Allaudin Khilji and his 'heart'

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

Flame.

@Flame.

Rocker

+ 4

Posted: 7 years ago

#51

Originally posted by: Eggon_Snow

Marathi has quite a few Urdu words, noor though probably isn't one of them

I could be wrong, but never heard noor in marathi. Even my friends (Marathi speaking) found it odd when Kashi used it. Especially in a tradition (ukhane) that's so regional.

Quote

Eggon_Snow

@Eggon_Snow

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#52

Originally posted by: Sarah007

Your point actually brings up something that I've been thinking about lately; namely the scene where he puts the crown on her head right before he forces himself on her.

When I re watched the sequence, the impression I got was that it was almost asif he was trying to convey to her that "hey honey, this crown is as much yours as it is mine!"... It was like he was trying to rub it in that the reason she is a queen today is because of his assassination attempt; that her claim to the throne is a direct result of him murdering her dad. Clearly she was heartbroken over her dad's death and he wanted to remind her that he has given her access to power and that she should be thankful to him for that. That his assassination of Jalaluddin is a favour for her as much as it was for himself.

In fact, just before he pounces on her, he sorta looks like he is turned on at the sight of her with the crown on :-/

He was turned on by the crown and not by Mehru, which is why he starts kissing the crown. That scene when he tells her to love him and shouts "karo" was to stamp his authority on her. He was not under frenzied lust for her but was just being sadistic and torturing her because immediately after he gets distracted by the flute playing and leaves the bed, a sign that lust was not the overpowering emotion then but just a desire to humiliate her. That sufficiently done, he gets on with other things.

Also did anyone notice the parallels between that eavesdropping scene by Raghav Chetan and Malik Kafur. I think it was to show the difference between Ratan and Khilji as men of virtue and vice respectively. It is highly unlikely that Khilji was unaware of the fact that Kafur was a voyeur and was peeping into the bedroom, yet he willingly ignores it while a similar act by Raghav Chetan is punished severely by Ratan.

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

Eggon_Snow

@Eggon_Snow

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#53

Originally posted by: Flame.

I could be wrong, but never heard noor in marathi. Even my friends (Marathi speaking) found it odd when Kashi used it. Especially in a tradition (ukhane) that's so regional.

See, noor may not be one of the words, but it is possible that the Peshwas were well versed with Urdu language and the words. Parts of Marathwada were under the control of Nizam of Hyderabad and with the inroads made by the Mughals repeatedly, not to mention the original five Deccan sultanates, especially the Adilshahi on the ruins of which Marathas arose, must have ensured widespread dissemination of Urdu as a language amongst the Marathas.

Even before all of this, Khilji's conquest of Deogari / Daulatabad/ present-day Aurangabad and the subsequent shifting of his capital to Daulatabad by Mohd Bin Tughlaq, had brought theSultanate's culture and language into that part of Maharashtra.

Present day Aurangabad is still influenced by Urdu language and Nizami culture.

Edited by Eggon_Snow - 7 years ago

Quote

Mallika-E-Bhais

@Mallika-E-Bhais

Trailblazer

+ 5

Posted: 7 years ago

#54

The act was further shown to draw home the relationship between Khilji & Kafur & the sexual undertones to everything exchanged between them. Just from the minute that Kafur is introduced we can see that. Did anyone notice the dominant flirting that Khilji did with Kafur or the way Kafur was presented to Khilji? Like a new bride. Also the way Khilji says "naam kya hai" and Kafur dutifully answers, Khilji says with a glint in his eye, "Tumhaare ittar ka' or something.. I like the way their relationship was played out, the way Khilji is in such a haze of pleasure when Kafur is massaging his feet & his head drops onto Kafur's lap... There was such chemistry between Sarbh & RS, no wonder their relationship paled everyone else's 😆

Quote

Mallika-E-Bhais

@Mallika-E-Bhais

Trailblazer

+ 5

Posted: 7 years ago

#55

Flame: Also it was show how debauched Khilji was but how pure Ratan was that he banished Raghav from his kingdom. Apart from Khilji's overbearing sexual appetite & his relationship with Kafur, it was to drive home the point how animal-like he was in general.

Quote

Flame.

@Flame.

Rocker

+ 4

Posted: 7 years ago

#56

Originally posted by: Eggon_Snow

See, noor may not be one of the words, but it is possible that the Peshwas were well versed with Urdu language and the words. Parts of Marathwada were under the control of Nizam of Hyderabad and with the inroads made by the Mughals repeatedly, not to mention the original five Deccan sultanates, especially the Adilshahi on the ruins of which Marathas arose, must have ensured widespread dissemination of Urdu as a language amongst the Marathas.

Even before all of this, Khilji's conquest of Deogari / Daulatabad/ present-day Aurangabad and the subsequent shifting of his capital to Daulatabad by Mohd Bin Tughlaq, had brought theSultanate's culture and language into that part of Maharashtra.

Present day Aurangabad is still influenced by Urdu language and Nizami culture.

