Speculation and Orientation in Bollywood

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Chudailpaapi

@Chudailpaapi

Inactive

Posted: 7 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

@Bold that is exactly what I am getting at

I think LGBT visibility is also deeper than just having role models. Historically, LGBT groups have also been oppressed. LGBT folk were targeted during the Holocaust along with Jews. Many countries and states do not offer job protection. Many countries do not offer marriage equality. Even in the USA it was something new. Compared to the general cis-het population, LGBT groups have far less visibility.

Having more LGBT celebrities will give LGBT a better shot at representation in entertainment and a better chance of acceptance in society.

If you look at LGBT history in the USA, the increased numbers of stars coming out as well as increased number of LGBT roles paved the way for marriage equality and better acceptance. Millenials are being seen as the queerest generation in America.

Some people speculate on Bollywood stars with the hope that something similar will happen in Bollywood. There's also an inexplicable rush when you realize someone else is part of the team.

I am all for them to come out of closet if they are ready and willing.

Truth is there is very thin line between speculating and making fun of them. Take a look at thread opened on homosexual stars and you will know. One of the famous speculation - Best friend of gay = Gay. In past, one of the poster who was open about being gay had talked about how difficult it is for people like him to have male BFF and this kind of speculation is why no one wants to befriend them. Audience (or culture) to large extent is to blame for why actors don't want to come out of closet.

There is a famous 70's British serial called "Are you being Served?"- one of the first few serials to actually portray gay lead played by very famous gay actor (and activist) John Inman. There was pressure put on producer to remove him to a point where they turned gay character to mama's boy just so they could save the show and still retain John. John Inman used his success to advance efforts to bring homosexuality in open and to fight for their rights. But it took him some years to do so.

Homosexuality in traditional world is dicey subject and careers have been broken on the subject. Take a look at history of old Hollywood and you will see what I mean. Even Southern state of US are not exactly LGTB friendly. It is easy to be liberal in liberal environment. It is another issue to have to face the consequences in not so friendly one. So whoever does it more power to them. But I can't speculate on their sexuality sitting in my nice cozy couch while they will be the one to suffer. Just my thoughts...😊

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: Chudailpaapi
I am all for them to come out of closet if they are ready and willing.

...

But I can't speculate on their sexuality sitting in my nice cozy couch while they will be the one to suffer. Just my thoughts...😊

Legit, and completely respectable.

In my younger days when I was just coming out to myself, I relied on the internet for a community. I remember being part of a group of twenty-somethings who loved to speculate. We would chat for hours discussing speculations. A huge part of it was trying to figure who else was part of us. The other part was whose 'dar' is the most accurate.

I approach Bollywood with the same curiosity.

That being said stereotypes and judgments are wrong and should be shut down. Similarly having an alternate sexuality should never be used to mock or demean somebody. Finally, outing someone intentionally is wrong. That is why even gay people like Perez Hilton are problematic because he tries to out people. No one should be outed until they want to. That is a very personal choice.

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..Khushi..

@..Khushi..

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: return_to_hades
Regarding some of the asexuality discussion.
Sex and love are two completely different things. Treat them as two separate sets that intersect. Sex and love can occur simultaneously. But you don't need love for sex. And love does not need to lead into sex. One of the biggest flaws in society is that the two are always lumped together. This is especially true in India where sex and love are so intertwined. Sex without love is frowned upon and shamed. It is also drilled in that if you find yourself loving or being emotionally vested in someone - the only next logical step is sex and relationships.

While it was easy for me to accept the fact that sex does not need love, it took me a very long time to embrace that love does not need sex.

Seems silly to think of it because as humans we love so prolifically and asexually. We love our parents, grandparents, siblings, cousins, children, other relatives and friends. Each of those loves is unique. Some have an equation of reverence and respect, in others, we get the reverence and respect. Some are formal, some are very informal. With so many wide varieties of 'familial' and 'social' love, it seems silly that 'romantic' love comes only in one flavor that leads to relationship and sex.

