code of conduct - Page 11

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sarandha thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
This is a public forum and without being part of any group , i reserve my right to comment on things on a case by case and issue by issue basis, without being constrained by whether the majority opinion goes with it or not. i shall continue to stand for what i believe and protest where i feel a protest needs to be made . This does not mean that i disrespect others opinions - so i shall refrain from commenting back to individual barbs - they dont affect me
Edited by sarandha - 13 years ago
mansimat thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
Well the reason there is no such word for men is becoz we haven't seen any rampant number of men in the position of a mistress. The numbers are stacked highly against the women here unfortunately. So etymology took its course and developed a word for the female counterpart. We might have many words in the English dictionary that could be specific for male but not for female. This is part of the engligh language. Words are made out of necessity of usage, why that necessity came about is not a consideration of the dictionary.

On the gauri issue, I think repeatedly I as well as other forum members have pointed that they condemn her actions, not just her mistress status. I think most people are intelligent enough to understand that if a woman is in the position of a mistress and is either abused or is not vile or maybe her circumstances forced her to be this way, they would not condemn her like Gauri. Maybe if the plot was different and Gauri was actually only a victim, people or at least I would call her a mistress but not condemn her for it.
Hence I don't understand why you would think that "all woman who fit the bill of a mistress are necessarily woman like gauri and hence have to be condemned like that ." How does that come in the picture?

If your grouse is against society in general and the patriarchal set-up, then its a different conversation all together. Male domination in the world is a reality and there is also a good amount of historical context as to why it came about. That's a very serious complex issue and not calling a mistress, a mistress is not going to change the current social set up.

If you personally feel so strongly about this, then I think the best approach is to self-moderate. You can of course raise your opinions and protest, but it might be a lost cause because of the alternate opinion of most other people here. As you are part of the society with your rights of expression, opinion and free thinking. So are others. And you can't take away from them, what they can't take away from you. That's the context when I said hypocrisy in one of my posts. But let me assure that I am not calling you one or making a personal remark, I made it as an observation.

I am of course pro-feminist and women's rights. But not against freedom of speech and expression.

Even I had a great time on this discussion. In fact the more I talk to people whose opinion differs, the more I am able to understand human nature and it helps me have a more wholesome perspective over issues. Something like a 360 degree view 😊

Thanks
Mansi

Originally posted by: sarandha

@manismat

I understand what you are saying also but i feel since all of us our products of certain histories , the way the use or abuse of a word evolves is not free of its historical connotations. As has been pointed out, no such word exists for a man and the reason behind that lies in a patriarchal society whose history constitutes it in a particular way where men were and still are in a relation of power over woman. The way mistress is understood in many places comes much closer to rakhail - and in a feudal society like ours the status of such women remains horrifying - and rich men still continue to have mistresses.
I just feel that while Gauri's character ofcourse is open to being criticised and understood differently by different people, the term mistress didnt really fit her situation as i understood it - because why the term mistress could be offensive is for reasons which are very seperate from the way in which she is reviled for her character traits - and it is because she is shown as a woman with strong negative characteristics , the use of this term may offend people because it might be taken to imply that all woman who fit the bill of a mistress are necessarily woman like gauri and hence have to be condemned like that . If you feel a woman who has been manipulative needs to be abused and you use a term like mistress while conveying these feelings, its a moral judgement not merely on the negative character traits but also a linking of what's wrong with her as a person simply with the action of her living with a man who had had a child marriage. This mixing up of 2 different aspects of any criticism one might have of G's conduct is what made so many people uncomfortable. I remain uncomfortable at the use of the term mistress for such actions because it is not a gender neutral term - reflects a certain bias which exists in society aginst such women.
In any case that was my opinion, i would not have gone into etymology and history if people hadnt pointed out the dictionary meaning, the context etc. I had no intention of either demonstrating anything nor was it meant to take a high moral ground . However, the use of certain terms in public contexts and discourses against woman on grounds of morality continues to disturb me - and i was compelled to make these points almost despite myself. And i reserve the right to do so, because i am also part of this society and these things affect the space we are all allowed as women and as individuals.
However i do understand and even agree with some of the points you made, just feel we were both approaching this issue from a different perspectives - both of which raise valid points.

