DOTW: Why is K-Jo still allowed to make films? - Page 2

Originally posted by: roxthefox

Thanks for the support, Anu. 😛

I agree with your post, especially with the bolded part. He seems to do that a lot in his films: objectify women in such a way to make it seem like they're without substance. Oh, and not to mention how he always makes the 'western' world look like it's full of vice and corruption, while India is pure and should be used as a benchmark for all other cultures. What a ridiculous notion!

I'm looking forward to all the terrorists and goras joining hands, and singing 'Sarey jahan se acha, Hindustan humaraa...; 🤢😆

First of all, a wonderful post Roxy :D You've made valid points and I agree with you. Coming to Karan Johar and his film on terrorism and post 9/11, this is indeed a sensitive subject. And I don't feel that Johar will be able to handle this topic with sensitivity. He is known for his fluffy flicks, I seriously doubt he will be able to do justice to such a relevant subject. There is a great deal of misunderstanding between Muslims and non-Muslims, in particular in the West and there are people that misunderstand Muslims. I know this from experience and by witnessing others. So no one can deny this. But my concern is whether Johar will be able to find the right balance to portray both sides. I don't want it to be black and white....not a muslims VS white people type of film. It's not so simple and I feel that he will not be able to touch upon the shades of grey.

Wallah hi another interesting discussion Roxy.. yesterday it was Zainu, today you.. the critters are on a roll.
Can I just say I badly needed something to cheer me up and get my mind of cricket. It was so damn depressing to see India get out of the world cup. ARGGGGHHHHHH... Though I am happy that England won, but kya kare phir bhi dil hai hindustani..😆 So let me get back to the actual topic..

Ok you know how much I loathed Dostana, the film was so demeaning to gay people. Personally I don't think I would have mind the actual concept of two guys pretending to be gay, had it been handled in a better manner, and the sensibilities of gay people not been mocked. I am not against entertainment, but there is a way of portraying such subjects, and marketing the movie. His approach was so cliched about how gay people act etc. I was never expecting a Brokeback mountain of him, but the film didn't even manage to deliver to standard of I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry. According to me, his biggest mistake was the marketing strategy that he used. I vaguely remember him trying to market the movie by projecting it as some sort of saviour and him being the messiah for gay people and their rights.

He could have prevented the movie going the cliched way, but alas he didn't and managed to make it in to an overdrama as usual. My biggest problem with KJo films have always been his characters; I have always found them very weak in terms of matter, and the story either to be very preachy, stereotypical or just plain penny romance. I watched KKHH at a young age hence I liked it, but when I re-watched it, I realised there were many glitches and it was very stereotypical. I am not saying it was a bad movie over all, but I wish some more exploration of the conflict between love and lust had been done in a more substantial manner. But I guess KKHH is more like a chocolate that you can't avoid but take guilty pleasure in, but in the end it leaves nothing of substance behind.

K3G, yet again had a decent message, but the treatment is what went wrong with the movie. The over preachiness and Lataji's voice blaring the aaaaaahhhhh aaaa Kabhi kabhi khushi kabhi gham...after every second post interval made the movie unbearable to watch apart from certain scenes. What was worse was the over grandeur shown in the movie, was there a real need for that. This is what I fail to understand from the likes of directors like KJo and Sanjay Bhansali.

Ok I know you most probably will not agree with me on this, but I actually liked KANK to an extent more than his other two earlier ventures. The reason being is that I think it was most probably his most daring venture; to deal with infidelity is not so easy. I am not going to say that he did a wonderful job, or that his treatment was amazing. I actually liked the overall concept that he was trying to portray about marriage. It was not done the way I would have liked; again the problem being the over glamourising of the subject, that being his biggest problem. Ok I'll add one other thing I liked in the movie better that the other two, were the female characters. There was a certain substance to them, if you compare them to KKHH Anjali and Tina (to an extent) and Anjali (to an extent) and Pooooo from K3G.

I think the blame of movies such as Dostana being hits doesn't lie solely upon the director/producers but on the public too. Its as much the audiences fault, actually may be more who watch and appreciate the stuff that is served rather than be crtical about it. If movies such as A wednesday, Firaakh etc start getting better exposure than may be this big producers and directors will start making better cinema. I guess that is the only way Indian cinema will move ahead. It is as much our responsibility to appreciate good cinema as it is of Bollywood to make them.

Entertainment is as much necessary as serious cinema, but good entertainment is what is lacking in cinema these days. Regarding KJo's attempt at terrorism, again I am not expecting a master piece, but will hold back my comment until the movie comes out. It will definetly have its fair share of candy floss as usual, but I sincerely do hope his attempt is better than his previous ones and is not a typical gora is bad chants.