During my 'younger' days I thought loving someone in a certain way meant I had to pursue a relationship and sex. I've probably ruined a few friendships because I was conditioned that its black and white and there is no gray zone. Now that I can better embrace emotions without tying it relationships or sex, I can better appreciate the wide varieties of friendship out there.

'Asexuality' is a new word in our social vocabulary. But like homosexuality, it has been around for a very long time. Homosexuality/bisexuality also were new words once even though they have been around for ages. Plato's "Symposium" talks about different variations of love. All the members at the symposium agreed that love beyond familial or physical needs was the highest form of love. It is the Greek work where the term "Platonic" is derived from.

Throughout history, people have had lovers outside their marriages. Not all these lovers were sexual. There are plenty of books (fiction and nonfiction history) on romantic friendships, especially in the Victorian era. Many people, especially women would form very intimate friendships, often writing emotional love letters to each other - but it was never more than friendship.

In later times cohabitation with romantic friendships or platonic marriages became more common. The "Boston Marriage" was sometimes a lesbian relationship, but sometimes was a romantic friendship. The book and movie "Fried Green Tomatoes" is one that can have multiple interpretations. Ruth and Idgie could have been lesbian lovers, they could have been just friends, or they could have been in love platonically.

So questions I would ask people who identify as "asexual" here is

Are you asexual because you don't want marriage/relationships? Or do you not want marriage/relationships because you are asexual?

The reason I ask is because asexuality does not equal no relationship. platonic marriages do exist. There are other asexual people out there who seek asexual relationships. There are people with other identities who do not mind asexual relationships. I know two people who married because they're best friends and want to spend their life together. They do sometimes date and have sex with other people. But there is no sex or chemistry within their marriage at all.

I personally do not like the idea of relationships or marriage. Not that I have some major aversion. Many of the common social expectations make me uncomfortable. Sex itself is a much lower priority. To me great conversations are the biggest turn on. But I don't identify as asexual - because I am astutely aware that I am a sexual being. I go through those phases when I am horny af and just need to get off - other people not required. I do sexualize other people. But I am completely open to the idea of relationships without sex. As long as its ok for me to have sex with others if I need to. More importantly, I don't want to have to remember to text someone everytime I'm late or my plans change etc. No inquisition please on where I am, with whom, doing what.

Very nice post.

Personally, I am not a big fan of marriage but wouldn't mind it if the one I love is and ACE and wants a marriage... as long as it doesn't involve physical intimacy and sex, am cool with it. But in this society, marriage means physical intimacy and sex, so from that aspect I don't want marriage. All I would want is for the one I love to love me back (in ACE way), hold my hand and walk by my side or I can do the same for them if that's what they want, doesn't make a difference. Hand holding, eye contact, hugs, caring and being there is my kind of love. The most important point being it's someone I love. Since ACE love is mostly about emotional, spiritual and heart connect, and has nothing to do with 'gender and body parts' who knows who I may fall in love with. It can be a girl or a guy or non-binary. Of course there maybe asexuals around the globe but what's the likelihood that the person who I fall for, will be an ace? And what if it's someone from same gender? See the pool shrinking? India is yet to come in terms with homosexuality... the likelihood of homo-romantic, asexual relationship which is all about love from the neck up? That too with the person you love? I really don't know lol..pool doesn't shrink but disappears.

Edited by ..Khushi.. - 7 years ago

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#24

Originally posted by: ..Khushi..

Personally, I am not a big fan of marriage but wouldn't mind it if the one I love is and ACE and wants a marriage... as long as it doesn't involve physical intimacy and sex, am cool with it. But in this society, marriage means physical intimacy and sex, so from that aspect I don't want marriage. All I would want is for the one I love to love me back (in ACE way), hold my hand and walk by my side or I can do the same for them if that's what they want, doesn't make a difference. Hand holding, eye contact, hugs, caring and being there is my kind of love. The most important point being it's someone I love. Since ACE love is mostly about emotional, spiritual and heart connect, and has nothing to do with 'gender and body parts' who knows who I may fall in love with. It can be a girl or a guy or non-binary. Of course there maybe asexuals around the globe but what's the likelihood that the person who I fall for, will be an ace? And what if it's someone from same gender? See the pool shrinking? India is yet to come in terms with homosexuality... the likelihood of homo-romantic, asexual relationship which is all about love from the neck up? That too with the person you love? I really don't know lol..pool doesn't shrink but disappears.