Not disputing any of that. Pretty sure the Peshwas understood and could probably also speak Urdu/Hindi. Yet, I do not think there would be usage of Urdu words while conversing with each other. Especially, reciting something like a Ukhane wherein pure Marathi is used even today when the bride is asked to come with something in almost all Marathi weddings.

Kashi and Bajirao adopting Urdu words while talking to Mastani seems legit, but not when talking to each other.

Its not about whether they would know the langauge or not. Its about whether they would use it in their day to day conversations. Pretty sure Ratan's character understands and can speak Urdu, but while talking to his wife about her beauty, there are high chances he would use the word sundar as that is closer to the regional (Rajashtani) and the langauge the film is based in (Hindi).

Quote

Sarah007

@Sarah007

Beginner

Posted: 7 years ago

#57

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais
^^Whats interesting is that Mehru was actually based on Khikji's Hindu queen Kamala Devi who seemed quite fascinating because she didn't bother committing Jauhar but just ran away to Khilji & became his chief-queen - apparently he loved her a lot!

Lol! Seriously?! Did not know that! :-D That's a hilarious but interesting fact! :-D Can't imagine SLB's version of Khilji loving anybody... a lot! Lol!

Originally posted by: justwatching86
The only "human" part of khilji (at least what i felt) was when he was waiting outside the fort waiting for her all night.
At the end he looked almost sad/heartbroken.

Also I felt that the "Ek dil, ek jaan" song was the "dream sequence" where they would have contrasted ratan and padmavati spending their last moments together and outside khilji waiting all night for her and lost in thoughts of her.
I found it odd that they would pick a more Urdu based song for ratan/Deepika
Definitely they had a khilji sequence in mind, which obv didn't materialize.

Initially when I watched the movie for the first time, I thought that he was simply displaying a stalkerish side of himself. But on a second watch, I realised that he isn't stalking her in this instance but simply waiting to receive her in person. Somewhere in his twisted head, he was truly hoping that his threat would be enough of an incentive to push her out of the safety of her palace and walk willingly into his arms; instead of endangering the lives of her people. He was willing to wait all night, hoping against hope that he should be the first one to receive her in person. And that, I'm guessing, is SLB hinting at a human side of Allaudin, albeit in a tiny corner of his demonic heart!

There were initially rumors that Ranveer Singh had posted a tweet about this supposed dream sequence. Don't know if it was taken down but I was left wondering if they did initially plan it but decided against it after all the protests and brouhaha it kicked off.

Now that you mention the Urdu lyrics of Ek Dil Ek Jaan, I'm guessing, you're right! I read a translation of the lyrics and it definitely sounds more relevant to Khilji's state of mind than Rawal Ratan Singh. Words like "you are my status", "You are my pride", "You are my attire", "You are my thirst", "You are my hope", "You are my crown...my Kingdom" just sounds like a distant echo of Khilji's feelings than anything else :-/

Quote

anjs

@anjs

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#58

Originally posted by: Flame.

Not disputing any of that. Pretty sure the Peshwas understood and could probably also speak Urdu/Hindi. Yet, I do not think there would be usage of Urdu words while conversing with each other. Especially, reciting something like a Ukhane wherein pure Marathi is used even today when the bride is asked to come with something in almost all Marathi weddings.

Kashi and Bajirao adopting Urdu words while talking to Mastani seems legit, but not when talking to each other.

Its not about whether they would know the langauge or not. Its about whether they would use it in their day to day conversations. Pretty sure Ratan's character understands and can speak Urdu, but while talking to his wife about her beauty, there are high chances he would use the word sundar as that is closer to the regional (Rajashtani) and the langauge the film is based in (Hindi).

I have seen this in old Marathi movies based on shivani n his life too, lot of Urdu words are used the way it is, even while conversing amongst themselves.

Quote

Mallika-E-Bhais

@Mallika-E-Bhais

Trailblazer

+ 5

Posted: 7 years ago

#59

Sarah: Apparently he did love his Hindu queen Kamala Devi who grew to be his Chief Queen, and Kafur. She had lost her daughter in the war when the King Of Gujarat/the kingdom of Gujarat that Khilji won & KD came from. Khilji used to send troops to procure her daughter because she would tell him how much she missed her daughter. To me that is love. Historians say she was found finally & was brought to Khilji & she lived with her mother & step-father & then it's another different story!!

Quote

576281

Suspended

Posted: 7 years ago

#60

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais
Sarah: Apparently he did love his Hindu queen Kamala Devi who grew to be his Chief Queen, and Kafur. She had lost her daughter in the war when the King Of Gujarat/the kingdom of Gujarat that Khilji won & KD came from. Khilji used to send troops to procure her daughter because she would tell him how much she missed her daughter. To me that is love. Historians say she was found finally & was brought to Khilji & she lived with her mother & step-father & then it's another different story!!

Kamala did not run off with Khilji..😕...She was put in the harem like any other woman won from the wars and its another thing that eventually she became him favorite...He did go back to bring her daughter but what did he do with that daughter? He passed her on to his sons who played pass the pillow with that daughter and then passed her on to the soldiers...That daughter's story was the saddest! All because Khilji and his so called lurve for Kamala?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deval_Devi