Edited by mansimat - 13 years ago
jiya25 thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
Definitions of mistress
a woman, other than the spouse, with whom a married individual has a continuing sexual relationship (as per wikipedia)
A woman who has a continuing sexual relationship with a usually married man who is not her husband and from whom she generally receives material support. (as per free online dictionary)
a woman who has a continuing extramarital sexual relationship with a man (dictionary.com)
a woman other than his wife with whom a married man has a continuing sexual relationship (webster dictionary)
I think apart from the fact that in recent times gauri did not recieve material support from jagya, in everyother way, she is indeed a mistress...she would be a mistress even if she was the nicest and the most positive person on the face of this earth...
sreevask thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
I don't think Gauri shall be called a mistress...she is just an illegal wife... till ja divorce...after that their relationship is live-in...undocumented...
However whether it is justified or not, as long the usage of the word mistress hurts...we can switch over to other options...such as Concubine...kept...(all 3 - mistress , Concubine & kept ,another one avarudha stri) are legally approved terms used by The courts of Law in India...
We can't go by fancy names apart from the names given by The law of land...
How ever let us not forget we r putting futile efforts for not only an illegal but also an immoral woman & man...
Taliban treatment is correct for their behavior...they deserve much more...
jiya25 thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: mansimat

Well the reason there is no such word for men is becoz we haven't seen any rampant number of men in the position of a mistress. The numbers are stacked highly against the women here unfortunately. And so etymology came about and devised the word 'mistress'.

i agree that there should be a male word for mistress...
few i can think of
boy-toy
kept man
poolboy
gigilo
man with a sugar mama...
can't think of any other...
sreevask thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
Man is called as paramour in such a relationship by indian laws...
mansimat thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago

Sorry for the re-post.

Edited by mansimat - 13 years ago
SRKLuvr thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: Manasi_16

Sanaya, let us not even get into value system Gauri has, or the lack of it thereof. Ignorance is not always bliss...certainly not in case of the law. Just bcoz J_G didn't know the legality of Jagya's bal vivah doesn't mean the law is new!!!

Much as I try not to use that word for Gauri, what a few people feel & think is not gonna change the legal situation. A woman who stays with an married man is called a mistress, or in hindi doosri aurat. It is MEANT to be derogatory, coz her act is being condemned. Now why men are not called by any such name...that is a shortcoming of our languages and societies. But we never mince our words while talking of Jagya.

If gauri had married Jagya & stayed in mumbai, i don't think anyone would have objected to it. But the way she used to flaunt her 'husband' in Anandi's face, obviously we are not gonna think well of her isn't it?

But Manasi ji this IS a new law😆 It was only made in 2005 if my sources are correct. I don't know what year this serial is running in but step into villages in India where these child marriages happen and ask how many of these people know about this new law. Gauri thought she legally married Jogia as they went to court. Now even I in my wildest dreams never thought there existed such a law to make these child marriages legal 2 years after the couple attains adulthood. And you still need to get them registered. Now did anyone expect that after court marriage, mandir marriage, sindoor and mangalsutra that Gauri was really going to say OH I just found out our marriage is not legal so until you divorce Anandi Im not gonna stay with you? Jogia had left his family for Gauri. He had no one anymore except her. I bet that would have been the meanest thing Gauri could ever have done if she did that! No, in her mind she was married and she lived like a married woman. Then everyone started calling her mistress. I would have liked to know what would people have said if there was no such law formed as yet.
731627 thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
sanya just one question tum law ki student ho
sarandha thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
At no point did i say that others cannot express their opinion niether was i imposing anything on anyone. I still hold that mistress is a historically and socially loaded term , with multiple connotations which indicate the way in which woman have been historically discriminated against and continue to be so - and some of which do not fit gauri's situation at all. And not only would i personally not use it, i also would protest against others using it against any woman irrespective of her individual character traits - whether the protest is lost or not doesnt matter to me - if anybody gets persuaded its fine , otherwise i've said what i want to say . I can hardly stop what others say -its their business, their attitude and their life - nor do i have any desire to do so if people do not see that several words - mistres, prostitute, rakhail etc - are not used by politically correct people any longer because of the way some sections of society have registered their protest against it and because of the way they have offended the sensibilities of a section of society in the manner in which they have evolved overtime. Freedom of expression by a majority cannot be used to curtail the right of a marginalised or minority group's right to dignity and their right to protest against terms which have regressive associations for them if used to describe them.
So while many people can still use the term prostitutes , others who are sensitive to their demand that the use of this word offends them because it comes imbued with certain connotations which imply a worldview which discriminates against them - have shifted to the term sex workers. Similarly for the shift to using the word dalits from using harijans and shudras as rohini points out. A politics of naming exists where some terms used to describe some activities , actions, events, people become offensive overtime and in response to protests, people stop using them and mistress is one such term - a huge literature exists on this . Its upto people in the end where they would like to be vis-a-vis all this ofcourse - they can continue to use them in anyway they want - but others can continue protesting against such use ! noone can impose any code over others but everyone can protest atleast . And the TM's trying to express her anguish over the use of such terms and her suggestion that a code of conduct be evolved does not amount to hypocrisy ! - she had made a suggestion as a public post and left it open to others to accept it or not or express their views on it. She had not imposed anything on anyone!
And my last post was a general comment - not meant for anyone in specific but a response to the other posts i saw from different people.
Edited by sarandha - 13 years ago

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