I can't be bothered to write more about Karan Lafunga...😆( I was watching this british comedy sitcom that has started, its on the Indian call centre culture; its bloody hilarious. They just had Chunky Pandey in it today playing an actor and he was called Chunky Lafunga..😆 hence the name.)

Whatever your saying is probably right but i mean to tell the truth i liked Dostana, and that's an understatement. It was just a lighthearted commercial flick with awesome songs, what i'd expected. KJO's stuff is shallow to an extent, true, but he's not the type who'd ever make films that truly make you think, he just wants to make cash. It makes sense! Even if KJO feels he was projecting some message about Gays, he's obviously in a deluded world but i liked Dostana it was just funny tho i agree they didn't really dress PC appropriatly at times to say in the least! & some it was all very 'stereotypical' gay ideas but you know its fine coz my cousin's friend is gay and he just found the film funny-no offence taken. He's english and watched it with subtitles but still you know.

Originally posted by: *Huma*

Wallah hi another interesting discussion Roxy.. yesterday it was Zainu, today you.. the critters are on a roll.
Can I just say I badly needed something to cheer me up and get my mind of cricket. It was so damn depressing to see India get out of the world cup. ARGGGGHHHHHH... Though I am happy that England won, but kya kare phir bhi dil hai hindustani..😆 So let me get back to the actual topic..

Ok you know how much I loathed Dostana, the film was so demeaning to gay people. Personally I don't think I would have mind the actual concept of two guys pretending to be gay, had it been handled in a better manner, and the sensibilities of gay people not been mocked. I am not against entertainment, but there is a way of portraying such subjects, and marketing the movie. His approach was so cliched about how gay people act etc. I was never expecting a Brokeback mountain of him, but the film didn't even manage to deliver to standard of I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry. According to me, his biggest mistake was the marketing strategy that he used. I vaguely remember him trying to market the movie by projecting it as some sort of saviour and him being the messiah for gay people and their rights.

He could have prevented the movie going the cliched way, but alas he didn't and managed to make it in to an overdrama as usual. My biggest problem with KJo films have always been his characters; I have always found them very weak in terms of matter, and the story either to be very preachy, stereotypical or just plain penny romance. I watched KKHH at a young age hence I liked it, but when I re-watched it, I realised there were many glitches and it was very stereotypical. I am not saying it was a bad movie over all, but I wish some more exploration of the conflict between love and lust had been done in a more substantial manner. But I guess KKHH is more like a chocolate that you can't avoid but take guilty pleasure in, but in the end it leaves nothing of substance behind.

K3G, yet again had a decent message, but the treatment is what went wrong with the movie. The over preachiness and Lataji's voice blaring the aaaaaahhhhh aaaa Kabhi kabhi khushi kabhi gham...after every second post interval made the movie unbearable to watch apart from certain scenes. What was worse was the over grandeur shown in the movie, was there a real need for that. This is what I fail to understand from the likes of directors like KJo and Sanjay Bhansali.

Ok I know you most probably will not agree with me on this, but I actually liked KANK to an extent more than his other two earlier ventures. The reason being is that I think it was most probably his most daring venture; to deal with infidelity is not so easy. I am not going to say that he did a wonderful job, or that his treatment was amazing. I actually liked the overall concept that he was trying to portray about marriage. It was not done the way I would have liked; again the problem being the over glamourising of the subject, that being his biggest problem. Ok I'll add one other thing I liked in the movie better that the other two, were the female characters. There was a certain substance to them, if you compare them to KKHH Anjali and Tina (to an extent) and Anjali (to an extent) and Pooooo from K3G.

I think the blame of movies such as Dostana being hits doesn't lie solely upon the director/producers but on the public too. Its as much the audiences fault, actually may be more who watch and appreciate the stuff that is served rather than be crtical about it. If movies such as A wednesday, Firaakh etc start getting better exposure than may be this big producers and directors will start making better cinema. I guess that is the only way Indian cinema will move ahead. It is as much our responsibility to appreciate good cinema as it is of Bollywood to make them.

Entertainment is as much necessary as serious cinema, but good entertainment is what is lacking in cinema these days. Regarding KJo's attempt at terrorism, again I am not expecting a master piece, but will hold back my comment until the movie comes out. It will definetly have its fair share of candy floss as usual, but I sincerely do hope his attempt is better than his previous ones and is not a typical gora is bad chants.

I can't be bothered to write more about Karan Lafunga...😆( I was watching this british comedy sitcom that has started, its on the Indian call centre culture; its bloody hilarious. They just had Chunky Pandey in it today playing an actor and he was called Chunky Lafunga..😆 hence the name.)

He is one of the worst filmakers in my opinion who just likes to dramatize films. If he really wanted to make a realistic film based on terrorism, why is there even a female lead such as Kareena wearing designer outfits? Everyone should watch Black And White. It was not a great film but it was a good film based on terrorists and their anguish.

he does tend to go overboard on these things but that's because it is in demand... going by the response his movies get, i can't blame the guy... i'm sure he is capable of doing good work...

