s Kangana misusing the feminism argument to deflect attention from rea - Page 3

Originally posted by: anonymous39

Well, nobody is perfect. We can always say "why didn't she do this and that" but she obviously does what she's capable of and that may not be a lot. It's like she goes halfway so we complain why didn't she go the whole way? I don't know.. people do as much as they're comfortable with at the given time.

Well, I started off saying she is flawed and has the image of being the rebel, pathbreaker. Thats what attracts her fanbase to her. Nobody is asking her to be perfect or abide by certain image when this one is winning her the crowd.

My problem was on her definition of feminism. Now how does that make it sound like I want her to be perfect?

She's allowed to take credit for succeeding in a ruthless industry and for making something of herself when even her own parents were unhappy they gave birth to a daughter.

Nobody stopped her from taking the credit. We have applauded her and will continue to do so .

Same goes for Beyonce. She's not responsible for her annoying fans and her strides in certain ways, speaking up for black lives matters or representing herself as a feminist don't automatically mean she's perfect in another way. I hate to keep saying this but feminism does not require moral purity or a lack of hypocrisy because in that case, nobody can stand up for anything.

Umm, you were the one who came up with , privileged and non-privileged groups. And men hating on beyonce, which is fine coz the woman sold alot of tapes. Her performance was super hit and she got great reviews and press for the same feminism which few trolls bashed. But given her album was on racism, there would be certain criticism about her lyrics if there is a blatant reference to "white girl slang".Doesn't take away from her success but doesn't mean , she is off the hook too. because all of this is part of the narrative.

Why would anything happening to Kangana be a blot on feminism? Why are bad men not a blot on men as a whole? Women are the first ones shouting "not all men" when a big rape case happens. Why is so much more expected when a woman is not perfect? How is her imperfectness something that takes away from women having the right to equality?

You didn't get the quote. but nobody cheers on men here on this forum. Khans , Kapoor everyone is criticized. Ranbir for having gfs, cheating everyone. They all, including Kangy have right to make their choices but considering some of it are on public domain, they may be viewed and opined.

So pardon me , if this is less about morality in feminism , but more about FOE .

First of all, there is no case against Kangana. HR fans have spread so much PR that it's not surprising people would think so. A legal notice means absolutely nothing. He would actually have to sue and file a defamation suit which he's never going to do. He filed an FIR against an imposter, not against Kangana. They want Kangana to talk to the police as a witness, not as a defendant. It's very very different.

Neither you or I are privy to the Court datails.We are speculating on media perceptions. I don't want to give any one the white chit here. Let Kangy file a defamation case too, she is the innocent victim. That would be some fight to win

And regardless of whether or not Kangana ever gets convicted for something else, how does that diminish feminism? Did Salman and Sanjay and Shiney going to jail for big crimes diminish men in any way? What does that have to do with women getting equality?

LOL where has this argument come up from.

If you think Kangy's media perception is about women equality , then please be at it. For me it's a very smart media image and it's working for her.

Salman and Shiney both were brutally bashed on this forum..still do. I did the same. So , if Kangy gets convicted of any wrong doing, do I have the right to criticize her or not?

This whole concept of women needing to be morally unimpeachable in order to get equality has to be completely removed. This is nothing but a pit created exactly for the reason that every woman would fail a test that hard, as would every man.

Funny, how a mere ponder over Kangy's understanding of feminism means it's morally stifling her. Which is so funny, if this statement from any other celeb would have been out, the reactions would have been so interesting. How the heck, me not agreeing to her definition means there is a question mark on her morality.

Her choices, her life. But good or bad would be viewed and evaluated because of the very public nature of it.

ETA: never mind, you edited your post about Kangana possibly getting convicted and so feminism needs to be kept away from her case

Originally posted by: anonymous39

^You edited your earlier post so of course my response now sounds strange.

Earlier you had said "oh why didn't Kangana say she is a feminist." Then came up with how if she gets convicted, it will look bad for feminism and so they need to be separated. You edited that all out. I was not responding to other things in your post at all

.My first post did question why she is not calling herself feminist and that is a pet peeve with all the celebs. They shy away from it. If people in power and privileged positions are not vocal enough then how do you plan to lure up the others.

Yes, it's a valid question too, what if she is found guilty of all charges,"what-if scenario", how would the narrative change then? Would we be able to criticize her as a culprit and not relate to her gender

What will be our reaction to that? Are we discarded the media perception from her or denying it all together.

Of course you can criticize Kangana and why not? But there is a way to criticize that is not about "poor poor men" which is the card being played on this forum. The same exists in the media too where article after article has come out insisting she not play the "woman card." No different from the whining a huge amount of white people did about Beyonce dressing like a Black Panther - don't make it about race!!

Again, her dressing didn't get as much as a the backlash as did some of the lyrics and references she used. You cannot sell 500,000 albums and stilll be the biggest brand in a country where race still is a sensitive issue.

Heck, many black people have also objected to her use of the race issue and the 5 nose reference.