Looks like you know what you want and understand what it entails.

Nevertheless, I would suggest keeping your mind and options open. Since asexuality is new, you can never know how many are out there.

Also, do not underestimate others or yourself. A sexual person is not incapable of emotional or spiritual connection. An asexual person is not incapable of physical intimacy. I would never advocate someone doing something they are not comfortable with.

However, it is surprising the number of compromises people become willing to make when they click with the right person. You will be pleasantly surprised at people willing to manage or change the way they express their sexual desires. You may also be pleasantly surprised at how the emotional connection makes you comfortable with physical intimacy you never thought you were capable of. Neither will change who they essentially are. But both make some changes to accommodate each other.

There's a hilarious 30 Rock episode 'Blind Date'. Jack mistakes Liz to be a lesbian and sets her up on a date with Gretchen. Liz agrees thinking it is a friendly date. Despite the miscommunication coming out on the first date they end up on a second date. Liz expresses that she is willing to be in a lesbian relationship and let Gretchen do stuff to her. Eventually, Gretchen breaks it off because she does not want to be the one chasing the straight woman. This may not be the best example. But it is an illustration that its difficult to find people you truly click with and most humans are willing to make a lot of sacrifices to be with people.

Straight people often joke about hot celebrities they would go gay for. Gay people do the same about going straight. But the thing is that all people change depending whom they fall for.

Sexuality is fluid - whether it is gender preference or the desire for sex itself. This is not to deny anyone their identity - but the fact that humans are way more complicated than the various labels we create for ourselves. In fact, each human is their own sexual identity and that identity is fluidly evolving every moment of their lives.

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nandini v.

@nandini v.

Explorer

Posted: 7 years ago

#25

I don't know how to explain this. It's probably same way someone figures out they are homosexual that the asexuals find themselves too.. Just even more confusing.

It might become even more difficult to figure it out to yourself in a more conservative culture where even the so called normal opposite sex displays of affection/sex is kept under the wraps.. when your friends have boyfriends, when they have something more...as a teen you just watch... and as my mom used to say back then I was a child for a very very long time.. school, college, work.. i had friends, family, and technically I knew I should have another box for that 'someone special' and honestly I'd say I never ever felt the need for that? And what was cute when I was a teen and maybe even during college that so called a child attitude was no longer easy breezy. Because I looked around me and saw there was something off..

Now I'm a self confessed romance buff, I have been reading romances, watching such shows, even writing romantic stories myself.. And I get bored of detailed sex descriptions.. I would more than likely skip reading passages itself or fast forward in a movie I watch
Because the thing is that NEED doesn't exist in me. I knew technically there is apparently something called sexual attraction and that apparently to feel it for someone is the norm according to what everything says... it's just I don't know what it is?
Then I turned to the internet... first thing I guess we try checking out is if we are gay.. because that's the other alternate most of us know exist? And when u try poking around that area and figure out that doesn't exactly match the tick boxes, you search more.
I actually typed my feelings into google until somehow I stumbled across the term 'asexual'.. and I read more and it was like 'bingo' finally I had a name.. and someway to get more understanding and hopefully some answers..
I find men good looking... I like looking at beautiful women slightly more... I would like a good cuddle too and would be super happy.. But I wouldn't wanna get up close and personal with anyone without my or their clothes... it's sort of ewww!!

See probably just like a straight man/woman can have a same sex relationship for whatever reasons other than the actual 'attraction/love' and vice versa.. an asexual can and will probably have sex too because for whatever reason they are with another who wants sex.. just that they don't care for it AT ALL... or just don't get what's the great interest in 'sex' is even after doing it?

