Amitabh's shyness, stardom & the smell of

Those who work in showbiz often say they primarily do it for recognition as against money. When does money stop mattering to you?

I think it would be incorrect for anyone to say that if there is a job that's showing a prospect of wealth, much more than you may have been making at a certain point of time, you're not attracted to it. I was working at a managing agency house in Calcutta, making Rs 500 a month. With tax cuts and other expenditures, I used to get Rs 300 in my hand. Then I read an ad that promised Rs 2,500 a month, were I to be selected in the contest. The attraction of the sudden jump in my salary and that I would do something that I enjoyed as an extra-curricular activity (acting) was tempting, of course.

From Rs 500, you jumped to Rs 2,500 and now into crores.

Money is not the most important thing. Yet, it has its value. One does get tempted by material things in life. You want to get a better standard of living – it's a normal human instinct. For some reason, if I was unable to get it, I'd be satisfied and happy with whatever I have. I always tell my children and close friends that yes, God has been kind to me. But I was born in a little, private doctor's clinic in an area called Katra (in Allahabad), which is like, well, there aren't any comparisons in Mumbai that I can cite (to give you an idea). You have to be in a small town to understand it. Katra is like, perhaps Chandni Chowk or Karol Bagh in Delhi – even smaller than that. I was brought home in a tanga (horse-carriage) wrapped in a 'gudari'. How do I explain gudari – it's the cloth you make sacks from. If I go below that, I'd be worried! So in the worst case scenario, I am a 'gudari ka lal' so I don't mind going back to the situation.

Did your peers or parents ever think you'd make it so big, as it were?

I don't think they were looking at the size of the popularity the profession could bring me. Like all parents, they were just anxious to know whether through the work I am doing, I will (be able to) achieve a certain amount of success. Creativity needs success to survive. I don't attach too much to the hoopla around success per se. These are yardsticks prepared by the media, and I don't contribute to it.

35 years of being under a constant public gaze. Has there been a time when you've felt that you've had enough; that you wish the tree outside your house or your tax files were not a national concern? Or that you could walk around like the ordinary guy and just have pani puri on the streets whenever you felt like?

I can do that now. If I want to go out and have pani puri, I can. I drive my own car. I drop my kids to the airport like I did this morning. So it's not all that bad. Through public gaze you gauge how you're doing in your profession. I'd perhaps be forlorn if it weren't there. When people wave at you or smile when they see you, you feel good for the fact that you're doing something that's being appreciated. There are times when you get hit, people throw bricks, and abuse you too.

Did your peers or parents ever think you'd make it so big, as it were?
I don't think they were looking at the size of the popularity the profession could bring me. Like all parents, they were just anxious to know whether through the work I am doing, I will (be able to) achieve a certain amount of success. Creativity needs success to survive. I don't attach too much to the hoopla around success per se. These are yardsticks prepared by the media, and I don't contribute to it.

Also, 35 years of public frenzy, fans going wild across the country, being surrounded by yes-men.... As a fallible human being, where do you get your reality-check from?

I genuinely believe that I am no different from anyone else. Popularity is not real, it is entirely due to the medium, to which I am thankful. If you remove the medium, everything will disappear. I have never contributed towards yes-men or people who boost your ego every two minutes. So I am alright so far as that's concerned. I know who my friends are. I have few of them, but I have them in a very sincere capacity, and I trust them. If I am unable to understand a certain situation, I like to be 'knowledged' about it – whether it's my attitude, or mundane things like how to dress, design my house, or the laws of the land, income tax...

I started learning about financial matters very recently. It's never too late to learn. I had a finance department, and so I would remain care-free about such matters. The philosophy there was that one should not crowd a creative mind with worldly chores. But along with everything else, you have to be conscious about aspects that are important.

What about being judged for every action?
That's a part of public life. If you become a celebrity, there are certain codes and ethics that at least I would like to follow. Nobody's born without errors. I have several faults, and I hope that if I make mistakes, I will be apologetic about them, and rectify them, by being penalised for them.

Also, 35 years of public frenzy, fans going wild across the country, being surrounded by yes-men.... As a fallible human being, where do you get your reality-check from?
I genuinely believe that I am no different from anyone else. Popularity is not real, it is entirely due to the medium, to which I am thankful. If you remove the medium, everything will disappear. I have never contributed towards yes-men or people who boost your ego every two minutes. So I am alright so far as that's concerned. I know who my friends are. I have few of them, but I have them in a very sincere capacity, and I trust them. If I am unable to understand a certain situation, I like to be 'knowledged' about it – whether it's my attitude, or mundane things like how to dress, design my house, or the laws of the land, income tax...

I started learning about financial matters very recently. It's never too late to learn. I had a finance department, and so I would remain care-free about such matters. The philosophy there was that one should not crowd a creative mind with worldly chores. But along with everything else, you have to be conscious about aspects that are important.

Do you miss any particular friends – who are either no more, or not your friends any longer?

