What makes icons feel insecure? - Page 3

Originally posted by: flipfl0p

Why putting words into my mouth? I never said, they should not wear gown. I clearly said, they don't have to wear to fit in. I did not say, it does not suit Madhuri's body or Kajol's body. But someone else said, it does not suit Vidya's body. Is this statement not being judgemental?

Why bring Madhuri's US stay here? Yes, I know she was abroad. She is used to wear western dresses. Not only Madhuri, any other (non film) people, above her age also wear jeans. (But I am sure, she did not have to wear gown to get groceries). Her contemporaries in India (like Juhi Chawla) also wear western clothing. But still, Juhi just remains herself, natural. She does not try to appease anybody.

Fashion keeps chaging. Yes, bell bottoms were 70s. So are some ladies salwars in 80s (or 90s?) which were stitched like Dhotis. I have seen Madhuri (or Karishma?) in such songs. I did not ask them to wear that, just because they had worn them in 90s.

Am I expecting Kajol to run in fields with Salwar? No, probably not. I don't expect them to run any more. You walk, sit and talk. That's it, you can ignite fire.

I know people, who in their teens have woken up till midnight on film fare award night, just to get a glimpse of their dream girl, who would turn up in a white salwar kameez with a million watt smile. These men in their 40s cannot associate themselves with today's Madhuri, who is very different from the image they have cherished so far (could be nostalgic factor).

Kajol these days is looking fairer than Kriti. I have seen Baazigar. Everyone knows, sitting at home with kids will not bring this huge colour difference. If someone says, audience loved her the way she was in Baazigar, DDLJ. There was no need to treat her skin, does it become shaming her dusky tone?

Originally posted by: flipfl0p

Why putting words into my mouth? I never said, they should not wear gown. I clearly said, they don't have to wear to fit in. I did not say, it does not suit Madhuri's body or Kajol's body. But someone else said, it does not suit Vidya's body. Is this statement not being judgemental?

Why bring Madhuri's US stay here? Yes, I know she was abroad. She is used to wear western dresses. Not only Madhuri, any other (non film) people, above her age also wear jeans. (But I am sure, she did not have to wear gown to get groceries). Her contemporaries in India (like Juhi Chawla) also wear western clothing. But still, Juhi just remains herself, natural. She does not try to appease anybody.

Fashion keeps chaging. Yes, bell bottoms were 70s. So are some ladies salwars in 80s (or 90s?) which were stitched like Dhotis. I have seen Madhuri (or Karishma?) in such songs. I did not ask them to wear that, just because they had worn them in 90s.

Am I expecting Kajol to run in fields with Salwar? No, probably not. I don't expect them to run any more. You walk, sit and talk. That's it, you can ignite fire.

I know people, who in their teens have woken up till midnight on film fare award night, just to get a glimpse of their dream girl, who would turn up in a white salwar kameez with a million watt smile. These men in their 40s cannot associate themselves with today's Madhuri, who is very different from the image they have cherished so far (could be nostalgic factor).

Kajol these days is looking fairer than Kriti. I have seen Baazigar. Everyone knows, sitting at home with kids will not bring this huge colour difference. If someone says, audience loved her the way she was in Baazigar, DDLJ. There was no need to treat her skin, does it become shaming her dusky tone?

Originally posted by: Justmoi

@Blue

What is a youngster's dressing sense ? Wearing dresses ? Jeans ? Ball gowns or just gowns ? And "older" women should wear sari to be considered appropriate for their age ? Is that enough or is a gunghat necessary too ? Does it apply for village women or city women too ?What about women who travel abroad frequently ? Indian women who live abroad ? What is the age which is the cut off when a women should not ape "youngster's dress sense" by wearing jeans or gowns ? 40s ? late 30s? early 30s? 🤔

Your basic assumption is wrong. Madhuri is a woman who married an NRI and lived abroad for a while. I don't think she was wearing sari and jewelry while grocery shopping. In fact jeans would have been probably what she wore. Sridevi has also worn western clothes consistently. It is not that they wear 9 yards and gunghat at home and western clothes on screen and off the red carpet. This is not a saas bahu serial where the women are unnaturally made up and loaded with jewelry or a purani bollywood film where the western heroine wears so called sanskari clothes from western to be 'appropriate'. I have consistently seen Kajol wear jeans in her real life and western clothes for promo, but stuff like Durga Puja she is in full sari, though no gunghat. It is the way they live their lives like countless ordinary women in cities in India all the time. How is it their insecurity, possibly others but not theirs.

