” ...how do u go and counter that?

If the result of an audition Is based on something that can’t be quantified and is subjective, what exactly can u sue filmmakers with if they say they didn’t like ur performance?

@Bold. What performance or body language are we talking about here? That's a flawed point in itself as many starkids don't even audition to begin with. Let us start there. They don't even give this so-called "entrance exam" you speak of. The system in Bollywood is highly flawed. The big meaty roles are already reserved for star-kids. The small indie films, side-characters or television roles are usually what they audition for in this industry. In other film industries, the structure is different because there are auditions held for roles. Big actors like Emma Watson, RDJ for Iron Man, Ryan Gosling, etc. still audition for roles. Nepotism is so BLANTANTLY and glaringly obvious in Bollywood that it is shameful to even speak of to other people on how people are given a job. Not just any job. A job that makes MILLIONS OF DOLLARS that some people cannot ever fathom. People in the West already stereotype us South Asians as "scammers". Looking at the state of Bollywood, it is just a downwards spiral. There NEEDS to be a systemic change in this industry. Legit auditions need to be held without surnames and unbiased casting directors need to be put in place. But who am I kidding?!

yeah. Fans are fickle as shit. She still has great movies under her belt. The industry and fans will ooo aaah over her performance and let her win those awards.

She is not responsible for Sushant's death, neither is Karan. But I am just tired of the Bollywood popular crowd and the fans who make everything about them and not other talented outsiders. So Alia and Kjo can go screw themselves. I am ready to appreciate some other talent who had to pull themselves by the bootstrap. There is so much talent in the industry. I don't want to miss out on appreciating them because of these asshole.

@@cookies...

sure. Put a motion in place that all roles will be given based on auditions. That will help ...but note producers can still go for the star kids ...100s auditioned for soty and kjo went with aliaa who was one of the 100 and a so n so bhatt family person.

Unbiased* means u don’t base ur hiring on liking and base it on metrics . So u might not like him, but u will still hire him coz he topped his college.
What are the metrics to measure in an Audition for it to be an “unbiased” process?
height? Weight? Six pack?

Originally posted by: pathaka

@@cookies...

sure. Put a motion in place that all roles will be given based on auditions. That will help ...but note producers can still go for the star kids ...100s auditioned for soty and kjo went with aliaa who was one of the 100 and a so n so bhatt family person.

Unbiased* means u don’t base ur hiring on liking and base it on metrics . So u might not like him, but u will still hire him coz he topped his college.
What are the metrics to measure in an Audition for it to be an “unbiased” process?
height? Weight? Six pack?

Height, weight, six pack?! Is that what we can reduce an art form called "acting" into?! .No wonder the lack of talent is so apparent. Karan 'claims' to have auditioned hundreds when we all know that Alia was always on his mind. He even confessed. Otherwise that below par Bahaara audition is something a grade schooler could do in an annual school talent show. Nothing short of cringe. Karan is not a casting director and should not intervene in the process of casting to begin with. The thing in Bollywood is, they don't let a person do their job without interference. These big heads like KJo, the Khan's, Kangana, etc. all poke their heads into certain filmmaking processes that is outside of their scope of expertise. But, we as the audience have been so brainwashed and left hopeless that "oh, bias and nepotism exists so let's just accept it cuz we can't change it." If this is the mentality we are left with then change will never happen. In an industry where awards can be bought and star-kids like Rishi Kapoor boasted about buying an award back in the days, what is there to expect afterall.

As for what they should hire based on. Well, first and foremost, the acting. There is a systemic process of rounds to hire talent. I don't know, maybe follow that instead of sending the next star-kid to Le Bal, getting a lip job, nose job, and magazine shoot. Only in Bollywood does this sort of planned atrocities take place.

Originally posted by: Cookies..

Height, weight, six pack?! Is that what we can reduce an art form called "acting" into?! .No wonder the lack of talent is so apparent. Karan 'claims' to have auditioned hundreds when we all know that Alia was always on his mind. He even confessed. Otherwise that below par Bahaara audition is something a grade schooler could do in an annual school talent show. Nothing short of cringe. Karan is not a casting director and should not intervene in the process of casting to begin with. The thing in Bollywood is, they don't let a person do their job without interference. These big heads like KJo, the Khan's, Kangana, etc. all poke their heads into certain filmmaking processes that is outside of their scope of expertise. But, we as the audience have been so brainwashed and left hopeless that "oh, bias and nepotism exists so let's just accept it cuz we can't change it." If this is the mentality we are left with then change will never happen. In an industry where awards can be bought and star-kids like Rishi Kapoor boasted about buying an award back in the days, what is there to expect afterall.

As for what they should hire based on. Well, first and foremost, the acting. There is a systemic process of rounds to hire talent. I don't know, maybe follow that instead of sending the next star-kid to Le Bal, getting a lip job, nose job, and magazine shoot. Only in Bollywood does this sort of planned atrocities take place.

that six pack comment was clearly sarcasm I can’t believe how ppl are missing the point 😒 since the only measurable things in an audition are something that should never even be cared about. Ironic rite?

Yes artform of acting. How does one get metics for that? What boxes should u tick off? How does one measure screen presence ...? Suitability for the role?

None of there are being answered and all we keep saying is “pathetic audition” ...that’s still a subjective metric... well pathetic by what? Bad expression, bad face, bad screen presence , bad voice? Isn’t that all subjective ...I can question someone when there is a metric that’s not being followed to assess an individual

When there is no metric what exactly are u questioning him on?

And yes casting directors do their job but who’s to say they aren’t power playing or having bias? They do the same thing... Also karan is the director of that film..it’s kinda his prerogative to make casting decisions 😒
So this “not his job let casting director decide” is moot. It is his job as a director to pitch in.

You can't tell anyone how to spend their own money. It's as simple as that. If Karan wants to spend it on Alia, it's his prerogative. Who are any of us to put out a list of demands? Your only power is in whether you watch a film or not. Just don't watch what you don't want to. It's simple.

The reason why HW has more auditions is because it's mostly corporates that are running studios. They have no emotional investment. But even in HW, directors keep working with their favorites - like Scorcese does with Leo. You think he's auditioning for each role? Please!

Originally posted by: rkisnothot

You can't tell anyone how to spend their own money. It's as simple as that. If Karan wants to spend it on Alia, it's his prerogative. Who are any of us to put out a list of demands? Your only power is in whether you watch a film or not. Just don't watch what you don't want to. It's simple.

The reason why HW has more auditions because it's mostly corporates that are running studios. They have no emotional investment. But even in HW, directors keep working with their favorites - like Scorcese does with Leo. You think he's auditioning for each role? Please!

Working with favourite is their choice but banning others from working is a crime. After making them work for him cancelling their work is crime.So when he questions one of them or fights for his rights all these Bollywood biggies camps decides to boycott him is a crime. Blinds written against him and even interviewer are asked to female lead not interview him and bullying and mocking him is crime.