Friends are important, yes, but I am usually quite happy by myself, doing my own thing.

Do you miss Rajiv Gandhi?

Yes, certainly.

Will the purported feud between the Gandhi family, particularly Sonia, and you, forever remain a matter of public speculation?

These are really personal matters and I do not wish to talk about them. But far too much is made out of it. And far too much importance and print is devoted to it, when it should really be left alone.

You've been the subject of media attention for the longest. How do you perceive its present, lively, paparazzi avatar? Do you think that what the public may be interested in has become more important than public-interest?

I don't know. There are about 200 TV channels and there must be at least 10 or 12 really important and standard newspapers. Is it physically possible for somebody to go through each one of them? So what happens then is that you question, what is it that you can do to attract eye-balls? So you have interesting news items on TV, you make your newspapers colourful with attractive headlines that perhaps can sensationalise and attract your attention. The 6-column stories need not necessarily contain what the headline states. But at least you read them and move on. And if you bought the paper for those reasons, then it's a success too. So it really works both ways. There is a paper like Chennai's The Hindu, for example, that maintains a certain ethics-oriented dignity, reserve and a contemporary flavour. And there are some that sensationalise, but it's a media policy. It's much like artistes. I choose to work in a film like Black, and I (also) choose to work in something frivolous like Bade Miya Chote Miya – that's my personal decision. Naseeruddin Shah, by far one of the best actors we have, chooses to work in a Sparsh or much more meaningful cinema – that's his personal choice. What is really exciting is that the younger generation is taking over. The average age of people working on a film set, for example, is about 21. It's absolutely unimaginable. And girls – we never saw them on film sets in the 70s and 80s. Suddenly the balance is equal. They all treat each other like equals - backslapping, talking the same language... The phrase 'man to man' doesn't exist anymore.

We know you abhor the term 'Bollywood', its connotation being 'B-grade Hollywood'. But how do you feel when you have to watch, say Denzel Washington, in an English film (Man On Fire), and being told to play the same role for a Hindi film (Ek Ajnabee). Do you sense a poverty of original ideas?

Yes, of course, we should not become a victim of that. But let's look at it the other way – how challenging can it be if I have seen something and I try to present exactly the same thing differently, or portray it in a different manner. That's something quite innovative too. I believe director Apoorva Lakhia did that for Ek Ajnabee, though he had the opportunity to replicate the (Hollywood) original. How wonderful is it to appreciate the difference between The Magnificent Seven and Seven Samurai... Or Devdas, for instance, and see how Sanjay Leela Bhansali made it so operatic and full of colours, and did not succumb to the Bimal Roy version – much to the consternation of the purists.

Since Amitabh Bachchan's 'Angry Young Man' in the 70s/80s, there has not been a single super-star, whose persona has attracted both the urban and rural India. Shah Rukh Khan may be a prime draw in overseas and metropolitan movie theatres – his films are unlikely to even open in theatres in Bihar or parts of UP. Likewise, say, actors like Sunny Deol, who hardly makes a dent among the urban elite. Are the two Indias too fragmented now for a common screen image to appeal to the entire nation's aspirations?

Hindi cinema's execution is very tough, because it is the only cinema in the country that has to cater to every part – unlike regional cinema that gets its patronage from Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Bengal, Gujarat and so on. We have so much diversity. How do you cater to it? Also, there is no single universal cause that's been identified in people's minds. Before, there was the freedom struggle; or frustration over failure of the 'system' as Salim Saab and Javed Saab have spoken about. The Angry Young Man is certainly not novel or new, and certainly not identifiable with me. Sunil Dutt was an angry young man in Mother India. Look how powerful that role was. Much before that, there was a great actor called Ullas who was an angry young man. I was just fortunate enough to be standing at a bus-stop and climbing on to a bus that passed by. So if I were to go along with your argument, look what happened to Mrityudata! The actor and the character was the same. But times have changed. People don't identify with it anymore. They want someone fun-loving, with a guitar, mustard fields, pretty women around, dance, colours...

Few hours before your long surgery at the Leelavati hospital last month, replying to our best wishes, you messaged, "Still a long way to go." At moments like these, what are those things you think of that you have yet to achieve?

Well, I didn't really know at that time that I was to go in for surgery. (The way all of it happened was that) I was breaking journey in Delhi, on my way to Dehradun for a family wedding. I got up in the morning with a nagging, unusual pain. My doctors told me to take some tablets, but the pain didn't go. Then, to get some tests done, I went to my son-in-law's hospital (Escorts), where I had to drink a contrast for a CT scan. While I was waiting (in the hospital), I took a pain-killer that had an adverse reaction on my body and I just began to sweat and feel a burning sensation. I couldn't breathe. When you're in that condition, you look for immediate relief. But when you don't see relief coming you think, "Hey, something is really wrong here. Perhaps I am in for something worse." But I still don't know why I sent that message to you.