@Red

As for Gerua, SRK-Kajol are not imitating the younger generation's actions Watch closely. The exotic location and visuals are a pale imitation of Suraj Hua Madham, but the actions are from that ever green song standing in the fields of Punjab, right from SRK turning his head in the beginning, to the hugging from behind, SRK opening his arms and Kajol running to him, to Kajol running her hand in his hair, SRK Kissing her on the forehead and neck, and the running to each other. It is all there. In fact the scene where he kneels before her in the cave near the water fall has a similar DDLJ "Tujhe Dekha Tho" similar vibe. You can even see the gazebo scene of KKHH in the dancing. SRK himself has signature moves he does with most of his heroines, the opening of the arms is one such. He and Kajol have moves that they have repeated for 20 plus years right from Baazigar. I've watched this couple and DDLJ since I was a child. It's all there. This film is a tribute to DDLJ. but it has moves that they have repeated from all their previous films. If anyone is copying anyone, it is others trying to recreate their magic, not SRK and Kajol

Originally posted by: Justmoi

Today's men who are in their 40s and woke up for their dream girl Madhuri, how do they look ? Have they let themselves go with paunch and let their hair grey naturally ? Or do they work out, dye their hair and generally dress more professionally as they get better paying jobs.

Madhuri is not in the her 20s, she is close to 50. She always dressed well, she is consistent. Did she have work done ? Probably. But in a profession where 50 year old Khans who she acted are acting with girls in their 20s, she needs to up her game in terms of look if she ever wants to have a career.

Kajol is famous for her unibrow. She did not even take time to do her eye brows. That may have been acceptable then, today if she were starting out, audiences would not accept her if she looked like that...

If she does not look groomed if the role does not call for it, even SRK and Rohit Shetty would not cast her. They would look for a Deepika or a Katrina. Movies are not a charity. To be competitive, plastic surgery or dermatology is an option.

Originally posted by: flipfl0p

Yes, 40s men try to look fit, die their hair. So how do they expect Madhuri? Do they expect her to be fat and grey haired? Probably not. They would of course like a toned bodied, well dressed, a beautiful middle aged woman. They neither expect Mads to look like Waheeda Rehman, nor expecting her to be Deepika or Alia. Each belong to a different era and each are beautiful in their own way. Kajol's uni brow or Karishma's thick eyebrow had been changed even before they took break. Kajol looks fitter now, which I like. Apart from that, she did not have to do anything to the skin.

In 80s, when South Indian women opted for Salwar over Saree or half Saree, it was comfort over tradition. Not just aping north India. Similarly when Indian women in general opted for jeans in 90s or 2000s, again it was not for aping west, but more for comfort. Nowadays, the trend of looking up to west is changing in India. People no more being apologetic (rather confident) towards their skin tone. NRI kids feel proud of their Indian lineage. This article says how Indian ads being unapologetic about themselves, while as Pakistani ads trying to be glossy. When I read that, I remembered even our ads (like Complan) used to be glossy. But we stopped pretending to be someone else, after a while.

But Bollywood has certain kind of inferiority complex. Starting from its name to mimicking west in award function, they try to look glossy. If divas like Madhuri have boldness to present themselves with a fit body, salt and pepper look in salwar or jeans, they have the potential to set a trend amongst middle aged women. They can redifine a modern middle aged Indian women. What they are doing right now is to adopt to the situation, though they have the potential to turn the situation.

I have not been able to associate myself with Madhuri's recent movies. Her age is definitely not the reason. Aaja Nachle lacked content. My urban sensibilities could not appreciate Dedh Ishqiya. Secondly, her pairing with Nasiruddin Shah. With due respects to his talent, that pairing was as good as Salman-Sonam pairing. I prefer to see Madhuri in romantic movie with 40-50 year old men, in urban backdrop. I don't want to see a "Choli ke peeche" from her anymore. A matured story like Behadd, a Pak drama. So what, if Khans prefer to act with younger heroines? She was not dependent on them in her peak, there is no need now either. She can act with good looking popular TV actors (like Rohit Roy or Rajeev Khadelwal).

Instead of competing with youngsters who act in movie with a crappy script, she is in a position to look out for good script. But I think, Madhuri's script sense is not as good as Sri's.

I have diverged enough from the main topic. 😆 I felt the Garua song focussed more on SRK-Kajol posing at beautiful drops over their chemistry.

Originally posted by: Cortana

Bollywood is a cutthroat place where the current tastes change so fast. It literally changes people and people who don't change with the time to fit in are steadily pushed out. Even some who do change are still not rewarded. So if actresses that are icons are trying to keep up with trends or trying new things it's not always a bad thing, some are doing it because they want to stay current and some are just embracing new avenues including new styles. Nothing wrong with that.

Also as it has been seen heroes are less likely to work with actress from their own time even when those actresses can still work. Who wouldn't feel insecure when everything they worked for (and the status they have reached) is slowly being taken from them and they are being replaced for a myriad of reasons. They spent time and effort to become divas, to become legends but if that isn't even good enough to get them more movie offers now then what use is it?

Plus I disagree that the audience would still accept them if they ( SRK-Kajol) stayed the same. Yes people want the same chemistry but they are looking for new things in movies. Tastes have changed and you can't always sell nostalgia without doing something different that people want. The audience will spot it and reject it.