Of course there is a chance that part of them would be absolutely grossed out by the whole sex thing.. just like there are straight people who will never bring themselves to have sex with someone of the same sex and vise versa.. I belong to this lot.

I guess asexuals have it a little easy (at least if they are of the former kind who don't care at all.. but can still have sex as opposed to the ones repulsed by sex with anyone. ) because as someone rightly said above.. quite a few of our societies would assign saintish qualities to not having sexual urges.
Of course it no longer is a laughing matter when the parental expectations leads to marriages because if you are not even gay, it's literally impossible to try to convince parents that you just don't have such needs or are repulsed by it be it with anyone...but when one who is asexual is married, some will be ok.. some will lose their minds little by little and will want to escape...but will have to use that old Victorian adage 'lie back and think of England' hopefully you will get through it...

I wish same sex/marriages were not the ONLY norm when I grew up... if only... I would have had a different option..

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..Khushi..

@..Khushi..

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Looks like you know what you want and understand what it entails.

Nevertheless, I would suggest keeping your mind and options open. Since asexuality is new, you can never know how many are out there.

Also, do not underestimate others or yourself. A sexual person is not incapable of emotional or spiritual connection. An asexual person is not incapable of physical intimacy. I would never advocate someone doing something they are not comfortable with.

However, it is surprising the number of compromises people become willing to make when they click with the right person. You will be pleasantly surprised at people willing to manage or change the way they express their sexual desires. You may also be pleasantly surprised at how the emotional connection makes you comfortable with physical intimacy you never thought you were capable of. Neither will change who they essentially are. But both make some changes to accommodate each other.

There's a hilarious 30 Rock episode 'Blind Date'. Jack mistakes Liz to be a lesbian and sets her up on a date with Gretchen. Liz agrees thinking it is a friendly date. Despite the miscommunication coming out on the first date they end up on a second date. Liz expresses that she is willing to be in a lesbian relationship and let Gretchen do stuff to her. Eventually, Gretchen breaks it off because she does not want to be the one chasing the straight woman. This may not be the best example. But it is an illustration that its difficult to find people you truly click with and most humans are willing to make a lot of sacrifices to be with people.

Straight people often joke about hot celebrities they would go gay for. Gay people do the same about going straight. But the thing is that all people change depending whom they fall for.

Sexuality is fluid - whether it is gender preference or the desire for sex itself. This is not to deny anyone their identity - but the fact that humans are way more complicated than the various labels we create for ourselves. In fact, each human is their own sexual identity and that identity is fluidly evolving every moment of their lives.

Yes, if an ACE person is comfortable with physical intimacy and doesn't mind sex even thought not actually wanting it, than compromises can be made if they find the person they love and that person loves them back. The thing being that compromises are made to fit according to the 'wants and needs' of the person one loves. For instance if you don't like going to beaches but your partner loves it, than you make an adjustment and go there for your partner's happiness..that doesn't necessarily mean you want or enjoy going to a beach. What happens when this 'want and need' is about the allosexual partner wanting that their asexual partner responds to their physical needs and desires with equal desire (the desire they mostly lack)? That their asexual person at times becomes the initiator and makes the first move to kiss or more? An asexual person most likely won't be able to 'want' what their allosexual partner wants because that desire probably doesn't even exist for them..I hope am making sense. Initially some ACE people may make all the compromises once they find the one they love, but as the time passes things are more likely to get tricky because what an allosexual wants, is the 'want' that likely won't be there for an asexual. They might not mind it but unlikely that they will be able 'naturally produce' that 'desire' in them. That may not go well with allosexual partner in the long run. But still things can still work for some if they are comfortable and open to the idea.

Personally again, for ACE people who are sex repulsed, they can go for an alternate option like building a great friendship with the one they love. The only thing with friendship being that you won't get to have that 'exclusivity', 'care for me the most, give me priority' and 'romantic' angle but at least you'll still be with/around the one you love. So not really a bad compromise and may last lifelong without actually hurting anyone because both would know what to expect and what not to.

