Aziz Ansari accused of sexual assault - Page 6

Originally posted by: HitchHiker_

The fact that he invited her to his apartment should have sent alarm bells ringing... from whatever I read, it appears to have started consensual but somewhere the lady had a change of heart and the man was not able to pick up her non-verbal cues...

This case is a bit confusing... anyone or both could be wrong... in such cases people mostly favor the female but there have been several instances where this was done just for publicity!!!!

But Ansari is not just any other guy conditioned to be sexually aggressive, he wrote a book about Modern romance and sex... He teaches men how to parse women's signals and respect them

Originally posted by: _Arunima_

Her story has too many loopholes. At one time of the story she was complaining about not being served the right wine. Now the site on which the story was published is using it for publicity. Such people trivializes the actual movement and hurts the credibility of real victims.

Why this whole incident reminds me pink movie ? Where the herione goes to hero's room on her own will and then happens sexual assault whatever it is ..so and so !

Originally posted by: blue-ice.

so even after she objected and said no...he continues and that is not crossing the line?

I do believe wholeheartedly that the absence of no is not a yes and all people should be taught that only Yes means yes when you are trying to be intimate with another person, especially when alcohol is involved so I do think he bears responsibility for not waiting to get a clear yes or no from her. Having said that though, for me that primarily involves women who for whatever reason cannot say no (Drunk or whatever). I am leery of accepting anything which infantilizes women as if we are not capable of making up our mind or speaking for ourselves. We are and therefore should. If a woman has entered a space where a man might reasonably expect she wants to have sex and she is capable of saying no and wants to say no, then she needs to say no not give "nonverbal cues " open to interpretation. I read the whole article and I believe, whether she intended to or not, she gave him very mixed signals. If you are engaging in kissing, undressing, and receiving AND GIVING oral sex - guess what, you are giving nonverbal cues you want to have sex! I don't find it overly shocking the man paid more attention to the nonverbal cues he liked. When she said no (finally) he stopped and watched TV with her.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Consent is not the absence of a no. Consent is a resounding yes. What Aziz Ansari did was insensitive, inappropriate and sexual assault.

At the same time, we need to be careful with the framing of the Aziz Ansari situation. He should not be lumped with the likes of Harvey Weinstein, Louis C.K, or Kevin Spacey. (at least not till we have more damning evidence). He did not prey on people over whom he had power. He did not abuse his wealth to silence his victims. He has not created a cycle of abuse. Instead, he is an asshole who is inconsiderate and repeatedly tries to have sex with someone who wants to take it slow.

While Aziz is guilty of inappropriate sexual behavior, this is a far more complicated and pervasive social problem to solve. Almost every woman out there has been a victim of such behavior. Almost every guy out there is guilty of such behavior but genuinely thinks both people had an equally good time. The guys are clueless that their partner felt they were assaulted.

Let us look at how men are conditioned.

Men are conditioned to be sexually assertive and aggressive. They are told to make the first move. They are taught to gauge their self-worth in terms of their virility. In South Asia the problem is even more complicated by things such as "ladki ke naa mein haan hain" or that persistence is romantic. Even western men are taught that women are coy and shy, that they play hard to get so they have to cajole and convince her till she relents. Even western men are taught that if they are rich, famous or have a hot body, women "want it".

On the other hand, women are conditioned to be sexually submissive. Making the first move or having sex is considered immoral or loose. They are conditioned to put up or feign resistance lest they get a reputation of being easy. Women have also historically been s**t-shamed. Why did you dress that way? Why did you drink? Why did you go to his room? Why did you make out? You were ok being naked, but then refused sex. You were OK with oral sex, then what was the big deal? Didn't you say you were into him? You prepped so much for the date, you were obviously hinting for more? And on top of this women are also given the conflicting message that if they don't satisfy the men sexually, they will lose interest.

This disparate conditioning of men and women makes dating treacherous waters to navigate.

Women do sometimes play hard to get because they don't want to be considered easy. The guy now has the burden of deciphering if she's actually not into it or playing hard to get. Toxic masculinity is telling him to persist and be aggressive. The woman is not ready or feeling it, but she really likes the guy, so she says no but relents a bit. Toxic masculinity makes the guy only see the girl give in and think "she wants it" while ignoring her initial no or discomfort. The end result is a woman who ends up feeling really violated and abused by a guy she really liked, but the guy thinks they totally had a good time and everything was consensual.

We need to raise men outside of toxic masculinity. We need to teach them from a young age empathy, respect, and consent. No means no. Don't assume anything. Always ask for permission before a sexual act. Always check in and see if your partner is doing alright. Engage in open honest conversation to ensure both are on the same page.

We also need to raise women to be more assertive about their sexuality. We also have to end s**t shaming. It is OK to have sex with someone you like. You don't have to play mind games or be hard to get. No means no. You don't have to give in sexually for a guy to like you. If you do, he's not worth your time. Be clear and vocal about your likes and dislikes.

Until we change the way how men and women are socialized, these "bad dates" will continue to be prolific. This explanation is by no means an excuse or justification for Aziz behavior. But a wake-up call that we as a society need to change so that men don't behave like Aziz.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-...


Aziz Ansari is Guilty. Of Not being A Mind Reader.



I'm apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you're a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the "expos of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women's empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: "I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life. Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called "Grace not her real name and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.
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After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening she was "excited, having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends they exchanged small talk and drank wine. "It was white, she said. "I didn't get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine. Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari's apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: "Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we're out of there. Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari's kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word "no for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari's suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: "How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?'

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched "Seinfeld. She said to him: "You guys are all the same. He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the "worst night of Grace's life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. "It was fun meeting you last night, he texted.

"Last night might've been fun for you, but it wasn't for me, she responded. "You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable. He replied with an apology.

Read Grace's text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren't able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace's story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent and what constitutes sexual violence.
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We are told by the reporter that Grace "says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. She adds that "whether Ansari didn't notice Grace's reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. We are told that "he wouldn't let her move away from him, in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace's story, said that "by all indications the encounter was "completely consensual.

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace's story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it's safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don't like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, "I've had a lovely evening and I'm going home now.

If you go home with him and discover he's a terrible kisser, say "I'm out.

If you start to hook up and don't like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn't talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don't want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn't it heartbreaking and depressing that men especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists so often act this way in private? Shouldn't we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn't it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men's desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their "nonverbal cues. It is for women to be more verbal. It's to say: "This is what turns me on. It's to say "I don't want to do that. And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace's story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. "My fundamental position is that women are human beings, she writes. "Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we're back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace's story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and and this is the word most used enthusiastic. Consent isn't the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman's looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace's story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I'm sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace's story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It's called "bad sex. It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they're in a po*n film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That's somewhere I, for one, don't want to go.

I can't get what's the case here but it's either she never thought to be so intimate with him or she did not like his way of conducting himself or she was just uncomfortable. In all these cases too he just did not seem to stop and was mere desperate and hence the claims are true. It's a kind of an assault as the women clearly did not want it for whatever reason as she has a right to have one. It was not consensual at all.