Certain films are watched just for the fun of it but if one is going to take a film seriously in all aspects, Karan Johar is a terrible film maker because his films are out of reality. Farah Khan's OSO was an entertaining film and it released during Diwali, a period in which everybody wants to have fun and I honestly had fun watching it but if one scans the film in totality, it's HORRIBLE.

Originally posted by: pksanam

he does tend to go overboard on these things but that's because it is in demand... going by the response his movies get, i can't blame the guy... i'm sure he is capable of doing good work...

but failure of good movies like A Wednesday and Aamir (to name a few) only shows that mainstream audience still does not go for such movies... although, i liked both these movies because not only did they have a great message but they were entertaining to watch... whereas some movies which have supposedly good message tend not to entertain... so it's about striking the right balance...

i'm guilty of that too because i like to watch movies for fun... if they have a message, it's great but they should be able to entertain... if it is a boring movie despite having a good subject, it turns out to be a bad movie... last example of that would be Heaven On Earth... it was a good subject but the way they portrayed it went over my head...

as long as majority of audience will go for the movie, we will continue to get such movies... unfortunately for most of us, the directors/producers are in it for the money.... so while they do want to make good movies, the commercial success is also kept in mind, i feel...

and one should never take entertainment on its face value... many movies are quite stupid and i feel not even correct in their depiction or go overboard in their depiction... don't think it should be taken too seriously... afterall, it is a piece of fiction....

[quote=*Huma*]I think the blame of movies such as Dostana being hits doesn't lie solely upon the director/producers but on the public too. Its as much the audiences fault, actually may be more who watch and appreciate the stuff that is served rather than be crtical about it. If movies such as A wednesday, Firaakh etc start getting better exposure than may be this big producers and directors will start making better cinema. I guess that is the only way Indian cinema will move ahead. It is as much our responsibility to appreciate good cinema as it is of Bollywood to make them.[/quote]

completely agree... haven't watched firaakh though...

I completely agree on the bolded parts, see like you mentioned that majority of the directors are in it to make money and not to spread social awareness, and rightly so. But again the matter in question here is that shouldn't public sensibilities not taken in to consideration. As in Dostana, yes I agree the movie was entertaining and fun to watch, but at the price of what. I am sure that gay people did not take it in an offensive manner, but shouldn't the producer/director have given that a thought. Where has their morality gone?? I am all for fun & frolic cinema, but it shouldn't be done to an expense of hurting or demeaning anything or anybody. And if a certain topic is being used in a comical fashion, it should be ensured that it is made and projected in such a manner that it does not hurt anybody's feelings.

Movies are made to entertain the audiences, but I guess it differs on the individual preferences of what they count as entertaining. I don't think every movie should give a message, coz that would just become plain boring then.😆 I guess every director has their way of film making, KJo is very different from the likes of Mahesh Bhatt for instance. If he ended up making a movie on the lines of Bhatts, then I would be shocked. So I guess to each its own. But I sincerely do hope that he does treat the subject of terrorism and autism in the right manner.

Heaven on Earth, I have not seen, I guess for some reason it just was not very appealing to me. So I have no idea about the subject, but you are right that its the treatment of the subject in the movie that matters. Firaakh is a good movie, its based around the Gujarat riot. Parzania is another good movie that was yet again based around the riots. I know many people prefer to stay away from such movies, as they are based around the reality and prefer to get away from such subjects, and understandbly so. But there are other movies such as Oye lucky lucky oye for instance who are different and yet don't get the right appreciation. Any how, without B'wood what would we watch...so in the end hail bollywood.😆

Fatty & PkSonam, interesting take, and I absolutely agree, that the audience is also at fault. They fuel the production of such garbage, and then complain about the quality of films. At the end of the day, K-Jo is just a businessman. His main objective is to get bums on the theater seat. It's not art, it's showbiz.

I have no problems with fluffy, conventional, cliched and shallow films. At the end of the day, we all look to be entertained, and everyone is entertained in a different way. I wouldn't have a problem with K-Jo if the sole purpose of him making films was for sheer entertainment. My problem lies in the fact, as Huma put to it, that he tries to act like a Messiah for the minorities, always on some sort of moral crusade, preaching and forcing a message down our throats.I rather have him send out no message at all, than to send out one utterly retrograde variety of it.

You'd be lying to yourself if you think that these films have no affect on audiences or the society. What image of gays do we hold after watch this film? That they're sad and pathetic and like to dress in drag?

If K-Jo is only doing what the audience wants him to do, then he should stick to it, and not venture outside the narrow radius of his abilities as a filmmaker. I have no problems with him producing shallow, pompous garbage, but I have a problem with him trying to objectify mature and sensitive topics such as homosexuality and terrorism.