Different things can work for different people.

Edited by ..Khushi.. - 7 years ago

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 7 years ago

#27

^^^

Some of the concerns you bring up are challenges unique to relationships from time eternity. Irrespective of gender identity, sexual orientation, or sexual desire, every single relationship grapples with making compromises and figuring out what to do when comfort zones are crossed.

Relationships are not always timeless and eternal. As long as two people are on the same wavelength and the compromises are within the comfort zone it works. Times change, people change, and we all go in different directions in life. So through no one's fault, a relationship can end as people go in different directions. The potential of a breakup is a dark cloud that looms over every relationship from the first second of the meet-cute. Some people are lucky to survive it for a lifetime, not all are so lucky. But the fear of breakup later should not stop two people from taking their chances. That being said, some people are just very risk averse and that's their choice.

I think it is very naive to assume a great friendship with someone you love will last and protect people from being hurt. This is also everyone does sometime or the other. People fall for people who are not into them and embrace a great friendship as compensation. But human nature is very fickle. Friendship is also a relationship. It evolves over time. It can get closer or distant. Humans are also unable to completely purge emotions and expectations from their system. It can lead to jealousies, insecurities, possessiveness between friends and/or friend's spouses. It can lead to people being hurt and/or the end of the friendship. Again, I am not saying don't do it or it isn't a viable option. But know that the breakup cloud looms over friendships too. And it's usually much harder on people to lose friends than losing a lover.

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..Khushi..

@..Khushi..

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#28

Originally posted by: return_to_hades
^^^
Some of the concerns you bring up are challenges unique to relationships from time eternity. Irrespective of gender identity, sexual orientation, or sexual desire, every single relationship grapples with making compromises and figuring out what to do when comfort zones are crossed.

Relationships are not always timeless and eternal. As long as two people are on the same wavelength and the compromises are within the comfort zone it works. Times change, people change, and we all go in different directions in life. So through no one's fault, a relationship can end as people go in different directions. The potential of a breakup is a dark cloud that looms over every relationship from the first second of the meet-cute. Some people are lucky to survive it for a lifetime, not all are so lucky. But the fear of breakup later should not stop two people from taking their chances. That being said, some people are just very risk averse and that's their choice.

I think it is very naive to assume a great friendship with someone you love will last and protect people from being hurt. This is also everyone does sometime or the other. People fall for people who are not into them and embrace a great friendship as compensation. But human nature is very fickle. Friendship is also a relationship. It evolves over time. It can get closer or distant. Humans are also unable to completely purge emotions and expectations from their system. It can lead to jealousies, insecurities, possessiveness between friends and/or friend's spouses. It can lead to people being hurt and/or the end of the friendship. Again, I am not saying don't do it or it isn't a viable option. But know that the breakup cloud looms over friendships too. And it's usually much harder on people to lose friends than losing a lover.

True. Friendship angle is easier said than done. But I think acceptance about how things are, can make it a lil easier. I am not sure if I would even approach friendship to someone if I fall in love with them. This fear of green-eyed monster and insecurity will likely stop me from making any move at all. Besides, in most cases, sooner or later with time you learn to live with or without the one you fell in love with romantically. Not like falling in love happens easily. I think I may have fallen for someone twice in these 26 years. That time I didn't know about asexuality so probably the idea that 'love without sex happens' didn't cross my mind and I let the feeling slide. With time it was gone too. Usually, having lived with the realization that you don't want what most of the people want, half of your life, does sort of prepare you to live with minimum or no expectations of love and romance of any sort. You do become used to the idea of not 'fitting in' with most of the crowd.. and if you are an introvert than that factor takes care of the rest. So living like a loner is not weird. I do enjoy it myself... just miss the company sometimes. I think I will be completely cool if I don't ever fall in love with anyone again at all from here on. That will be awesome actually. If I had a choice, I still would choose asexuality. I don't want to change being an ACE in this life or any other life.

Edited by ..Khushi.. - 7 years ago