And what woman card did she even play regarding Hrithik? She herself said she's not a feminist because she doesn't have the time for it and she needs to learn more about it. You had a problem with that too and wanted her to declare herself a feminist and then said it's not about feminism and if she gets convicted, it will make feminism look bad (all edited out later).

She doesn't have the "time" for it to understand feminism- my problem here. You don't need to take out time to be a feminist . I have a big problem with her definition of feminism.

Either you didn't read my entire post or you are not getting the point. The edit was as simple as that, if you use the gender card for legal matter or create a media perception about it . It might backfire . Ofcourse it will.

To you , she might not have played the gender card against HR but to me she has very conveniently did.

I am sorry if I don't buy her stand on feminism or what entitles to her point and I do rest my point in objecting to it.

She absolutely had the right to play the woman card regarding Adhayan Suman considering they were hitting her with exactly what women have been getting hit at for *centuries* - fears of black magic and disgust of their periods. If you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you. It was a strategy designed to pull down a woman in only a way women can be pulled down.

LOL where have I said she shouldn't spit it out to the Sumans. It is them who have actually given her the positive spin in recent times. But then again, should that be the reference against whatever legal entanglement she has with HR?

Yup, only Sumans and Roshans can come up with strategies,not Kangy.

*As far as the details of the case of Hrithik/Kangana, it is a fact that no legal case exists at all. Hrithik has not filed anything her. What do you mean we don't know the details? A legal suit is very different fro

m a legal notice which basically means nothing. Right now, there is no actual case at all.

Even with the police, he's filed an FIR about the imposter, not about Kangana.

Fine, you want to talk about the media perception of this case/notice whatever you would like to call. But then can we discuss her emails as well. Which s**t shamed her fellow co-workers. If we are going to bring out the legal nuances then should we not also ignore the content of those emails , which were batshit crazy too.

Like you said, centuries old f**ked up notions like a girl who can have multiple affairs is a s**t , should also be questioned.Kangy did that to her fellow co-workers . Isn't that pulling women down too? It's on print now, can I opine on it?

And what is she going to get convicted for when no case has been filed anyway?

What if it is proven that imposter was her only?

Why the heck are we treating that those emails don't exist or there is no legal mess. But a world to get to kangy because she is a woman?

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Originally posted by: anonymous39

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Why does it matter? Kangana doesn't represent womankind! If she is guilty in some hypothetical scenario, let her be guilty. That does not tarnishh women or feminism. That only tarnishes her. Salman running over people and kill them does not malign men so why would anything affecting Kangana matter regarding equality of women?

Then don't make a hero out of her too or a symbol of feminism until all angles of her dispute are sorted. For me there is a great media strategy, good for her.

Actually, Salman issue did impact alot . You probably missed out the posts that were around his conviction or are turning a blind eye towards it.

Privileged public representatives do have a responsibility too.

She is her own person and as flawed as she is, she can still be a feminist though she doesn't even call herself that. You can't expect everyone to be at the same point of enlightenment, especially in a place like India where you will be torn apart for fighting for women or even claiming you want equality.

Funny,I saw many questioning and mocking women posters here who don't subscribe to Kangy innocent theory. The same India's mainstream media feted Kangy too. So who is not fighting for her. Where is the decry for it? Sumans are the only ones mudslinging her.And they have suffered.

This is plain silly. There is always a sizable minority anywhere that can make an album successful. How much is the population and how much does her album sell? Just because some black people object to how she supported black lives matter doesn't make her wrong, it just makes her different. The same way there will always be women who denigrate feminism themselves. It doesn't mean anything.

You haver no argument but a rhetorical . Yes BLACK LIVES MATTER. But doesn't mean , Beyonce's messagw won't be criticqued. And if you don't understand how successful Beyonce's album and her persformance was in mainstream and pop media culture then you are being silly to dismiss her influence. Criticism is part of the narrative. You cannot have Feminism or equality without it too.

Race is a hugely sensitive issue if black people are getting killed at extremely high rates compared to white people by cops who are there to guard them. It is a sensitive issue when after the first black president, the country reacts by bringing to prominence a race baiter and hater like Trump. It's no different from the lynchings that followed black freedom. The privileged always fight back after a stride by a minority group is made.

Ofcourse it's a sensitive matter and a major issue and Beyonce doesn't represent it. You find it silly that her album sale was fastest of the year , I don't . But you chose to give prominence to fewer trolls who decried on her. You cannot have both ways either.

Don't try to compere Beyonce's struggle with the average person of colour. Very different and both have very different platforms.

You can look at everything from incarceration rates to education levels to police brutality to job hiring rates and a million other things and you will see a country where race is still a big issue.

It's completely baffling to say it's not because Beyonce can sell albums.

It's not completely baffling when you can quote a handful of trollers objecting to Beyonce's album while I cannot mention the widespread support she got for the same. Or how big of a star she is . Yet also, criticize her work .Why must not I object to the racial slurs of her lyrics as well.

Who says she can't? That doesn't mean it's some idiotic strategy pulled out of thin air. It's a valid response to the type of woman-shaming she was dealing with regarding period blood and black magic. What other method did she even have?

If you mean Hrithik, she mostly ignored it which was yes a wise strategy. Every side will choose their best methods so why not?

If you would have read the comments, you would have noticed, it's how the two mainstream Journos, who are known to disregard all norms , didn't questionher about HR matter . Here is the surprising element for many of us , who have know these two journos. It was their failure and how they allowed her defense against Sumans to run parallel with HR's

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If you think she invented an imposter and then wrote back and forth emails to herself, well good luck to you then. But if she did that, she would truly be mentally ill in that she would be requiring real medical help because that is way past the point of crazy and delusional to inventing fake personas and multiple personalities.

?

Who is treating the emails like they don't exist? Did you somehow miss the thousands of posts slamming her for that?

Nah , Unlike you , I earlier chose to not comment on this and still don't because the matter is under police investigation. Alot can be fabricated from the emails. Only, for you, the whole narrative revolves around this forum. I didn't see anyone considering the legal matter in mainstream media .

And again, why do you keep bringing up woman? So what if she's a woman? There can be crazy women just like crazy men. If killing people like Salman did didn't screw over men's reputations, what the heck does Kangana being a woman do? It has no relevance. She does not represent womankind. Women doesn't have their case for equality taken back because one woman may not be good. Why don't those standards apply to men?

How do you manage to make it about men at all? Can we talk about Kangy, woman or not , solely aobut her and my reactions to it?

Who has not applied the standards to men, have you skipped the comments about Sumans here too? If you accuse others of tunnel vision, you are doing the same

Please tell the reporters that she is not the representative of womanhood or feminism . They are the ones who made her there and she lapped it up

Where the heck is the fight here for equality. Sumans are losers, publicly shamed. She is the bigger star . With tremendous support - who is she fighting against for there? Isn't she the one privileged here

And what do you mean legal mess? It is a PR and media mess, not a legal mess. Facts on the ground are that they sent legal notices, which basically mean ZERO. They would have to file actual defamation suits for there to be a real legal case which nobody has done. I doubt anyone is going to do it in the future either.

Hrithik did go to the police but that is a criminal justice matter, not a legal case. The FIR is also against an imposter, not Kangana, so she is only a witness. Hrithk himself gave out a statement recently that his case is not against Kangana.

Yeah he just strolled to Police and they are messing around for the heck of it. Witness or not, she is under the jurisdiction too. Let the findings come out

Originally posted by: anonymous39

We're not going to agree on anything so there isn't a lot of point in taking this much further but I wanted to answer the media/forum issue.

But you claiming men in general getting a bad reputation because of Salman is beyond funny. One criminal doesn't affect men in general and it never did.

[quote]Only, for you, the whole narrative revolves around this forum. I didn't see anyone considering the legal matter in mainstream media .[/quote]

Um, yes, because we're debating people on a forum. You respond to what a person is writing on this forum. What difference does it make what a particular reporter is saying? Am I going to go argue with her personally? Huh?

But the quotes and context is from the mainstream media. So yes, we are arguing about the iv between kangy and the iv and it's context in terms of feminism.

You keep insisting the whole media is on Kangana's side which is not true at all. There are been countless anti-Kangana and anti-women articles posted right here from media sources. How could you have possibly missed them all since there were so many?

Did , probably you skipped my comments when i dissed those media houses and responded to it. Unlike some , who have just one skewed opinion aboiut this issue. i can differentiate between an anti-woman and anti-kangana article. Like there were anti-HR articles too.Who I personally do find guilty too.

As for her two interviews, again you're obfuscating the matter. Yes, they were PR exercises and they were nice to her. That's how the desi media is. Did you see how fawningly even a nobody like Adhyayan Suman was treated? Same media was buying everything he was selling and eating out of his hands. The Sumans also did video interviews and they got treated just as well as Kangana did. They were also PR exercises.

Not just desi-media . But every Media- hence my respect for Kangy for playing the game like that. Why is it considered a bad thing, if I appreciate her smart brains and her strategy?

LOL I also saw the trolls Adhyaan got, i myself happily troll him. I am sane enough to separate HR_Kangy narrative from Kangy-Sumans.

Sumans are fools and nothing in front of Kangy. She is the one in power and with a mostly moral right.

But somehow, the problem is only with Kangana's and how dare she use feminism but not liking that she didn't declare herself a feminist but also if she gets convicted, she will screw over feminism. How can all those things together be possible since they contradict each other? What?

My objection to her interpretation of feminism or the one both Rahul and Barkha made are separate thing. yes, I find it hilarious , how ALL celebs ( if you bothered reading , you would have picked how it was just not for Kangy), shy away from the term.

Media tripping over half baked perceptions about feminism is amusing. Your point?

Ofcourse for me it dilutes feminism at times, sad when it's just a fancy word which we can throw around without the context..which is what I felt in this iv , many times. My POV

But you want to see it as only women getting support. If you want to see that, okay. What more is there to say? You do you.

It's not about the support she is getting. Good for her and I like this strategy of hers. It is not crime to appreciate the PR and Media games played by her . Awesome.

But there are two separate issues and I like how she is smart enough to use the benefits of one over the other as well. Good going girl

Don't we all see what we want to see? Who best but you to say.